Grinnell College in Iowa just cancelled the rest of their football season

[hawkeyes87]

Hock is such a great kid and a great player....a few more concussions like the one he suffered recently and it will really affect his future. Shouldn't the first obligation be to make the game safer for the kids who play the game??

Great kid and great player, sure. But, what he did was stupid, and way more his fault than the equipment's.

Yes, give them the best equipment, but at some point the players have to be smart enough to play in a way that doesn't rely on that equipment protection.

When I drive, I don't think "I can drive like an idiot because the safety belt / airbag will probably keep me safe".

 

[DDThompson]

The game will have to radically change as we know it, or it will end. It sucks. But it's the reality. The paradigm had shifted with parents. The impact is just starting.

Okay. I’ll bite.
How is the game going to have to be radically changed?

 

[Fryowa]

I rode on an airplane last year with a guy who is developing a new helmet. I believe he lives in Ames. He said that the helmet would significantly cut down on concussions in football. He did say that the helmet is very expensive to build, which translates into a high price. He also said that it is hard to compete with the current helmet manufacturers.

With all due respect if the guy told you any of that he was most likely a crackpot.

The "I can't compete with the current manufacturers" argument doesn't hold water because if it were that revolutionary he'd be selling his idea to Riddell, Schutt, or Xenith in a New York minute.

It all boils down to the physics of a football impact and you can't change that.

If you take a brain moving 15-20 mph and stop it in the space of 3-4 inches (or almost zero when helmets hit the ground), brain damage is going to occur no matter how much padding or shock absorption there is. It's a super simple problem really, and the reason there aren't concussion-preventing helmets out there is because it can't happen in a football setting under current rules.

And it really is that simple. Medical folks have known for a really long time what the deceleration limits are for the human brain to get damaged, and the only way is to slow that deceleration down. For a football helmet that's going to mean making it the size of a beach ball, and then you have the problem of huge leverage on your neck. Until someone can modify the laws of physics, there's absolutely no way you can decelerate a brain from 20 mph to zero in the space of a few inches and not wreck it.

The only way to make it safer is to neuter the rules to the point of taking away physical contact. Myself, I think we're going to see ProBowl style rules implemented within 6-8 years followed by the rapid downfall of the sport as a whole. People like violence and that's why football is so popular.

 

[DDThompson]

I wonder what would happen if you took helmets and shoulder pads out of the game.

Probably what would happen as to why they put helmets and shoulder pads into the game.


How ‘bout getting rid of the hard shell helmet?

 

[DDThompson]

I remember reading about Wally Hilgenberg's younger generation shying away from football.

It’s almost like your saying humans are cyclical in nature.

And It’s almost like other people are saying once football was invented every college had a team and 32 NFL teams were created.

 

[Northside Hawk]

I still think football will be abolished in our lifetime. 2040 is my target date.

And in the much nearer future, I think we're going to see a long stoppage of play when the current CBA comes up for negotiation after the 2020 season. At least for the players in the current union. Player safety, and quality of life for players post retirement, are going to be huge sticking points. Perhaps big names and media heavyweights who have retired in the past ten years and are now in their forties dealing with the other side can bring their viewpoints to the table as well. Brett Favre and Peyton Manning would be good representatives.

 

[okeefe4prez]

With all due respect if the guy told you any of that he was most likely a crackpot.

The "I can't compete with the current manufacturers" argument doesn't hold water because if it were that revolutionary he'd be selling his idea to Riddell, Schutt, or Xenith in a New York minute.

It all boils down to the physics of a football impact and you can't change that.

If you take a brain moving 15-20 mph and stop it in the space of 3-4 inches (or almost zero when helmets hit the ground), brain damage is going to occur no matter how much padding or shock absorption there is. It's a super simple problem really, and the reason there aren't concussion-preventing helmets out there is because it can't happen in a football setting under current rules.

And it really is that simple. Medical folks have known for a really long time what the deceleration limits are for the human brain to get damaged, and the only way is to slow that deceleration down. For a football helmet that's going to mean making it the size of a beach ball, and then you have the problem of huge leverage on your neck. Until someone can modify the laws of physics, there's zero way you can decelerate a brain from 20 mph to zero in the space of a few inches and not wreck it.

The only way to make it safer is to neuter the rules to the point of taking away physical contact. Myself, I think we're going to see ProBowl style rules implemented within 6-8 years followed by the rapid downfall of the sport as a whole. People like violence and that's why football is so popular.

Yep, same problem they have in auto racing. They've stopped the basilar skull fractures by using a HANS device that ties a guy's head to his shoulders and that has eliminated almost all deaths in racing, but they can't stop the deceleration brain trauma when someone goes from 100 to 0 in a couple of feet.

 

[HuckFinn]

Yeah our 7th and 8th yrs were separate just like your saying. Our HS had like 4 kids doubling up playing both JV and Varsity though. The classes below me were pretty small and didn't have enough. And they'd suit up Varsity but never really play.

Yup that Wing T was interesting. We weren't all that great at it but we had fun.

Could you fold up your helmet and put it in your pocket?

