For the first time since Brand's came---

papathawki

Well-Known Member
I'm worried that the dynasty may be moving to Penn State. Second year in a row they have dominated, with mostly wrestlers with years to go. Doesn't seem we have a shot at #1 for at least a couple of years. Can we out-recruit Sanderson? Two years ago I'd have said, definitely! But it hasn't worked that way and that's why I'm so worried. I hate!! posting this kind of stuff, but, am I being realistic? Please, please, tell me I'm wrong!!
 
I'm worried that the dynasty may be moving to Penn State. Second year in a row they have dominated, with mostly wrestlers with years to go. Doesn't seem we have a shot at #1 for at least a couple of years. Can we out-recruit Sanderson? Two years ago I'd have said, definitely! But it hasn't worked that way and that's why I'm so worried. I hate!! posting this kind of stuff, but, am I being realistic? Please, please, tell me I'm wrong!!

No one is going to out recruit Sanderson. No one has as much name cache in the sport as he does. You just have to be better at getting you guys ready and improving them. Sanderson did not do much with ISUs lighter half. Hope the talent runs a little thin and the same happens at Happy Valley.
 
I'm worried that the dynasty may be moving to Penn State. Second year in a row they have dominated, with mostly wrestlers with years to go. Doesn't seem we have a shot at #1 for at least a couple of years. Can we out-recruit Sanderson? Two years ago I'd have said, definitely! But it hasn't worked that way and that's why I'm so worried. I hate!! posting this kind of stuff, but, am I being realistic? Please, please, tell me I'm wrong!!

Slow down there and take a step back. Cael has 2 NCs... Brands has 3. Iowa has 23. PSU has 2. Cael is running the perfect storm right now. He knew what he was doing when he left ISU. They made fun of him for his comments but he was right.

That being said - ISU has a ton of history in the sport and is pretty solid. What did Cael do there? Always came in second fiddle to Iowa and could never ever beat us, that's what. He moves on to PSU and they catch fire for 2 years and people think he's building the perfect dynasty there already?

In the early 2000s MN won 3 of 4 titles in a 4 year span. People thought the power base was moving away from Iowa. How did that turn out? MN hasn't won since then but has been solid - still they aren't one of the top 2 programs. They are getting hurt bad by graduation this year as well. Sanders and Yohn hurt a lot and they lost Deitchler to concussions. MN will be worse next year - still tough - but worse. The Dardanes' are good but not spectacular. Ness caught fire in the tourney but isn't a top 5 wrestler in my opinion. Steinhaus is a beast but can't seem to keep pace with the top guys.

Back to PSU:
125 Megaludis - very good young freshman but i'll be surprised if he's in the NC finals again. He was very flukish this year and doesn't wrestle people. He's a staller and reminds me of Okie State.
133 Martellotti - won't amount to much
141 Alton - will be back from Olympic redshirt. Tough dangerous wrestler but not dominant.
149 Molinaro - gone
157 Alton - see 141
165 Taylor - NC locked up for 2 years
174 Ruth - NC locked up for 2 years
184 Wright - has one year left but i feel like he does a lot of his work with smoke and mirrors; i really don't think he's as good as many do
197 Macintosh - #1 recruit in the country but doesn't seem like he's got "IT" to me
HWT Wade - solid SNR wrestler is gone

So Molinaro, Ruth, Wright and Wade were basically gifted to Cael when he got there. Taylor came with him. The Altons, Megaludis and Macintosh are his recruits. Add all of that together and examine the makeup of his team? Where is the power base? It's in Molinaro, Taylor, Ruth, Wright and Wade. The rest of the team is decent but not great. Two of those guys are graduating and were PSU guys. Ruth stayed on when PSU got Cael iirc which was pretty fortunate. Taylor is a once in a lifetime talent. Macintosh is the same level of recruit but nowhere near Taylor which shows how rare that kind of talent is. Wright is just a hard working blue collar guy and will be a tough out as a senior but isn't mind blowing.

