Georgia and their TB woes...

[cmhawks99]

I’ve mentioned it before and honestly it really doesn’t matter because we ain’t Georgia and just like you, it’s Iowa I’m worried about, but they too have had horrendous Tb problems over the years. This is just the tip of the iceberg. I don’t remember them all; but they have lots of issues. I only mention because it sometimes its nice to realize we aren’t alone.

Richt, Georgia lose another tailback, which has become an every-day occurence, it seems - Yahoo! Sports

 

[Hawkfromnorwalk]

AGRBHG

 

[PCHawk]

misery loves company

 

[cmhawks99]

misery loves company

Yes, yes it does....

 

[hawkfan1319]

Saw this on CFL ...unreal haha. Well at least someone knows how we feel.

 

[Hal9000]

Running Back is probably the most easily replaceable position. Often times a TR FR or Transfer can come in and do the job just as well as the previous guy barring outstanding circumstances.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Running Back is probably the most easily replaceable position. Often times a TR FR or Transfer can come in and do the job just as well as the previous guy barring outstanding circumstances.

Ah yeah, riiiiiggght. There is a big difference between being serviceable and executing the position versus being a very good running back who has a profound impact on the game.

I give you a Shonn Greene vs. Marcus Coker comparison. At any point last year, did you feel Marcus Coker was a game changer...or at any point he could make the spectacular play to change momentum, field position, etc. No, he was mostly three yards and a cloud of dust. Even during the Minnesota game, he couldn't house any of those runs...and we settled or missed field goals...yet he had 250 yards so your first thought is how great he was. He didn't change that game. From my perspective, he always seemed to get the least amount of yards possible out of every run. I just watched the Michigan game again, and although we won, Coker couldn't get one yard in short yardage situations twice at critical times in that game. The oline got push, he just made the wrong move to get the yard...because his vision was terrible.

Now, contrast that with Greene. Teams game planned to stop him, he made the spectacular runs, hell, he made some spectacular 5 yard runs. Most importantly, he housed runs and he often made yards when there was nothing there. In stark contrast to Coker, he ALWAYS seemed to get the most possible yards out of every carry.

Not since the Wegher/Robinson combination, have we had backs that could help change a game...and provide the type of plays that kept drives going and put the kind of pressure on the defense that good backs do.

To me, this is what has been sorely missing in our offense the past two years. We don't have a game changer or special player at RB. Coker was not it and people in the know, understood it.

 

[cmhawks99]

Ah yeah, riiiiiggght. There is a big difference between being serviceable and executing the position versus being a very good running back who has a profound impact on the game.

I give you a Shonn Greene vs. Marcus Coker comparison. At any point last year, did you feel Marcus Coker was a game changer...or at any point he could make the spectacular play to change momentum, field position, etc. No, he was mostly three yards and a cloud of dust. Even during the Minnesota game, he couldn't house any of those runs...and we settled or missed field goals...yet he had 250 yards so your first thought is how great he was. He didn't change that game. From my perspective, he always seemed to get the least amount of yards possible out of every run. I just watched the Michigan game again, and although we won, Coker couldn't get one yard in short yardage situations twice at critical times in that game. The oline got push, he just made the wrong move to get the yard...because his vision was terrible.

Now, contrast that with Greene. Teams game planned to stop him, he made the spectacular runs, hell, he made some spectacular 5 yard runs. Most importantly, he housed runs and he often made yards when there was nothing there. In stark contrast to Coker, he ALWAYS seemed to get the most possible yards out of every carry.

Not since the Wegher/Robinson combination, have we had backs that could help change a game...and provide the type of plays that kept drives going and put the kind of pressure on the defense that good backs do.

To me, this is what has been sorely missing in our offense the past two years. We don't have a game changer or special player at RB. Coker was not it and people in the know, understood it.

I’m not going to attack this with my typical zest. You obviously think it’s a valid argument and it is as much opinion as anything so I’ll never convince you otherwise. I will however point out that Shonn Greene did not get the one yard we needed to ice that MSU game (ala a game changer) Marcus Coker was in FACT a game changer in the Missouri insight bowl game and he did average 5.1 yards per carry.

