Four turnovers in the Rose Bowl?

[Hawkfnntn]

Read my post above. I live in Madison and know the case extremely well. Cephus was acquitted of all charges.

There was substantial evidence including text messages from the females after it happened that he did not take advantage of them. They simply felt shame by their actions and the whole thing kind of spiraled out of control.

The court system prevailed and Cephus rightfully was acquitted. But unfortunately the damage is done to his reputation for the uniformed like yourself.

Yeah they really did a number on him. Glad he got to come back and play though. That stink might not rub off for quite awhile. Tough not to feel bad for him for that part of it. That could be most any college dude. Don't think it can't happen at Iowa that's all I know. You wish guys would just not act that permiscuous and to many that in and of itself is pretty bad. But still that's a far cry from rape...

 

[ChosenChildren]

Read my post above. I live in Madison and know the case extremely well. Cephus was acquitted of all charges.

There was substantial evidence including text messages from the females after it happened that he did not take advantage of them. They simply felt shame by their actions and the whole thing kind of spiraled out of control.

The court system prevailed and Cephus rightfully was acquitted. But unfortunately the damage is done to his reputation for the uniformed like yourself.

It is easy to intimidate defenseless 18 year old girls who are under the influence. It is also easy to intimidate them later. Not everyone shares your opinion on this case. Yes he is acquitted but I'm not uninformed. Far from it. The burden of proof to convict in a case like this is extremely high (as it should be). You are hanging your hat on the "text messages." I'm sure there was other evidence considered as well. Otherwise, why would the case go to trial in the first place? You state that Cephus was "rightfully acquitted." A jury acquitted because the prosecution did not meet its burden of proof. I'm glad Cephus had a great lawyer and a vigorous defense, but I'm sure the prosecution was disappointed in the verdict.

If you ever had a daughter involved in something like this, your opinion might change.

And what does Ferentz recruiting have to do with it. The alleged incident happened after that player committed to Wisconsin.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I disagree that it was a farce. It took a long time to go to trial. The prosecutors didn't think it was a farce. If it was your daughter you wouldn't have thought it was a farce. I think the two young women will have a hard time "moving on." I had not read the testimony of the witnesses so I have no idea why the jury acquitted, but perhaps Cephus had a terrific defense lawyer.

The case was no farce. Far from it.

Again I know much more about this case than do you.

The girls are definitely victims, not of a sex crime but of the emotional damage of this process. To that the DA who forced this FARCE through is to blame. I remember when the details came out in that spring when it happened. At the time you could tell there was no case. He was acquitted in less than 45 minutes of jury deliberation, that’s crazy, there are DUI cases that get deliberated longer than that.

 

[NikeHawk21]

It is easy to intimidate defenseless 18 year old girls who are under the influence. It is also easy to intimidate them later. Not everyone shares your opinion on this case. Yes he is acquitted but I'm not uninformed. Far from it. The burden of proof to convict in a case like this is extremely high (as it should be). You are hanging your hat on the "text messages." I'm sure there was other evidence considered as well. Otherwise, why would the case go to trial in the first place? You state that Cephus was "rightfully acquitted." A jury acquitted because the prosecution did not meet its burden of proof. I'm glad Cephus had a great lawyer and a vigorous defense, but I'm sure the prosecution was disappointed in the verdict.

If you ever had a daughter involved in something like this, your opinion might change.

And what does Ferentz recruiting have to do with it. The alleged incident happened after that player committed to Wisconsin.

Look the bottom line is this, you completely unfoundedly called Danny Davis a criminal. He was never accused of any criminal activity by anyone in this matter.

We can go back and forth on this matter all day, we each have our views. I feel bad for the girls as well and wouldn’t wish the situation on anyone, it was all around a bad deal.

Let’s move on.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Again I know much more about this case than do you.

The girls are definitely victims, not of a sex crime but of the emotional damage of this process. To that the DA who forced this FARCE through is to blame. I remember when the details came out in that spring when it happened. At the time you could tell there was no case. He was acquitted in less than 45 minutes of jury deliberation, that’s crazy, there are DUI cases that get deliberated longer than that.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I am a practicing lawyer and I have known prosecutors well and I don't believe that a DA in Madison, Wisconsin of all places "forced" this case.

There are thousands of cases like this on college campuses all over the United States. Most of the cases aren't even reported. Some are prosecuted. Not all of them result in a conviction. Again, the burden of proof is high, as it should be.

Yes, Cephus was acquitted and he gets a second chance. He deserved a trial and a vigorous defense and he got it. But those two young girls won't get that night back. That night stays with them forever. Did you ever talk to the prosecuting lawyers who brought the case? I'm sure their opinion would differ from yours. How about the parents of the victims? They are not famous football players who will play in the NFL. Did anyone interview them after the verdict? I wonder how they feel about it? These were very young girls.