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Could you fold up your helmet and put it in your pocket?

HA nope it was the hardest of hard plastics. Some guys had those neck rolls and high shoulder pads. good ole days

 

[dagdaj]

With all due respect if the guy told you any of that he was most likely a crackpot.

The "I can't compete with the current manufacturers" argument doesn't hold water because if it were that revolutionary he'd be selling his idea to Riddell, Schutt, or Xenith in a New York minute.

It all boils down to the physics of a football impact and you can't change that.

If you take a brain moving 15-20 mph and stop it in the space of 3-4 inches (or almost zero when helmets hit the ground), brain damage is going to occur no matter how much padding or shock absorption there is. It's a super simple problem really, and the reason there aren't concussion-preventing helmets out there is because it can't happen in a football setting under current rules.

And it really is that simple. Medical folks have known for a really long time what the deceleration limits are for the human brain to get damaged, and the only way is to slow that deceleration down. For a football helmet that's going to mean making it the size of a beach ball, and then you have the problem of huge leverage on your neck. Until someone can modify the laws of physics, there's absolutely no way you can decelerate a brain from 20 mph to zero in the space of a few inches and not wreck it.

The only way to make it safer is to neuter the rules to the point of taking away physical contact. Myself, I think we're going to see ProBowl style rules implemented within 6-8 years followed by the rapid downfall of the sport as a whole. People like violence and that's why football is so popular.

TDC right there. Dead nuts on.
However....hockey....has been able to mitigate *some* of the violence. And are continuing to do so. They've eliminated a lot of dirty play that results in injury, by changing the spirit of the game...and an increasingly heavy fist. They're biggest problem is, they're trying to tread a fine line between zero tolerance and benefit of the doubt. Which just makes them appear to favor teams/players. It would not shock me to see them move to more zero tolerance and add more cameras to catch dirty action behind the play. It's made the game faster and more strategic. And only really crusty old violent people grump about it. And there's still fights.

I looove college football. It will hurt to see it change. But it's going to. The NFL needs to get in front of this. It's up to them. They have to drive the show and find a way. It will be a huge hit to their bottom line. But they risk going the way of boxing....or...WWE/F type wrestling. Which, while still huge, is nothing like it was. The big difference with wrestling or boxing...or what have you.....
They can handle a drop in revenues. They just "make less money".

But if the NFL starts making "less money"...the team owners lose "millions" in ownership value. And Kroenke and Jones will never finish paying off their multi-billion dollar stadiums. And the debt may be unbearable, or even crush them. And cities/counties/states....that are increasingly gunshy about kicking in millions to these rich jerks will all but bow out. Or be left on the hook just like Kroenke. NFL teams have done what many "too big to fail" companies did in the 90s and early oughts. "Grow grow grow grow"....by spending on current valuation assuming that value will always continue to grow. People did it with houses too. We all know how well that worked out.

There's so many aspects of ripple effect...or domino effect....whatever you wanna call it. That the entire thing could implode as we know it. And before you know it, "homecoming" centers around a soccer game. Or a robotics competition. Or a gaming showdown between your crosstown rival.

 

[blubberhawk]

Okay. I’ll bite.
How is the game going to have to be radically changed?

always amazed at parents keeping their kids out of football but have no problems putting them behind the wheel at age 15 (school permits) and 16. I worried a helluva lot more about my kids out at night than on the football field.

 

[HuckFinn]

HA nope it was the hardest of hard plastics. Some guys had those neck rolls and high shoulder pads. good ole days

I did have a single bar face mask and a molded mouth guard. And, we actually ran the single wing on occasion, though the wing T and a 6-3-2 defense. NW Iowa small town.

 

[vegashawki]

It's simple, really. Take the hitting out of the game. Two-hand touch. Blockers cannot use their hands or lower their shoulders. No crackbacks. Dline rushers cannot tackle blockers by lowering their shoulders. Dline rushers cannot use their hands.

First downs are now 20 yards. Field goalposts are now 3 yards apart.

It would be a weird game.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Let's say that 280 lbs guy could run a 5.5 second 40 15 years ago.

At today's speed, that guy can hit you with 8296.1317005 N•m/s. 15 years ago he could hit you with 6938.597140999999 N•M/s. That's nearly 1000 ft - lbs / s more. That's 2 F150s per second worth of power more.

Ok...I'm still doing the math in my head...but if I understand you correctly...you are reinforcing my point. LOL.

 

[ChosenChildren]

With all due respect if the guy told you any of that he was most likely a crackpot.

The "I can't compete with the current manufacturers" argument doesn't hold water because if it were that revolutionary he'd be selling his idea to Riddell, Schutt, or Xenith in a New York minute.

It all boils down to the physics of a football impact and you can't change that.

If you take a brain moving 15-20 mph and stop it in the space of 3-4 inches (or almost zero when helmets hit the ground), brain damage is going to occur no matter how much padding or shock absorption there is. It's a super simple problem really, and the reason there aren't concussion-preventing helmets out there is because it can't happen in a football setting under current rules.