Also Greene couldn’t lead us to a win vs NW or Illinois, so in short… no I’m not convinced the diff in Shonn Green vs Coker is all that valid. Running teams in college and the NFL both, replace running backs from year to year with solid results. No Coker was not yet Shonn Greene and I do agree he was too tentative at times & left yards on the field. He was however a very good Rber and we have had several very good Rbers.

And as far as these people in the "know", who are they......the people in the "know" I’m aware of were pretty appreciative of Coker.


PS....I wanted to add, I’m not trying to challenge you I just don't agree.....I have also always thought "taking it to the house" is "fan stuff" and not nearly as important as consistent hard running, with good handles and health. Chris Johnson fell of the Map and Emmitt Smith didn’t “house” many Td’s.

 

[Hawksel]

Also Greene couldn’t lead us to a win vs NW or Illinois, so in short… no I’m not convinced the diff in Shonn Green vs Coker is all that valid.

To be fair, Shonn Greene was dominating that NW game before he got a headshot from a NW linebacker and got knocked out of the game.

Also, although I'd agree with his original post that I'd take Greene over Coker 10 times out of 10 due to Greene being that rare combination of both powerful and dynamic, but I disagree that Coker couldn't change a game. I would have loved it if he could have been on the team this year.

Interesting random observation, Georgia and Iowa both have chronic running back problems. Mark Richt and Kirk Ferentz are both accused of being underachievers in their respective conferences. I'm not sure if there is a connection there, but it does seem like an interesting point of commonality.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

ah ok, I know you aren't actually thinking Coker was anywhere near the Doak Walker Award winner in ability...so you haven't lost all credibility...just most of it. Shonn Greene would have had 2000 yards last year...seriously, I'm not kidding. He was that much better than Coker...Coker doesn't even belong in the same sentence. Greene was the best running back in the country his junior year, Coker wasn't even the best in his conference by a long shot last year and he would have sat on the bench for three or four teams in the conference.

So breaking long runs for TD's is "fan stuff' and not as important as consistent hard running. You are a moron. So that's why speed is so unimportant in the college and pro games. Gee I didn't know that. It's not important as "running hard"? I can run hard knucklehead, but I can't juke and outrun great athletes...so I don't get multi million dollar contracts.

Even Superman fails once in awhile and I don't think anyone in their right mind would fault Greene for not getting the yard against MSU. It was a complete blown assignment and he had no where to go...he was committed to the hole. That being said, he was our offense that day, so I'll give him a break for not winning that battle with the LB.

He wasn't in the game on the crucial drive against NW due to a concussion, so I'll give him a pass there also...but he was our offense that day also. Illinois, well, I don't have an answer there, but he had over a 100 yards rushing and I don't believe anyone would say he was the reason we lost that game.

I've heard at least three analysts talk about Cokers lack of vision and cutting ability. It's not imagined. He missed alot of holes. Trust me, Emmitt Smith didn't get caught that much from behind, and he had long runs for TDS.

 

[cmhawks99]

ah ok, I know you aren't actually thinking Coker was anywhere near the Doak Walker Award winner in ability...so you haven't lost all credibility...just most of it. Shonn Greene would have had 2000 yards last year...seriously, I'm not kidding. He was that much better than Coker...Coker doesn't even belong in the same sentence. Greene was the best running back in the country his junior year, Coker wasn't even the best in his conference by a long shot last year and he would have sat on the bench for three or four teams in the conference.

So breaking long runs for TD's is "fan stuff' and not as important as consistent hard running. You are a moron. So that's why speed is so unimportant in the college and pro games. Gee I didn't know that. It's not important as "running hard"? I can run hard knucklehead, but I can't juke and outrun great athletes...so I don't get multi million dollar contracts.

Even Superman fails once in awhile and I don't think anyone in their right mind would fault Greene for not getting the yard against MSU. It was a complete blown assignment and he had no where to go...he was committed to the hole. That being said, he was our offense that day, so I'll give him a break for not winning that battle with the LB.