 

[NikeHawk21]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I am a practicing lawyer and I have known prosecutors well and I don't believe that a DA in Madison, Wisconsin of all places "forced" this case.

There are thousands of cases like this on college campuses all over the United States. Most of the cases aren't even reported. Some are prosecuted. Not all of them result in a conviction. Again, the burden of proof is high, as it should be.

Yes, Cephus was acquitted and he gets a second chance. He deserved a trial and a vigorous defense and he got it. But those two young girls won't get that night back. That night stays with them forever. Did you ever talk to the prosecuting lawyers who brought the case? I'm sure their opinion would differ from yours. How about the parents of the victims? They are not famous football players who will play in the NFL. Did anyone interview them after the verdict? I wonder how they feel about it? These were very young girls.

You still haven’t been able to prove how Danny Davis is a criminal, which is where this all began.

We both have our views on the Cephus case but ultimately the court decided. Like I said I’m ready to move on.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Look the bottom line is this, you completely unfoundedly called Danny Davis a criminal. He was never accused of any criminal activity by anyone in this matter.

We can go back and forth on this matter all day, we each have our views. I feel bad for the girls as well and wouldn’t wish the situation on anyone, it was all around a bad deal.

Let’s move on.

Davis was taking photographs of the sex (that's what you said). That is not wrong? Did the two young girls "consent" to that as well? Why didn't Davis intervene if he felt bad about it?

I don't know you and you are entitled to your opinion. This is a message board, but I believe my characterization of Davis was accurate in every way. It was certainly a "bad deal" for two 18 year old defenseless young girls. A very bad deal.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Davis was a "criminal" (my characterization) because he encouraged the behavior by photographing it, instead of intervening or trying to stop it. Did he commit a crime under the Wisconsin Penal Code? Apparently not. If Cephus had been convicted of rape? Then it gets a little more complicated for Davis.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Davis was taking photographs of the sex (that's what you said). That is not wrong? Did the two young girls "consent" to that as well? Why didn't Davis intervene if he felt bad about it?

I don't know you and you are entitled to your opinion. This is a message board, but I believe my characterization of Davis was accurate in every way. It was certainly a "bad deal" for two 18 year old defenseless young girls. A very bad deal.

Davis was a "criminal" (my characterization) because he encouraged the behavior by photographing it, instead of intervening or trying to stop it. Did he commit a crime under the Wisconsin Penal Code? Apparently not. If Cephus had been convicted of rape? Then it gets a little more complicated for Davis.

Again you are intertwining your opinion of what happened. You were not there, neither was I, so you can’t talk in certainties like you are trying to. You keep saying they were defenseless, if that were the case the court would have found Cephus guilty. Unfortunately they were not able to prove that. You’re taking your preconceived notions about what happened and using them to paint the picture.

It’s also quite possible that this was all completely consensual act that the girls felt shame for after the fact.

All I know is that Danny Davis was not ever accused or convicted of any criminal behavior, and therefore is not a criminal.

 

[okeefe4prez]

It’s also quite possible that this was all completely consensual act that the girls felt shame for after the fact.

That literally never happens. There are studies by prominent gender studies professors from coast to coast and all have thoroughly debunked the theory of "regret rape."

 

[NikeHawk21]

That literally never happens. There are studies by prominent gender studies professors from coast to coast and all have thoroughly debunked the theory of "regret rape."

The bottom line is Cephus was found not guilty. Nobody knows outside of who was there what actually happened. We can all sit there and debate it for days.

I’m discussing with a poster who called a third party a criminal even though he was never accused, charged, or convicted of anything criminal.

 

[ChosenChildren]

That literally never happens. There are studies by prominent gender studies professors from coast to coast and all have thoroughly debunked the theory of "regret rape."

Thank you. You get it.

The two women are now pursuing civil remedies. Davis could still be sued for his actions, but they are pursuing remedies against the University of Wisconsin for negligently reinstating Cephus as a student at the U. of Wisconsin. They hired John Clune, a prominent lawyer nationally who specializes in these cases.

The victims are still pursuing legal remedies.

Again you are intertwining your opinion of what happened. You were not there, neither was I, so you can’t talk in certainties like you are trying to. You keep saying they were defenseless, if that were the case the court would have found Cephus guilty. Unfortunately they were not able to prove that. You’re taking your preconceived notions about what happened and using them to paint the picture.

It’s also quite possible that this was all completely consensual act that the girls felt shame for after the fact.

All I know is that Danny Davis was not ever accused or convicted of any criminal behavior, and therefore is not a criminal.