So when Taylor and Ruth graduate in 2 years where will PSU be? They have one guy in the top 100 this year (we have 4 in the top 24.) I can see each of the Altons maybe picking up one NC somewhere along the way. I don't think Macintosh or Megaludis ever will. Last year, Cael got the gift of Andrew Long who went all the way to the finals who shouldn't even have been allowed to wrestle. He got his only champ out of Wright who caught fire as a 9 seed, and Cornell bombed in the late rounds, dropping 3 of their stud guys in a row.

If you want to talk about recruiting, i'd put McDonough, Metcalf, Borschel, Keddy, Beatty, DSJ, Ramos, Gillman (sp?), Clark, Skon, Marion, Dennis well ahead of Taylor, The Altons, Megaludis, Macintosh, Martellotti, Long, etc... I really would. That's not looking at it with rose colored glasses.

The Hawks are around to stay and Brands is young. Watch the fire he shows on the sideline, listen to him talk. His guys would run through a wall for him. Watch Cael sit on the sidelines emotionless. Listen to him talk. He's boring. Yeah - he's got great name recognition. Brands doesn't?! When they come into your living room, Tom has just as much chance to get you as Cael does. And Iowa, our facilities and the legend of Gable play into that too. The country is filled with our coaches and wrestlers. That's why the road has gotten harder for us. Did anyone notice how much tougher Illinois was with Perry on the bench or UNI in ONE YEAR under Schwab?

By the way - if you want to talk about programs in trouble visit Okie State and ISU... those are programs heading the wrong way. Okie State is an OLD team this year and still didn't do well. Ohio State is passing them by.

Iowa is fine. You can't win them every damn year.
PSU might win the next two... might. I'll concede 1 of 2. I will bet a lot of money they drop back to the 2-4th best team in the BT after Taylor and Ruth graduate.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Great breakdown. I have heard that the smaller Alton is too big for 41 and will be at 49 next year. Even if he did stay at 41, he would place high because the weight clears out massively with all the seniors that just graduated.

How the heck did Ok St do so poorly, I remember when they were the #1 team in the country. They have not wrestled very well at nationals lately. Oliver did get screwed tonight, and I feel sorry for whatever weight he decides to go to next year.
 
Great breakdown. I have heard that the smaller Alton is too big for 41 and will be at 49 next year. Even if he did stay at 41, he would place high because the weight clears out massively with all the seniors that just graduated.

How the heck did Ok St do so poorly, I remember when they were the #1 team in the country. They have not wrestled very well at nationals lately. Oliver did get screwed tonight, and I feel sorry for whatever weight he decides to go to next year.

Yeah he got totally jobbed. I hated him as a frosh when he taunted the Iowa crowd but since then he's quieted down and just become a great wrestler. I think he respects the heck out of Ramos too.

That same takedown (to the butt) was called a TD twice in each of the next two matches. That was such horse-$hit. Really bad reffing tonight all around.
 
Comparing what Cael did in Ames to PSU is sketchy IMO...he knew he was always going to be second fiddle in the state of Iowa, one of the best states in the nation for HS wrestling talent. In PA, he can recruit better. We'll see how he does and winning two straight is not going to hurt them...and they have made huge financial investments in wrestling there.
 
Comparing what Cael did in Ames to PSU is sketchy IMO...he knew he was always going to be second fiddle in the state of Iowa, one of the best states in the nation for HS wrestling talent. In PA, he can recruit better. We'll see how he does and winning two straight is not going to hurt them...and they have made huge financial investments in wrestling there.

Why is it sketchy? He's a new man at PSU? He's not the same coach? What is different? ISU has TONS more history and talent than PSU and it's not close. If he's got such great name recognition, why was he playing second fiddle here? It's not like he didn't have the recruits at ISU... he loaded that team every year but they could never do it. He had ISU teams with TONS of talent - Reader, Varner, Zabriskie, etc... I don't see how it's sketchy at all. He was the coach at ISU, he's the coach at PSU. What's not to compare? Sorry but I disagree with you.
 
Yeah he got totally jobbed. I hated him as a frosh when he taunted the Iowa crowd but since then he's quieted down and just become a great wrestler. I think he respects the heck out of Ramos too.

That same takedown (to the butt) was called a TD twice in each of the next two matches. That was such horse-$hit. Really bad reffing tonight all around.

