Frans offense

[deanvogs]

Are we the only basketball team in college basketball that seems to emphasize the 15-18 ft jump shot? It is the absolute dumbest shot in all of basketball to attempt, and it seems that Fran not only allows it, but empasizes it. How many times a game do we have to watch Uthoff, Jok, Ogs, and Gesell pump fake a 3, take one dribble inside the 3 point line and hoist up a 17-19 ft jump shot? Total waste of a possession, it is the dumbest shot in all of basketball. We should either get a shot 10' and in, or take a 3. Statistically speaking you are better off shooting 30% from 3 over 20 shots than you are shooting 40% from pt range.
I was trying to find a shot chart to see the shot selections, but I couldn't find one. The motion offense that Fran choosed to run is frustrating enough.....couple that with the fact that Fran tells these kids it is ok to pull from 17 or 18 ft. all game long, it is pull your hair out frustrating. It is no wonder we don't shoot worth a damnz.

 

[JG10Hawk]

I have no problem with the occasional mid range jumper when the situation dictates it. As a numbers guy though I agree with you. The efficiency numbers say that the mid range jumper is the least effective shot in basketball. If the shot clock is running down and you need a shot and can get an open mid range shot take it. If your team is struggling to get open from 3 or in the paint, use it to create space to keep the defense honest. Outside of that it should be all 3s and shots within 12 ft the majority of the time.

The good news for Fran is that his emphasis on transition basketball is the most efficient way to score. The bad news is his teams have struggled with other efficient ways to score which are to hit the 3, feed the post, and attack the basket for close range shots in the half court offense.

 

[Jjgoiowa11]

Remember when we made
3 buckets in the 2nd half against uni??

Aye curumba IA athletics......,,,.,

 

[deanvogs]

I have no problem with the occasional mid range jumper when the situation dictates it. As a numbers guy though I agree with you. The efficiency numbers say that the mid range jumper is the least effective shot in basketball. If the shot clock is running down and you need a shot and can get an open mid range shot take it. If your team is struggling to get open from 3 or in the paint, use it to create space to keep the defense honest. Outside of that it should be all 3s and shots within 12 ft the majority of the time.

The good news for Fran is that his emphasis on transition basketball is the most efficient way to score. The bad news is his teams have struggled with other efficient ways to score which are to hit the 3, feed the post, and attack the basket for close range shots in the half court offense.

Agreed, there are times when a mid ranged (outside of 14') jumper is needed, if it is the best look at the bucket that possession. The problem is limiting low % mid range jump shots is obviously NOT stressed by Fran at all. Uthoff & Jok for sure have the green light to put up the mid range all day long. Heck Olaseni put up a 15' jump shot against N. Florida, and Woody has been taking that shot regularly.

Is it really any wonder our offensive FG numbers are so putrid? Gesell can't finish around the rim, Woody can't finish around the rim. White and Olaseni can, and Uthoff is just to timid to try to do so regularly (which he should be doing all the time, as he is pretty good around the basket with both hands). The N. Florida coach said as much in his post game presser. All you have to do is hold the Hawks for 8 seconds on the offensive end.....after that they are terrible. That is a function of the the freaking coaches strategy in not only allowing, but emphasizing a rightfully dead practice in college basketball.....mid range jumpers time and time again.

 

[FRANAMANIAC]

It's because we can't get inside because teams all sag off on defense. Again leads back to WE CANT SHOOT

 

[PCHawk]

If we would just make an average percentage of our wide open shots, our offense would be good enough that no one would be complaining about it. I do hate mid range jumper though. Ironically though, I think we actually shoot a decent percentage from their. It's our bricks from 3 and our layup skill that are killing our shoting percentage.

 

[g11]

Gabe, Woody, and Uthoff can all bang pretty well in the paint. How about actually utilizing the inside game when we typically have match ups favoring it in every game.

 

[deanvogs]

If we would just make an average percentage of our wide open shots, our offense would be good enough that no one would be complaining about it. I do hate mid range jumper though. Ironically though, I think we actually shoot a decent percentage from their. It's our bricks from 3 and our layup skill that are killing our shoting percentage.

Uthoff is 40%FG - 38% from 3, and 41% from 2.
Gesell is 34% FG - 31% from 3, and 36% from 2.

These guys aren't even shooting any better from 2 than 3.
Jok 32% FG, 32% from 3,
Clemmons 36% FG, 37% from 3
Ogs 25% FG, 26% from 3


Only 2 "shooters" are better FG% than 3 pt%. That tells me they are taking AWFUL 2 pt FG. STOP SHOOTING 18' JUMPERS. You have to shoot more than 10% points higher from 2 pt range = the points you get from 3's. If Uthoff, Gesell, Jok, Clemmons, and Ogs can't shoot 10% point better from 2 than from 3, then you DON'T LET THEM TAKE ANY SHOTS BUT 3 PT SHOTS.

It is simply math, and you are wasting possession after possession cranking up 17' jump shots. This has always been the reason why Iowa goes on such long scoring droughts.....Frans offense plays to that for some reason.