Disagree. He is a criminal because I believe he committed a criminal act. I also believe Cephus committed a criminal act. You are correct, the State did not meet the burden of proof. We will see what happens in the civil proceedings. That is a different burden of proof.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Thank you. You get it.

The two women are now pursuing civil remedies. Davis could still be sued for his actions, but they are pursuing remedies against the University of Wisconsin for negligently reinstating Cephus as a student at the U. of Wisconsin. They hired John Clune, a prominent lawyer nationally who specializes in these cases.

The victims are still pursuing legal remedies.


Disagree. He is a criminal because I believe he committed a criminal act. I also believe Cephus committed a criminal act. You are correct, the State did not meet the burden of proof. We will see what happens in the civil proceedings. That is a different burden of proof.

“He is a criminal because I say he’s a criminal”

Got it... and you’re a practicing attorney? Yikes.

 

[ChosenChildren]

“He is a criminal because I say he’s a criminal”

Got it... and you’re a practicing attorney? Yikes.

Yes, I am an attorney and have defended clients many, many times, sometimes successfully. You seem completely insensitive to the plight of those two girls. Do you know they received threats and hundreds of negative communications while they pursued their case? Don't you think there is something wrong with that, as well? You need to research the case a little more.

Your position is that Davis did not engage in criminal behavior because he was neither prosecuted nor convicted. Ok, fair enough. But you weren't there either.

Sometimes juries and prosecutors make bad decisions. Sometimes guilty people are found innocent. Sometimes innocent people are found guilty. Under our system, as you know, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm glad we have that system, but I'm still entitled to my opinion of a man's character.

Based on my understanding of the case and the stipulated facts, it is my opinion (and it is simply that) that both Cephus and Davis engaged in criminal behavior. I am not a prosecuting lawyer or a judge, so my opinion doesn't matter, but I believe it in my heart.

You are criticizing me (that is ok) but you are giving Cephus and Davis a free pass because of a jury verdict. That is wrong, in my humble opinion. It is a major case and the plaintiffs are now pursuing remedies in the civil arena. It is a serious case.

 

[okeefe4prez]

Based on my understanding of the case and the stipulated facts, it is my opinion (and it is simply that) that both Cephus and Davis engaged in criminal behavior. I am not a prosecuting lawyer or a judge, so my opinion doesn't matter, but I believe it in my heart.

You are criticizing me (that is ok) but you are giving Cephus and Davis a free pass because of a jury verdict. That is wrong, in my humble opinion. It is a major case and the plaintiffs are now pursuing remedies in the civil arena. It is a serious case.

I don't think Davis is a criminal, but the University of Wisconsin is in a bind in this situation. They have a code of conduct, which has a lower bar to expel someone from school than a criminal proceeding. They used that code to expel Cephus. He sued and the case was dismissed. After acquittal, he was reinstated.

The University of Iowa is not on a level playing field on matters like that. If that same fact pattern happened in Iowa City, both of those guys would be gone. In the wake of the Pierce incident, actual control systems were put in place to deal with those issues and they are very lopsided against any athlete accused because sports is a privilege, not a right. That brings up Title IX and equal protection concerns, but at the end of the day the schools can't run full criminal trials on this crap and if you bring back two drunk minors and your buddy photographs you involved in carnal knowledge with them and they later allege that they were assaulted, you are not going to don the black and old gold ever again. I'm okay with that. We should all be okay with that. Those aren't the kind of young men we want on campus. That kind of shit is what you tolerate when you have a scumbag like Steve Alford exerting control. Wisconsin wants that. I don't and I hope most Iowa fans don't. So we're gonna be 6-6? Tough shit.

 

[NikeHawk21]

Yes, I am an attorney and have defended clients many, many times, sometimes successfully. You seem completely insensitive to the plight of those two girls. Do you know they received threats and hundreds of negative communications while they pursued their case? Don't you think there is something wrong with that, as well? You need to research the case a little more.

Your position is that Davis did not engage in criminal behavior because he was neither prosecuted nor convicted. Ok, fair enough. But you weren't there either.

Sometimes juries and prosecutors make bad decisions. Sometimes guilty people are found innocent. Sometimes innocent people are found guilty. Under our system, as you know, you are presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm glad we have that system, but I'm still entitled to my opinion of a man's character.

Based on my understanding of the case and the stipulated facts, it is my opinion (and it is simply that) that both Cephus and Davis engaged in criminal behavior. I am not a prosecuting lawyer or a judge, so my opinion doesn't matter, but I believe it in my heart.

You are criticizing me (that is ok) but you are giving Cephus and Davis a free pass because of a jury verdict. That is wrong, in my humble opinion. It is a major case and the plaintiffs are now pursuing remedies in the civil arena. It is a serious case.

