HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Yeah. He has a really long history of making excuses for himself. Except for all of the times he has taken losses on his shoulders. Do you EVER deal with facts?
Fran got beat by Izzo
- Thread starter Adam
- Start date
Adam
Well-Known Member
I don't know, maybe. Who listens to that bum anyways. He is a placeholder for Hoiberg. Once the Bulls cut Freddy boy loose(maybe this year) that guy will be packing.
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
I watched the game and didn't see it any more physical for Jok over any of the other players.. I just call it like I see it, maybe I'm wrong and all those facts will come to light with a nice video montage of the mugging he took in East Lansing..
But earlier you made it sound like he should have taken the press off sooner when he saw it wasn't working. So if he should have taken the press off after 3 possessions (which I can get on board with) that means his bad decision cost us at the most 5 points since there is no way to know if they would have scored points on those 4 possessions had we been in half court defense.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
4-21 from 3. Poor rebounding.
D
DDThompson
Guest
Jok got mugged this game. No doubt about it. It's an Izzo team in East Lansing. Of course he got mugged.
There's also no doubt he played bad defense -- often on the ball defense was matadoresque.
If he is going to get mugged then he has to mug on defense. Force the refs to call it on each end or allow it on each end.
And he needs to get stronger on controlling the ball in the lane/on the block. Weak hands.
Just constructive critique. He is a very good player and knew he would be after watching him in HS
There's also no doubt he played bad defense -- often on the ball defense was matadoresque.
If he is going to get mugged then he has to mug on defense. Force the refs to call it on each end or allow it on each end.
And he needs to get stronger on controlling the ball in the lane/on the block. Weak hands.
Just constructive critique. He is a very good player and knew he would be after watching him in HS
Adam
Well-Known Member
Yes. Those 5 points represented the nail in the coffin.
HawkeyeWalker
Well-Known Member
Lots of things could have been better.....defense, rebounding, freethrows. But I think we might be looking into this a little too much. At the end of the day, bad shooting, even with good looks, lost this game. Missed bunnies and 4-21 from 3 lost this game. That's not to say there isn't many things to improve on, clearly there is. Shoot anywhere close to season avg as a team and this is a 1-2 possession game to the end.
This team isn't all that far off, in my opinion, but until they shore up a few weaknesses, they can't afford to have really poor shooting nights.
A little rebounding work, a little freethrow work....they'll be able to play with almost anyone in the league...if they shoot like they can
This team isn't all that far off, in my opinion, but until they shore up a few weaknesses, they can't afford to have really poor shooting nights.
A little rebounding work, a little freethrow work....they'll be able to play with almost anyone in the league...if they shoot like they can
I just think it's nit picking a bit to point to 5 points over 3 possessions on a night we shot so bad.
Adam
Well-Known Member
It is indeed nit picking. With the poor shooting night all of the in game coaching choices become more critical. It also accentuates these choices more. We as fans all knew that MSU's defense was going to stymie our offense. Fran likely knew this as well. I would've liked to have seen Fran be a little more thoughtful and strategic for the exact reason that a 5 points margin of error could and did turn the game. 6 points against anyone anywhere is recoverable. 11 points on the road against the likes of MSU is much less winnable. Especially to let it happen in the middle of the second half. I'm not bombing Fran. Izzo has 22 years of beating other coaches. My main point was even when the Iowa players were not playing great they were in the game on the road against one of the elite programs in the B1G. For me the difference in this game was the finer coaching nuances. Izzo beat Fran in game coaching. That is the main point.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
Below is my post from Friday afternoon in another thread.
"MSU doesn't scare me all that much. But they lost by 29 at Michigan in their last game. They've had extra time to prep and rest. They definitely have a home court advantage. And we just played a 50 minute game...also traveling for the 2nd straight game.
I hope we play well and I hope we win. But I suspect we will compete; give a good effort; and lose by about 15. The deck is stacked against us in this one."
And I think this is exactly what happened. JB got in foul trouble and couldn't make a shot because he played 45 minutes against Minnesota IMO.
Sometimes there's not a whole lot the coach or players can do about it. The prospect of playing MSU in the BTT doesn't concern me whatsoever. And Wisconsin is scaring me less with each passing day.