And it really is that simple. Medical folks have known for a really long time what the deceleration limits are for the human brain to get damaged, and the only way is to slow that deceleration down. For a football helmet that's going to mean making it the size of a beach ball, and then you have the problem of huge leverage on your neck. Until someone can modify the laws of physics, there's absolutely no way you can decelerate a brain from 20 mph to zero in the space of a few inches and not wreck it.

The only way to make it safer is to neuter the rules to the point of taking away physical contact. Myself, I think we're going to see ProBowl style rules implemented within 6-8 years followed by the rapid downfall of the sport as a whole. People like violence and that's why football is so popular.

I agree with everything you are saying. I will say that the guy was no crackpot and he was starting to gain traction with the helmet manufacturers. Their whole goal was to bring the cost down so that the Division I schools would buy the helmet. For all I know, his company is now selling the helmet he was talking about.

He never said that the helmet was completely safe; he did say that the prototype would reduce the severity of the concussion.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Grinnell does have a storied football history:

From the Washington Post:

So does the school’s location, Hamilton said. It’s hard to recruit football players from all over the nation when they can’t find the village of Grinnell, Iowa, on a map.

And yet the sport has a deep history at the school. In 1889, less than a quarter-century after the Civil War ended, the University of Iowa issued a challenge for a football game, the first college contest played west of the Mississippi River. Grinnell answered the call. The Pioneers whipped the Hawkeyes, 24-0. The heritage has remained important.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/spor...football-team-forfeits-remaining-seven-games/

 

[ChosenChildren]

With all due respect if the guy told you any of that he was most likely a crackpot.

The "I can't compete with the current manufacturers" argument doesn't hold water because if it were that revolutionary he'd be selling his idea to Riddell, Schutt, or Xenith in a New York minute.

It all boils down to the physics of a football impact and you can't change that.

If you take a brain moving 15-20 mph and stop it in the space of 3-4 inches (or almost zero when helmets hit the ground), brain damage is going to occur no matter how much padding or shock absorption there is. It's a super simple problem really, and the reason there aren't concussion-preventing helmets out there is because it can't happen in a football setting under current rules.

And it really is that simple. Medical folks have known for a really long time what the deceleration limits are for the human brain to get damaged, and the only way is to slow that deceleration down. For a football helmet that's going to mean making it the size of a beach ball, and then you have the problem of huge leverage on your neck. Until someone can modify the laws of physics, there's absolutely no way you can decelerate a brain from 20 mph to zero in the space of a few inches and not wreck it.

The only way to make it safer is to neuter the rules to the point of taking away physical contact. Myself, I think we're going to see ProBowl style rules implemented within 6-8 years followed by the rapid downfall of the sport as a whole. People like violence and that's why football is so popular.

Here is the information on the helmet company: Name: Cross Over LLC. The guy I talked to was named Jerry Janson. They are joint venturing with Iowa State University, I believe.

 

[ChosenChildren]

With all due respect if the guy told you any of that he was most likely a crackpot.

The "I can't compete with the current manufacturers" argument doesn't hold water because if it were that revolutionary he'd be selling his idea to Riddell, Schutt, or Xenith in a New York minute.

It all boils down to the physics of a football impact and you can't change that.

If you take a brain moving 15-20 mph and stop it in the space of 3-4 inches (or almost zero when helmets hit the ground), brain damage is going to occur no matter how much padding or shock absorption there is. It's a super simple problem really, and the reason there aren't concussion-preventing helmets out there is because it can't happen in a football setting under current rules.

And it really is that simple. Medical folks have known for a really long time what the deceleration limits are for the human brain to get damaged, and the only way is to slow that deceleration down. For a football helmet that's going to mean making it the size of a beach ball, and then you have the problem of huge leverage on your neck. Until someone can modify the laws of physics, there's absolutely no way you can decelerate a brain from 20 mph to zero in the space of a few inches and not wreck it.

The only way to make it safer is to neuter the rules to the point of taking away physical contact. Myself, I think we're going to see ProBowl style rules implemented within 6-8 years followed by the rapid downfall of the sport as a whole. People like violence and that's why football is so popular.

Cross Over LLC is part of the Startup Factory at Iowa State. They are still designing the prototype helmet, I believe.

That is all that I know. You should look into it to see for yourself if the new helmet has merit.

Janson was a former coach at Ohio State.

 

[ModebaSan]

when I played high school football I played on offense and defense. Top it off with I walked 20 miles in snow storms to school as well!

Uphill both ways.

 

[ModebaSan]

I played HS football in the 70’s, and the way I hit opposing players back in the day isn’t allowed these days. I would of been called for targeting on every play. I played with reckless abandon. As bad as my body feels these days, I can fully appreciate what they are doing to make the game safer. I can just imagine how bad some of the guys that I hurt are feeling these days. Looking back, I kinda feel bad about it. I hit a RB from Saydel so hard, I split his pelvic bone in half. Poor guy spent the rest of the season in a wheelchair. To this day I regret being that brutal. I hurt a lot of fellas back then and I can’t help feeling remorse.