As I said I followed the case from the time the story broke and all the evidence and facts of the case I had heard overwhelming looked as if there was no crime committed by Cephus, before this went to trial. I have even forgot or am slightly forgetting some of the exact details which included videos from the bar they were at which not only showed the females all over Cephus but showed them entering and exiting the bar not appearing to be under the influence or at least not noticeably intoxicated. Before you say something could have happened afterwards it was the females claim that they were drinking at the bar and too drunk, but this video evidence directly refuted that and questioned the truthfulness of their story. Some other testimony refuted they were extremely intoxicated.

One of the girls I believe was dating another one of the WRs AJ Taylor at the time, and I think this is where the photo that Danny Davis took might have caused some issues, and potential embarrassment. At the request of the female, he deleted the photo instantly, which was not refuted. She was worried about AJ Taylor finding out about what had happened. She testified that she did find out that night that AJ Taylor was with another women at the time. You can decide what that means or how that factors into this.

I feel for victims of sexual assault I really do, but I make my judgements based on the information that is gathered in each case. In this one it was pretty overwhelming that there was no way a guilty verdict would be reached and therefore it was an idiotic move by the AD to push it to the trial, where as you mention these girls took on a lifetime of emotional stress.

With little understanding of the particulars and what Danny Davis did it’s amazing that you are convinced he’s a criminal. The fact that you are an attorney makes it that much more mind boggling to me.

 

[hawkeyebob62]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this one. I am a practicing lawyer and I have known prosecutors well and I don't believe that a DA in Madison, Wisconsin of all places "forced" this case.

There are thousands of cases like this on college campuses all over the United States. Most of the cases aren't even reported. Some are prosecuted. Not all of them result in a conviction. Again, the burden of proof is high, as it should be.

Yes, Cephus was acquitted and he gets a second chance. He deserved a trial and a vigorous defense and he got it. But those two young girls won't get that night back. That night stays with them forever. Did you ever talk to the prosecuting lawyers who brought the case? I'm sure their opinion would differ from yours. How about the parents of the victims? They are not famous football players who will play in the NFL. Did anyone interview them after the verdict? I wonder how they feel about it? These were very young girls.

You're a shitty lawyer, then. Enough came out about this case that ONLY someone who is UNINFORMED could paint Cephus and Davis the way you are painting them. The more info that came out--and again you weren't "required" to read it, but it's painfully obvious you that you didn't--shed more and more light on an overeager (and possibly malicious) prosecution by the DA.

You're also a shitty lawyer when you bring emotive crap into it ("If it were YOUR daughter!") versus looking at the facts and evidence in the case. Believe it or not, some claims of rape are "remorse" and "shame" rather than actual "rape" and/or "sexual assault".

Go back and read the facts of the case. It might make you a better lawyer, and it will certainly make you look like less of a fool when trying to argue whether or not Cephus and Davis are "criminals".

 

[hawkeyebob62]

Thank you. You get it.

The two women are now pursuing civil remedies. Davis could still be sued for his actions, but they are pursuing remedies against the University of Wisconsin for negligently reinstating Cephus as a student at the U. of Wisconsin. They hired John Clune, a prominent lawyer nationally who specializes in these cases.

The victims are still pursuing legal remedies.


Disagree. He is a criminal because I believe he committed a criminal act. I also believe Cephus committed a criminal act. You are correct, the State did not meet the burden of proof. We will see what happens in the civil proceedings. That is a different burden of proof.

OK4P literally catfished/punked you. There are no studies negating "regret rape". JFC, get a clue.

 

[eveningnewsteam]

It was a big donor’s daughter. That’s how it got the legs it did.

 

[NikeHawk21]

You're a shitty lawyer, then. Enough came out about this case that ONLY someone who is UNINFORMED could paint Cephus and Davis the way you are painting them. The more info that came out--and again you weren't "required" to read it, but it's painfully obvious you that you didn't--shed more and more light on an overeager (and possibly malicious) prosecution by the DA.

You're also a shitty lawyer when you bring emotive crap into it ("If it were YOUR daughter!") versus looking at the facts and evidence in the case. Believe it or not, some claims of rape are "remorse" and "shame" rather than actual "rape" and/or "sexual assault".

Go back and read the facts of the case. It might make you a better lawyer, and it will certainly make you look like less of a fool when trying to argue whether or not Cephus and Davis are "criminals".

Thank you. I’m glad someone else has seen some of the facts that came out and saw what really happened here.

To be honest I thought the “if it was your daughter” thing was lame as well but let it slide. There are certain people that will just never admit they are wrong no matter what and I think we have some of that here.

I can see someone thinking poorly of Cephus, but calling Davis a criminal was just completely unfounded.