 

[clicheusername3]

Are we the only basketball team in college basketball that seems to emphasize the 15-18 ft jump shot? It is the absolute dumbest shot in all of basketball to attempt, and it seems that Fran not only allows it, but empasizes it. How many times a game do we have to watch Uthoff, Jok, Ogs, and Gesell pump fake a 3, take one dribble inside the 3 point line and hoist up a 17-19 ft jump shot? Total waste of a possession, it is the dumbest shot in all of basketball. We should either get a shot 10' and in, or take a 3. Statistically speaking you are better off shooting 30% from 3 over 20 shots than you are shooting 40% from pt range.
I was trying to find a shot chart to see the shot selections, but I couldn't find one. The motion offense that Fran choosed to run is frustrating enough.....couple that with the fact that Fran tells these kids it is ok to pull from 17 or 18 ft. all game long, it is pull your hair out frustrating. It is no wonder we don't shoot worth a damnz.

I'm not sure it's as much the offense emphasizing it as it is the defenses dictating it. Poor offensive players get dictated to.

 

[PCHawk]

Uthoff is 40%FG - 38% from 3, and 41% from 2.
Gesell is 34% FG - 31% from 3, and 36% from 2.

These guys aren't even shooting any better from 2 than 3.
Jok 32% FG, 32% from 3,
Clemmons 36% FG, 37% from 3
Ogs 25% FG, 26% from 3


Only 2 "shooters" are better FG% than 3 pt%. That tells me they are taking AWFUL 2 pt FG. STOP SHOOTING 18' JUMPERS. You have to shoot more than 10% points higher from 2 pt range = the points you get from 3's. If Uthoff, Gesell, Jok, Clemmons, and Ogs can't shoot 10% point better from 2 than from 3, then you DON'T LET THEM TAKE ANY SHOTS BUT 3 PT SHOTS.

It is simply math, and you are wasting possession after possession cranking up 17' jump shots. This has always been the reason why Iowa goes on such long scoring droughts.....Frans offense plays to that for some reason.

Good stats. They make your point impossible to argue against. I knew they would prove your point that a long 2 is a stupid shot but I didn't think they would be that bad.

 

[deanvogs]

Good stats. They make your point impossible to argue against. I knew they would prove your point that a long 2 is a stupid shot but I didn't think they would be that bad.

There is a reason why 99% of college BB teams have gone away from the mid range game.....why Fran still emphasized it is incredibly frustrating. Last year Marble saved this teams bacon and reversed all the terrible shooting #'s. This year Iowa is like 280some in effective FG%, just like they were 2 years ago. Only a NBA quality player can make bad shots good....we don't have any NBA players to save Fran's offense on this roster

 

[PCHawk]

There is a reason why 99% of college BB teams have gone away from the mid range game.....why Fran still emphasized it is incredibly frustrating. Last year Marble saved this teams bacon and reversed all the terrible shooting #'s. This year Iowa is like 280some in effective FG%, just like they were 2 years ago. Only a NBA quality player can make bad shots good....we don't have any NBA players to save Fran's offense on this roster

I wonder if he is telling them to come in for a closer shot just to break the funk. If he personally prefers the long 2 shot, it says a lot.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Want to know what concerned me last night? Besides the typical 38% shooting, I mean?

The fact that North Florida shot almost 46% overall, and 46% (12-26) from three.

This team can NOT mail it in on the defensive end if it wants to win many games in the Big Ten, because we all know the offense is lacking weapons. I hope that stat is just a fluke.

 

[WindsorHawk]

I don't know of any offense which will work if no one on the team can make outside shots. I doubt this is going to be a season long problem. But it may not be over yet...

 

[ddiction]

Uthoff is 40%FG - 38% from 3, and 41% from 2.
Gesell is 34% FG - 31% from 3, and 36% from 2.

These guys aren't even shooting any better from 2 than 3.
Jok 32% FG, 32% from 3,
Clemmons 36% FG, 37% from 3
Ogs 25% FG, 26% from 3


Only 2 "shooters" are better FG% than 3 pt%. That tells me they are taking AWFUL 2 pt FG. STOP SHOOTING 18' JUMPERS. You have to shoot more than 10% points higher from 2 pt range = the points you get from 3's. If Uthoff, Gesell, Jok, Clemmons, and Ogs can't shoot 10% point better from 2 than from 3, then you DON'T LET THEM TAKE ANY SHOTS BUT 3 PT SHOTS.

It is simply math, and you are wasting possession after possession cranking up 17' jump shots. This has always been the reason why Iowa goes on such long scoring droughts.....Frans offense plays to that for some reason.

Gesell actually seems to be pretty decent from midrange. It's those blocked shots that bring his 2PT% down. But I agree, the midrange is a terrible shot to take early in the possession. What really bugs me is when a shooter who normally take threes passes up an unguarded three, then takes a step inside the arc and puts up a long two. Somebody did that in the North Florida game, but I can't remember who it was.