He wasn't in the game on the crucial drive against NW due to a concussion, so I'll give him a pass there also...but he was our offense that day also. Illinois, well, I don't have an answer there, but he had over a 100 yards rushing and I don't believe anyone would say he was the reason we lost that game.

I've heard at least three analysts talk about Cokers lack of vision and cutting ability. It's not imagined. He missed alot of holes. Trust me, Emmitt Smith didn't get caught that much from behind, and he had long runs for TDS.

No reason for us to continue here.....Emmitt Smith was not very fast and ran a best time of 4.6 after 3 months of speed training before the combine. He was one of the very best ever and took very, very, very few to the house.

 

[DDHawkeye]

If Greene had chosen to stay for the 2009 season, we would have completely dominated teams and could have won the national championship that year. Greene was much better than Wegher, Robinson, and Coker. It's not even close.

 

[cmhawks99]

If Greene had chosen to stay for the 2009 season, we would have completely dominated teams and could have won the national championship that year. Greene was much better than Wegher, Robinson, and Coker. It's not even close.

Don’t believe that’s the argument, but let’s attack that logic……That 2008 team was one of the very most talented teams we have ever fielded, yet with Shonn Greene who “is” the best back we have had, we still lost 4 games. I also remember in 2009 Wehger “housed” one that got called back vs NW on a shaky call so really I don’t know what to say about that game…I won’t guarantee we’d have won with Greene, I honestly can’t believe football fans even say things like that. Its speculative, silly and a loser’s arguement. I’d have thought we’d have won more games in 2010, but we didn’t. Hell I'd have thgt we’d have won more games in 2008, but again we did not!!!

I’d have thgt Greene would go higher in the draft than Donald Brown, Knowshon Moreno and Beanie Wells but he didn’t. I’d have thought he’d have “housed” more TDs and been more dominant, but he hasn’t been…..

I’d have thought speed would mean more at TB and Rb than it seems to in the NFL, but it still doesn’t. Larry Fitzgerald among others have (meaning the best of the best) run 4.5 to 4.7’s….while the speed burners often disappear, sans Calvin Johnson of course.

Hell Arian Foster ran a 4.71 at his Pro day….

Now the vision thing I get and quite frankly he was a sophomore and he still had plenty to learn, but the Giants and Patties and Packers, et al don’t have a battalion of Rbers taking it to the house. It is one of the most over rated things in football. Catching the damn ball and making 1st downs and holding on to it…..that’s the key.

And no amounts of calling me a moron or a knucklehead will change that…

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Don’t believe that’s the argument, but let’s attack that logic……That 2008 team was one of the very most talented teams we have ever fielded, yet with Shonn Greene who “is†the best back we have had, we still lost 4 games. I also remember in 2009 Wehger “housed†one that got called back vs NW on a shaky call so really I don’t know what to say about that game…I won’t guarantee we’d have won with Greene, I honestly can’t believe football fans even say things like that. Its speculative, silly and a loser’s arguement. I’d have thought we’d have won more games in 2010, but we didn’t. Hell I'd have thgt we’d have won more games in 2008, but again we did not!!!

I’d have thgt Greene would go higher in the draft than Donald Brown, Knowshon Moreno and Beanie Wells but he didn’t. I’d have thought he’d have “housed†more TDs and been more dominant, but he hasn’t been…..

I’d have thought speed would mean more at TB and Rb than it seems to in the NFL, but it still doesn’t. Larry Fitzgerald among others have (meaning the best of the best) run 4.5 to 4.7’s….while the speed burners often disappear, sans Calvin Johnson of course.

Hell Arian Foster ran a 4.71 at his Pro day….

Now the vision thing I get and quite frankly he was a sophomore and he still had plenty to learn, but the Giants and Patties and Packers, et al don’t have a battalion of Rbers taking it to the house. It is one of the most over rated things in football. Catching the damn ball and making 1st downs and holding on to it…..that’s the key.

