Great quote-MJ always wants the ball in those situations-I do not have that feeling w/ Lebron. Maybe he is unselfish? I guess it will never be resolved, since they cannot be on the same court. Lebron is definitely a physical specimen and I was really impressed w/ his willingness to guard anyone he needed to. The guy was all over the court on the defensive end, guarding the post to point. Nobody else could do that.
Game 7 is a man's game
- Thread starter floydvane
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Great quote-MJ always wants the ball in those situations-I do not have that feeling w/ Lebron. Maybe he is unselfish? I guess it will never be resolved, since they cannot be on the same court. Lebron is definitely a physical specimen and I was really impressed w/ his willingness to guard anyone he needed to. The guy was all over the court on the defensive end, guarding the post to point. Nobody else could do that.
If MJ always wanted the ball, why did he pass to Paxson and Kerr with the game on the line? Must not have thought he could come through there.
woodyk1
Well-Known Member
Agreed. One of my favorite Jordan passes was to Bill Wennington in the waning seconds of Jordan's 55 point game at MSG. As much as he wanted to score, he wanted to win (a regular season game, by the way). LeBron was the only reason the Heat were even in Game 6 of the series and tied scoring the most points in a Game 7 winning effort (with Tommy Heinsohn in 1957 - a double OT game). He's good.
Many of you will not be able to digest the content (e.g., Makavelihawk), but for those who want a statistical examination of whether or not Lebron will catch MJ's success/titles, click the link http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytime...ordan/?smid=tw-fivethirtyeight&seid=auto&_r=0,
Again, pass vs. clanked shot. I will always take Jordan in these situations over James. Every day. Twice, if possible.
Agreed. One of my favorite Jordan passes was to Bill Wennington in the waning seconds of Jordan's 55 point game at MSG. As much as he wanted to score, he wanted to win (a regular season game, by the way). LeBron was the only reason the Heat were even in Game 6 of the series and tied scoring the most points in a Game 7 winning effort (with Tommy Heinsohn in 1957 - a double OT game). He's good.
Agreed. And I just really hate people who claim someone choked because of one or two plays. Did Tim Duncan choke last night? Of course not, he missed two makeable shots at the end but he was terrific up until then. Did LeBron choke in game 6? Of course not, he had a couple bad turnovers at the end but he played about 9 of the best minutes you will ever see anyone play before that in the fourth quarter. This isn't a meaningless regular season game where you can define "clutch" as the last two minutes of the game, this was an NBA finals elimination game, the entire game is a clutch situation. If LeBron doesn't play like the best player in the world in game 6, the Heat lose, that's a lot of pressure to come through under and he did.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
I'm talking about their offensive series before that one. He missed his first attempt, Bosh got the offensive rebound and Lebron nailed his second attempt to bring them within 2. Then Leonard missed a free throw and Allen knocked down a 3 to tie.
Either way you are just hating on him because you don't like him. Lebron is a stat monster. He fills up the stat sheet consistently in ways that I'm not sure any other basketball player before him has done. As of right now, he isn't as clutch as MJ but he has a lot of career left in front of him. He's just as important to his team as MJ was, and he has all the tools to continue elevating his career to the likes of MJ's. Ultimately, players of his caliber are judged by championships. If he can reach 6 or more like MJ did and continue putting up the stats he's putting up I think one could make a very valid argument that he's the best the game has ever seen. There's a long way to go before that discussion can be had.
Tim Duncan probably feels like he choked. Perhaps harsh, but I would say it is a choke when he missed a 3 ft hook shot, over a much shorter player (Battier).
Makavelihawk
Well-Known Member
That's because you have no idea what you're talking about as you've done a fantastic job of proving in this thread.
DP5555
Well-Known Member
HE SCORED 37 GOD DAMN POINTS!!! 37 PTS!!! And the only compliment you are willing to give him is about his defense. LOL come on man for once I agree with Makaveli. Stop typing.
kicker22
Well-Known Member
I'm so tired of hearing the Lebron isn't clutch argument. He makes passes and isn't taking big shots in the final seconds. The guy is aware of his limitations and has a confidence in his teammates that Jordan never had. The fact is his last two games were elimination games, NEWS BREAK the entire game is clutch, regardless of how much time is on the clock. The fact is Lebron carried his team on his back the final two games regardless of who tied the game up at the end of game 6. Where as everyone wants Lebron to take these midrange game winning shots I think they miss the fact that all he wants to do is win and has realized that there may be better shooters on the court capable of making a play in the event he passes out of a double team.
He puts up 37 pts. and 12 boards in game 7 and has a 30+ point performance (not to mention triple double) to avoid elimination in game 6. Regardless of whether he's clutch or not the fact is that they're not even in the game if he doesn't put the team on his back. Lebron is a champion whether some people like him or not, it just amazes me that some people can't realize that and give him credit for it.
Why does he have to constantly be compared to Jordan? They're completely different players who had completely different games. Jordan didn't trust his teammates the way Lebron did and as a result he "had" to be that guy to take the last shot. Lebron is comfortable putting the ball in the hands of his teammate when the game is on the line. Jordan had the opportunity to finish his career and unfortunately I think once Lebron gets that opportunity the argument of GOAT may exist, but at this time I think it's unfair to Lebron that he has to play out a career without ever being able to shake the Jordan comparisons. Just my opinion, but I think Jordan's game was motivated by his ego, where as Lebron can put his ego behind him and doesn't have to be the one taking the big shot all the time. I don't think there's much of a comparison between the two.