Him, Z, and the kid who transferred to Virginia, all mocked the crowd that dual. I think you can definitely say that Oliver and Z have grown in that regards since then. I thought the virginia transfer (really having trouble remembering the name right now) would be the best out of the 3. His blast double he put on M* was deadly.
 
Also - I don't really think financial investments make that much of a difference in wrestling. You still get only 9.9 scholarships. Wrestling is the most physically and mentally demanding sport their is. Fancy equipment and rooms don't win championships, hard work and training do. I'll take the Brands boys and Zadick in that fight over Cael and his shiny new toys any day.
 
Yeah - look at Okie State. Loaded with Senior talent. Gelogaev looked unbeatable - he's done. Parks was always overrated IMO but undefeated this year... he bows out like I thought he would... he's done. Dallas Bailey is a salty senior - is he done? I'm feeling like he is. They get Oliver for one more year. Morrison is no good. Kindig is a mental mess and not great either. At 157 they are terrible. Perry is a beast but will never get over Ruth. Where are they getting better?

What place did they even finish this year? I think 4 BT teams finished ahead of them.
 
PSU is here to stay as much as Iowa fans don't want to hear that, it is true. Brands won't admit that parity is alive in wrestling, but it is and it is good for the sport. Sure Brands is a big name in wrestling, but nationally Cael's name carries more recognition especially with the nations youth. The kids that Brands will be recruiting next year were only 2-3 years old when he last competed, but that won't stop him from getting studs.

When you start looking to next year, PSU is obviously going to be very good while only losing one starter. While Molinaro was very good, the guy replacing him could be better in Andrew Alton. The also have a very good 125lber coming in next year in Jimmy Guilbon, that will allow Megadulis to move up. Minnesota is going to be very tough again and tOSU is only going to get better. Iowa still needs to plug some major holes at 141, 149, and 197. We will be inexperienced at all 3 of those weights next year barring some kind of transfer.

Wrestler development at the upper weights is going to be key and we need our young guys to be ready to win now. Evans is going to have to learn how to wrestle on his feet and while he has developed a rep of being tough from top, he hasn't been effective from that position against the better wrestlers. Lofthouse hasn't come along like the staff would have hoped and Gambrall has had some injury setbacks.

Good thing is we have some good building blocks with McD, Ramos and DSJ. Lets hope the young studs coming in next year learn from these guys and buy in right away because we need them to if we want to unseat PSU.
 
Also - I don't really think financial investments make that much of a difference in wrestling. You still get only 9.9 scholarships. Wrestling is the most physically and mentally demanding sport their is. Fancy equipment and rooms don't win championships, hard work and training do. I'll take the Brands boys and Zadick in that fight over Cael and his shiny new toys any day.

First off, great post earlier about our future. PSU is gonna win next year and probably the year after but they are NOT going to put together the dynasty we have had over the last thirty years. I mean come on guys. Cael is going to get some talent and win some titles over his career at PSU, so is Brands, so is J Rob and so on. To do what we did from Kurdelmeir to Gable to Brands is something that happens in sports once in a blue moon. Let's not talk dynasty with PSU that's preposterous. There is some parity and it's good for competition, good for the athletes and good for our sport which has been dying slowly over the last 25 years. Iowa will be back on top soon.

BTW I left Zalesky out because he won with Gable's teams.
 
The fact that Iowa has been very poor lately at pumping out successful college wrestlers makes it tough too, Cael can build a championship team just recruiting a 90 mile radius from his front step.

Since 2002 only 4 native Iowans have won NCAA D1 Championships (Mcd, Borschel, Paulson and Moore) and in that time span there hasn't been more than 6 AA's in any one year that were native Iowans.

2012 - 2 AA's, 1 Champ
2011 - 6 AA's, 0 Champs
2010 - 5 AA's, 2 Champs
2009 - 2 AA's, 0 Champs
2008 - 6 AA's, 0 Champs
2007 - 3 AA's, 1 Champ
2006 - 3 AA's, 0 Champs
2005 - 4 AA's, 0 Champs
2004 - 6 AA's, 1 Champ
2003 - 4 AA's, 0 Champs
2002 - 5 AA's, 0 Champs
 
Top