And no amounts of calling me a moron or a knucklehead will change that…

You moronic knucklehead. In 2008, Kirk Ferentz was still enamored with Jack Christianson and it cost us one of those four games at Pitt. Frankly, I don't think KF really knew what he had in Greene until we got to the Big Ten season. The other 3 losses were by a total of 8 points in 2008 and we were doing it with a new soph quarterback who had no experience. Shonn Greene was our offense...and we still were 12 points away from an undefeated season. Man, you should go watch some tape of SG...you have no idea what you are talking about. He should have received a Heisman invite...he was the most valuable player in College football that year. It was a travesty he wasn't invited to New York.

Trust me Speed is important...as is durability I'll give you that. I'm not sure you watched much of the Greene's rookie NFL season, but he kind of made a splash in the playoffs with a couple of 100 yard games...and showing the physical style he is known for. You may also want to ask the Patriots what they think of him, since he showed some speed and bruising running against them in the playoffs also. Granted, he's been running behind a seriously suspect line the past few years...so their running game isn't that great. He will be fine for another five or so years and have a nice career in the NFL. Ask the teams that drafted those guys, who they would rather have now.

As for E. Smith, in his first 12 seasons he had AT LEAST one touchdown run of at least 42 yards and several of those were in the 60 yard range, with a long of 75. I'd say he housed a few. Look at the top all time rushers; Payton, Dickerson, Smith, Dorsett, and Sanders, they all had very good speed...only Bettis and Jim Brown would be considered bruisers, and Brown (before my time) had great speed from what I understand...he would also crush you though.

I'm not sure why you would bring up Adrian Foster and Larry Fitzgerald in this conversation other to confirm your moronic knuckleheadedness.

 

[cmhawks99]

You moronic knucklehead. In 2008, Kirk Ferentz was still enamored with Jack Christianson and it cost us one of those four games at Pitt. Frankly, I don't think KF really knew what he had in Greene until we got to the Big Ten season. The other 3 losses were by a total of 8 points in 2008 and we were doing it with a new soph quarterback who had no experience. Shonn Greene was our offense...and we still were 12 points away from an undefeated season. Man, you should go watch some tape of SG...you have no idea what you are talking about. He should have received a Heisman invite...he was the most valuable player in College football that year. It was a travesty he wasn't invited to New York.

Trust me Speed is important...as is durability I'll give you that. I'm not sure you watched much of the Greene's rookie NFL season, but he kind of made a splash in the playoffs with a couple of 100 yard games...and showing the physical style he is known for. You may also want to ask the Patriots what they think of him, since he showed some speed and bruising running against them in the playoffs also. Granted, he's been running behind a seriously suspect line the past few years...so their running game isn't that great. He will be fine for another five or so years and have a nice career in the NFL. Ask the teams that drafted those guys, who they would rather have now.

As for E. Smith, in his first 12 seasons he had AT LEAST one touchdown run of at least 42 yards and several of those were in the 60 yard range, with a long of 75. I'd say he housed a few. Look at the top all time rushers; Payton, Dickerson, Smith, Dorsett, and Sanders, they all had very good speed...only Bettis and Jim Brown would be considered bruisers, and Brown (before my time) had great speed from what I understand...he would also crush you though.

I'm not sure why you would bring up Adrian Foster and Larry Fitzgerald in this conversation other to confirm your moronic knuckleheadedness.

Emmitt Smith....

164 TD's.....19 went for 10 to 19 yards...

25 went for 20 plus...or in other words 83% of his Td's were for 9 yards or less.

Interestingly enuff it’s the sign of a weak debater who calls people names. I also knew you’d try and blame coaching for the 2008 season and yes I watched Greene in his signature 3 game stretch….anything else, because you are all wet friend…..lol

 

[Dominate]

You moronic knucklehead. In 2008, Kirk Ferentz was still enamored with Jack Christianson and it cost us one of those four games at Pitt. Frankly, I don't think KF really knew what he had in Greene until we got to the Big Ten season. The other 3 losses were by a total of 8 points in 2008 and we were doing it with a new soph quarterback who had no experience. Shonn Greene was our offense...and we still were 12 points away from an undefeated season. Man, you should go watch some tape of SG...you have no idea what you are talking about. He should have received a Heisman invite...he was the most valuable player in College football that year. It was a travesty he wasn't invited to New York.