He puts up 37 pts. and 12 boards in game 7 and has a 30+ point performance (not to mention triple double) to avoid elimination in game 6. Regardless of whether he's clutch or not the fact is that they're not even in the game if he doesn't put the team on his back. Lebron is a champion whether some people like him or not, it just amazes me that some people can't realize that and give him credit for it.
Why does he have to constantly be compared to Jordan? They're completely different players who had completely different games. Jordan didn't trust his teammates the way Lebron did and as a result he "had" to be that guy to take the last shot. Lebron is comfortable putting the ball in the hands of his teammate when the game is on the line. Jordan had the opportunity to finish his career and unfortunately I think once Lebron gets that opportunity the argument of GOAT may exist, but at this time I think it's unfair to Lebron that he has to play out a career without ever being able to shake the Jordan comparisons. Just my opinion, but I think Jordan's game was motivated by his ego, where as Lebron can put his ego behind him and doesn't have to be the one taking the big shot all the time. I don't think there's much of a comparison between the two.
There's never been a player in league history that has been judged by the same standards LeBron has been. From day one, it was never will he be a good player in the league, it was will he be an all time great, will he be the greatest ever? That's almost an impossible thing to live up to but somehow he actually has.
The last 2 games were great for the drama anyway. The NBA got all they could ask for and then some. Only thing I wish is that Tony Parker was 100%. He clearly wasn't the same guy after hurting his hammy. But he was a gamer and tried. I'm surprised Lebron didn't guard him more through the series he locked him down pretty good weather it was because of his injury or not. Lebron is a stud there's no doubt about it. I wonder if Miami might try and send Bosh on his way. I would think for what they are paying him they could get 2 guys to give more production then what he was worth the last two playoff series.
greenrocket
Well-Known Member
Bosh's job was to keep Duncan at bay...and he did that just fine. He was so gassed from playing defense that he really never had a chance to score a lot. Pretty sure that was the gameplan anyway, at least for last night's final.
Other then the last shot Duncan missed (Bosh had nothing to do with that) Duncan the last two games was really really good. I don't think Bosh slowed him down much at all. Duncan was noticeably tired sure but maybe that's because the old guy played a ton of mins the last two games. Not so much because of Bosh. You take half of what Duncan did the last two games and who picks up the slack for them? Parker was hurt and not himself.
Duncan had 5 points in the second half and OT combined in game 6. Bosh defended him very well, Duncan is just a great basketball player, no one is going to be able to defend some of the shots he hit.
I lean towards that he was more tired then that Bosh was defending him all that well. We just disagree on that...Bosh I think is pretty overrated. If he isn't hitting open jumpers he gets because of Lebron and Wade he's about worthless. (he did get some big Orebounds though I'll give him that) But as far as what he offers to that team I think Miami can improve going forward finding away to dump his salary and getting another power forward that better compliments them
Unless they change their system, they won't find another guy who is as good of defender and an elite midrange jump shooter like Bosh. There's not many bigs out there that can defend like Bosh can. Miami is not going to improve by trading Bosh, they might save money, but it won't make them more likely to win the title.
Also, in your first sentence, those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I'm sure Duncan was tired, Bosh was making him work on both ends. He pulls big guys out on defense and they have to travel further to get back in the lane and help, that's why he's so important to the Heat's spacing.
In game six, Tim Duncan had an incredible stat line. I think he scored 25 by halftime and already had a double double. He ended up with 30 something points, he dominated the game (more early than late). Many say he is the greatest PF of all time, and I think you could argue that he's the greatest player of this closing generation. He had this performance in a clutch setting, a closeout game of the NBA finals. One of the most undeniably great players of all time.
...yet Lebron, and his performance, completely and utterly overshadows Duncan. His DOMINATION at both ends of the floor makes everyone forget about Duncan and the game he had. Think about that. That's how 'big of a deal' Lebron is. The extent to which people hate on James is absurd
...yet Lebron, and his performance, completely and utterly overshadows Duncan. His DOMINATION at both ends of the floor makes everyone forget about Duncan and the game he had. Think about that. That's how 'big of a deal' Lebron is. The extent to which people hate on James is absurd
granted I'm pretty young, so it's not like i've been watching sports for 80 years. But, I've never seen an athlete with as great of a impact/presence as Lebron James. To put it this way, compare when he's on the court versus when he's not. Take any team in the NBA, replace the worst player in their starting 5 with Lebron and that team becomes a hypothetical championship contender/favorite. The impact he makes is extraordinary. To think about the baseball stat WAR or the basketball +/- stat, I don't care what any numbers say, Lebron's influence on the game is immeasurable. He doesn't have to possess the ball, he doesn't have to be the focal player on offense or defense, yet he is still the center of attention at all times. Because he's that good. And the presence he has, physically and psychologically and etc. makes him one of the best players of all time. It makes sense that he wins so many MVPs. Because yeah, he's good, so he deserves to win the award. But he is the definition of most valuable player. If I owned a team and I had Lebron (if I owned the heat), there's no imaginable trade scenario where I accept some package in exchange for Lebron.
Now, in defense of the Lebron haters... Because he is SO good, when he falters it makes one question his mental fortitude, 'clutchness' etc.
Now, in defense of the Lebron haters... Because he is SO good, when he falters it makes one question his mental fortitude, 'clutchness' etc.