 

[doclee]

When you look at numbers, as has been done in this thread, I certainly understand the wisdom of shooting 3 point shots. But, we do need to look at all of the variables, not just straight percentages. For example, you may want to consider the percentage made from "open looks" rather than contested shots. So, an open look from 15-18 feet is a better shot (maybe) than a contested three. And, should you not take the first really open look rather than pass up the shot and look for a three instead? Another issue is the chance of an offensive rebound when your team puts up a shorter shot...more offensive players near the basket and better chance for a put back...we have all seen the rebounds come off on a three point attempt; they tend to go high and wide.

It is highly doubtful that a coach of Fran's experience, with a team blessed with assistant coaches that have a staggering number of years of coaching time, that the advantages/disadvantages of 3 point shooting would not be known to them. Are you suggesting that the coaches don't know the numbers?

Just curious

 

[hawkjunkie]

Good stats. They make your point impossible to argue against. I knew they would prove your point that a long 2 is a stupid shot but I didn't think they would be that bad.

This doesn't show spot shooting. It doesn't count Gesell driving to the bucket getting swatted, nor his clanking the rim with the ball. Regardles, it is probably close...
But Fran isn't an idiot. He knows if you can't hit something outside of 15 feet you are going to have it stacked in the middle. Then we get nothing... A guess is that Fran is trying his damnedest to get something, Anything from more than 10 feet away to fall and keep things more open in the middle. Shooting 27% from 3 pt land isn't going to draw defenders anytime soon.

We have recruited shooters, they just ain't making them. I can't believe Fran hasn't had a stroke... Let's hope our shooting can get to the point of average. Just Average would drastically change this team.

 

[NEIChawk]

We have mentioned several times on this board that guard play is one of the biggest problems. Guard play can win games, can make people into scorers, can dish the ball to wide open 3 point shooters, can get to the FT line......my point is in order to win just look around to the better teams in the B1G.....right now Fran has no threat from the outside....ya, we have kids that shoot from the 3 line, but are they making them? And, are they making them when we need it to count? No.....we have seen the numbers and they're not pretty, and that does not translate into wins....we will struggle all year b/c of this (Hell, we've seen this that past couple of years)....All the other teams we play certainly do not lack in confidence when shooting beyond the arc, and if we can't hit then we have to go to plan "B", and maybe get the ball inside, or opt for the 14-17 ft shot.....either way, Fran's offense is lacking in several areas, and until we get the kids that fill those, we are looking at a B1G season that will be full of disappointment...Our kids need to do what they do well and leave it at that...

 

[okeefe4prez]

Are we the only basketball team in college basketball that seems to emphasize the 15-18 ft jump shot? It is the absolute dumbest shot in all of basketball to attempt, and it seems that Fran not only allows it, but empasizes it. How many times a game do we have to watch Uthoff, Jok, Ogs, and Gesell pump fake a 3, take one dribble inside the 3 point line and hoist up a 17-19 ft jump shot? Total waste of a possession, it is the dumbest shot in all of basketball. We should either get a shot 10' and in, or take a 3. Statistically speaking you are better off shooting 30% from 3 over 20 shots than you are shooting 40% from pt range.
I was trying to find a shot chart to see the shot selections, but I couldn't find one. The motion offense that Fran choosed to run is frustrating enough.....couple that with the fact that Fran tells these kids it is ok to pull from 17 or 18 ft. all game long, it is pull your hair out frustrating. It is no wonder we don't shoot worth a damnz.

Weber ran it when he was at Illinois. It got him fired. Weber's offenses were pretty terrible, but he was a far better defensive coach than Fran. Speaking of Weber, that guy criminally misused Meyers Leonard. I remember thinking Woodbury was going to be like Meyers and that Fran would coach him up to run an absolutely dominant inside-out game. I remember I once even posted "We're Back" like 50 times in a row because I was so excited. Never again. I will never let myself get excited about Iowa basketball ever again.

 

[ddiction]

When you look at numbers, as has been done in this thread, I certainly understand the wisdom of shooting 3 point shots. But, we do need to look at all of the variables, not just straight percentages. For example, you may want to consider the percentage made from "open looks" rather than contested shots. So, an open look from 15-18 feet is a better shot (maybe) than a contested three. And, should you not take the first really open look rather than pass up the shot and look for a three instead? Another issue is the chance of an offensive rebound when your team puts up a shorter shot...more offensive players near the basket and better chance for a put back...we have all seen the rebounds come off on a three point attempt; they tend to go high and wide.

It is highly doubtful that a coach of Fran's experience, with a team blessed with assistant coaches that have a staggering number of years of coaching time, that the advantages/disadvantages of 3 point shooting would not be known to them. Are you suggesting that the coaches don't know the numbers?

Just curious

There's actually a pretty good analysis below of where rebounds go based on where the shot was taken, and it also calculates the offensive rebound percentages from certain places. Essentially, offensive rebounds are most frequent from close range shots, as one would expect, but the three-pointer actually has a greater chance of an offensive rebound than a midrange shot, because threes often bounce back over the bigs and the guards end up rebounding them. The flipside is that presumably a long defensive rebound has a greater chance of resulting in a transition bucket, which further adds to the element of risk in taking a three.

Also, this analysis was done from NBA games. I would expect the offensive board percentages from college threes to be a little closer to the midrange percentages, since the line is closer.

http://courtvisionanalytics.com/where-do-rebounds-go/