Trust me Speed is important...as is durability I'll give you that. I'm not sure you watched much of the Greene's rookie NFL season, but he kind of made a splash in the playoffs with a couple of 100 yard games...and showing the physical style he is known for. You may also want to ask the Patriots what they think of him, since he showed some speed and bruising running against them in the playoffs also. Granted, he's been running behind a seriously suspect line the past few years...so their running game isn't that great. He will be fine for another five or so years and have a nice career in the NFL. Ask the teams that drafted those guys, who they would rather have now.

As for E. Smith, in his first 12 seasons he had AT LEAST one touchdown run of at least 42 yards and several of those were in the 60 yard range, with a long of 75. I'd say he housed a few. Look at the top all time rushers; Payton, Dickerson, Smith, Dorsett, and Sanders, they all had very good speed...only Bettis and Jim Brown would be considered bruisers, and Brown (before my time) had great speed from what I understand...he would also crush you though.

I'm not sure why you would bring up Adrian Foster and Larry Fitzgerald in this conversation other to confirm your moronic knuckleheadedness.

Well said. Shonn Greene was the entire offense in 2008! Defense was talented but the Offense not so much. Without Greene Iowa would have lost 1 if Not 2 more games. Definitely think he save Iowa's arse in the game against Wiscy.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

Emmitt Smith....

164 TD's.....19 went for 10 to 19 yards...

25 went for 20 plus...or in other words 83% of his Td's were for 9 yards or less.

Interestingly enuff it’s the sign of a weak debater who calls people names. I also knew you’d try and blame coaching for the 2008 season and yes I watched Greene in his signature 3 game stretch….anything else, because you are all wet friend…..lol

First of all, it's hard to call something a debate when your position is so absurd. How can anyone think, of all things Hawkeye, that Shonn Greene wasn't a game changer in 2008. You have no clue. He changed every game he played...watch the Iowa State game...Wisconsin, Purdue, Penn State, and South Carolina. He made runs in the Iowa State and Purdue game that defied physics. Reversing field, spin moves, and absolutely punishing a DB and running right through him for a TD. Oh, and he housed three or four in those games that were huge on our way to victory. His jock was way too hot for Marcus Coker to even think about putting on.

I call you names, not out of disrespect, but just out of my incessant need to be accurate.

Lastly, I'm am being critical of KF for his insistence to stay with JC as long as he did. Everyone in HawkeyeNation felt, and as history proves, Stanzi was the better option. I think even KF would tell you his "gut feeling" was just indigestion.

 

[DDHawkeye]

First of all, it's hard to call something a debate when your position is so absurd. How can anyone think, of all things Hawkeye, that Shonn Greene wasn't a game changer in 2008. You have no clue. He changed every game he played...watch the Iowa State game...Wisconsin, Purdue, Penn State, and South Carolina. He made runs in the Iowa State and Purdue game that defied physics. Reversing field, spin moves, and absolutely punishing a DB and running right through him for a TD. Oh, and he housed three or four in those games that were huge on our way to victory. His jock was way too hot for Marcus Coker to even think about putting on.

I call you names, not out of disrespect, but just out of my incessant need to be accurate.

Lastly, I'm am being critical of KF for his insistence to stay with JC as long as he did. Everyone in HawkeyeNation felt, and as history proves, Stanzi was the better option. I think even KF would tell you his "gut feeling" was just indigestion.

I can't really add anything to this... Thanks for pwning peeps so I don't have to

 

[PCHawk]

Greene single handedly won the purdue game and when we needed a touchdown against Illinois he got it. the only problem is that bend but don't break defense doesn't work when the other team only needs a field goal.