Fry and Kirk career trajectories - similar??

[uihawk82]

We all know the history but are they the same? Are the careers the win-losses becoming about the same trajectory. Fry took over very little. Cummings always had good linemen, especially on offense, but not much else. Fry built it up and in year #3 I think he hit the jackpot. He had a great 10-11 year run with lots of wins, 3 Big titles, 3 Rose Bowls, lots of big wins. He had a couple of 10 or 9 win teams that didnt make the big bowls but they were outstanding. But then it sort of started to slide with some 6 win or even a losing record. His Banks and Dwight team of 97 was a non-called offensive PI away from beating the Natty Champs in the Big House. But those last 6-7 years were somewhat non-descript end with a really poor last season.

KF takes over little, and in year #3 has the breakthrough to the bowl, then wow, 3 10 win seasons in a row, all top 10, great, and little bump then really back in 08 and 09 with great teams and lots of pub. 2010 ended with a big bowl win agaisnt a ranked foe but it was a bit down. So from 2001-10 KF had his best run but not as good has Fry's best decade or so. Since 2011 mediocrity has set in, there was a losing record like in 06 or so, mostly avg seasons but then like in 1997 KF had 2015 and wow he can still do it. But now it is avg considering the non-conf slate.

So will trajectory be the same and will KF have another 3 or 4 win season. My bet is no. I think he knows he has two good seasons coming up and then he might retire. Both careers are at the same duration. Evy had a great 8 years or so and I wonder what he would have done staying coach longer.

Do you think the careers are very similar or not, and how so.

 

[MoseSchrute]

Ferentz had the rumors about leaving for the NFL. There were rumors about Fry leaving for the USC job. Both stayed because life in Iowa is good.

 

[HawkGold]

KF and HF both had/have good teams. Stellar teams at times. Both set culture. Fry let us believe the possibilities. KF let's us think we are only Iowa. Biggest diffs.

 

[uihawk82]

KF and HF both had/have good teams. Stellar teams at times. Both set culture. Fry let us believe the possibilities. KF let's us think we are only Iowa. Biggest diffs.

And I am not looking at fundamental differences in their coaching styles, their culture styles, I am thinking about whether KF is getting ready to hit a wall. Paterno and Bowden got to the point where they had some trouble recruiting because they were so old and had been there so long. Kids know the coaches who cant be there forever.

KF isnt a great recruiter anyway and when he hits 23 seasons at about 70 years old will kids not want to sign the dotted line to come here and maybe get caught up and disappear in a coaching change. There were a lot of players at Michigan who were well suited for Lloyd Carr's pro-style t-formation offense and standard defense who got totally lost in the shuffle when Rich Rod came in to go spread and 3-2-5 defense

 

[HawkGold]

And I am not looking at fundamental differences in their coaching styles, their culture styles, I am thinking about whether KF is getting ready to hit a wall. Paterno and Bowden got to the point where they had some trouble recruiting because they were so old and had been there so long. Kids know the coaches who cant be there forever.

KF isnt a great recruiter anyway and when he hits 23 seasons at about 70 years old will kids not want to sign the dotted line to come here and maybe get caught up and disappear in a coaching change. There were a lot of players at Michigan who were well suited for Lloyd Carr's pro-style t-formation offense and standard defense who got totally lost in the shuffle when Rich Rod came in to go spread and 3-2-5 defense

I think you overestimate the age of a coach. It's their ability. HF's final two classes were fantastic.

 

[homes]

Hayden and Kirk have had similar careers at Iowa, at least in measuring BT championships (3 vs. 2 + a West Division) and number of wins (143 v. 151) and winning percentage (60% +/- for both). Their personalities are different, so they're perceived differently by many. Hayden took over a program that was DOA, and turned it around. Kirk took over the program at a point that it was a little down, no where to the point where it was when Hayden came in, but it certainly could have taken a turn for the worse, so he deserves credit for getting it going again.

Towards the end, Hayden was not physically well, and he had lost his edge. He was ready to retire, and to his credit, he recognized it, and stepped down.

Kirk will be 66 in his 23rd year. I think he's still on his game and has some good years left. It's interesting that you've described his years since 2011 as mediocre, save for 2015. I wouldn't define them that harshly (except 2012), although, tied into another thread, I think the 5 straight bowl losses lent a different feeling about those seasons, certainly not what you'd expect to feel if bowl games are truly "meaningless", i.e., the bowl games do matter for the program and how we feel about the team and the direction it's heading.

The results weren't what we wanted this year, but I don't see that as a result of Kirk's "trajectory" heading down. My guess is he'll coach another 3 years, maybe 4.

 

[Xerxes]

Yes their careers are remarkably similar. Each took a couple years for the breakthrough season than had a great decade long run followed by a meh type of stretch. The big differences are Kirk has a much easier road because he's been in the B1G West for the last 5 seasons but he also had 2015. Fry didn't have any season like that over the last half of his career at Iowa.

The anti-Kirk crew forgets that Fry's last 7 seasons were pretty rough. Only one time did he have a winning B1G record (6-2 in 1996) during that stretch. He had 3 seasons with a losing record (1993, 1994, 1998). And Iowa took a lot of beatings. Particularly against Ohio St. Even the better teams of that group, 1996 and 1997 were overmatched against the Buckeyes.