"MSU doesn't scare me all that much. But they lost by 29 at Michigan in their last game. They've had extra time to prep and rest. They definitely have a home court advantage. And we just played a 50 minute game...also traveling for the 2nd straight game.
I hope we play well and I hope we win. But I suspect we will compete; give a good effort; and lose by about 15. The deck is stacked against us in this one."
And I think this is exactly what happened. JB got in foul trouble and couldn't make a shot because he played 45 minutes against Minnesota IMO.
Sometimes there's not a whole lot the coach or players can do about it. The prospect of playing MSU in the BTT doesn't concern me whatsoever. And Wisconsin is scaring me less with each passing day.
Adam
Well-Known Member
While your pre game prediction was very similar to my expectation for the game. The actual game unfolded and we were in it and could have won it (I was surprised). I don't agree that the in game coaching can't change the outcome though. While it is unrealistic to expect your coach to be a master at every game situation. I think what went down in this game was highly predictable and I was disappointed to see that Fran didn't have any tricks up his sleeve. I just feel he should have been prepared for that scenario. I can't say for sure that he wasn't, but nothing we did on the court appeared to be adjustments to how the game changed. Sticking with the press in hindsight was just not the best look.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
If this is true then the rest of your post and many of your other posts I have read have no credibility. To say you expected this and then go off on coaching, etc. is contradictory IMO. So I'm not going any further with this back and forth.
I don't think we will have any problems with Illinois on Saturday after a week to rest and prepare. I still think we will finish 9-9 in the conference and be seeded 7th in the BTT.
Robowe
Well-Known Member
I think most coaches have a belief in their system and their team. Iowa was close to Michigan State on the road for the 1st half and into the 2nd half. The press was causing some turnovers and generally disrupting MSU's offense which was not good for a lot of the game (Hence, Iowa leading while not shooting well).
I am sure Fran and his staff were thinking - if we can just keep playing defense and some of our shots start to fall, we can take control of this game. Alas, the opposite happened - Iowa's outside shooting never took hold while MSU starting hitting shots in the 2nd half and won going away. For a young team, in the 2nd game in a row on the road after a double OT game, it seems reasonable that is what happened. I am not sure how coaching would have changed any of that.
This is just my opinion. I respect your thoughts as well.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Hawk, I am not so much talking about how much Peter got mugged as I am talking about your judgement of him for "making excuses." That seemed unfair to me, given his responses during previous losses. I watched the game too and my biased view was that he got beat up a lot. I think that has happened to him virtually all season in the Big Ten. I will admit that I am old fashioned and would like to see the physical play allowed by officials toned down considerably. I like a finesse game, not hockey with a ball. Call it like you see it is fine with me.
I'm going to have to agree with this. This game played out exactly how I thought with one exception. MSU played terrible in the first half. We had absolutely nothing for them but for half the game, MSU had nothing for us either. He press worked great against Minnesota. Without it we don't make a comeback. The only way to know it wouldn't work against MSU is hindsight. Also if we lose the game with Fran never even trying anything different, people would say he was too predictable.
thedukeofearl
Well-Known Member
Adam
Well-Known Member
I said multiple times that I am not Fran bashing. He is my favorite Iowa coach in my lifetime. That also doesn't mean that I can't accurately assess any perceived successes or failures. IMO in regards to this 1 game. The MSU game. Fran has some ownership in that loss. If we shot poorly and got routed like ILL or Northwestern I would say players own those loses. The MSU game we were in and our lack of defensive variation cost us the game as much as anything. How is Fran not culpable for that? Do the players choose the defense? You should be able to distinguish the difference between games that the team lost from games that coaches lose. I posted this thread so that people would not get down on the players for the loss. They aren't totally at fault. Fran could have done more that is all.
Adam
Well-Known Member
Yes you could. Although I do attribute the half time lead to MSU's proclivity for turnovers more so than anything coaching scheme wise, but ya if he takes any blame for the loss I will also give him the credit for having us in it. I will give him big credit for figuring out and fixing whatever it was that had us starting games flat and unorganized.
