For NCAA to survive, it can't give Miami death penalty

MultipleDundieAwardWinner said:
Miami has a pretty big national following. Chances are, if I were dropped in a random city, I would find a guy wearing Miami gear before a guy wearing, say, Wisconsin gear.

That said, Miami is a pretty big deal in South Florida (and the South East in general), and while they don't have many alumni, they have many wealthy people in that area who support the program, and legions of great athletes who yearn to wear the U.
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Miami does not have been wealthy donors at all. That is one of the reasons Shapiro was welcomed so readily as a donor. They were hurting for funds and unlike most football powers there weren't donors lining up to help.
 
NewMexHawk said:
The cheating started in 2002...wasn't Miami very relevant around then?

The problem with cheating is that it pays off BIG time for those doing the cheating. So now schools assess whether it is worth cheating and worth getting caught. If all that happens is that you don't get to go to a bowl game for a couple of years, big deal.

The entire time they were cheating they set themselves up as a powerhouse and kids still want to go there because of all the publicity they received all those years. Kids don't care whether the schools cheated...they want to play in championship games. So a pat on the hand and it is right back to business and they are still a powerhouse.

Think the 2year ban will hurt USC? OSU?
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Except in this case the cheating did not pay off at all. Shaping started donating at the end of the 2002 season, at that time they had just had a 30 some game winning streak snapped. In the fiesta bowl. The gradually got worse over the next five years as Shaping continued to cheat, bottoming out with a 5-7 season. Shapiro did not help Miami win anything significant at all while he was giving out illegal benefits.
 
After thinking about it, I'd love a 4 conference college football league. Each with 16, the rest of the schools left to fend for themselves. I would envision a season like this:

3 OOC games, 1 team from each conference
9 game regular season, 2 from other division
Division winners play each other.
Conference winners play in playoff.
 
A lot of noise would be made if Miami gets punished because they are the anti-establishment of the college football world. They bucked tradition and spit in its fact, and really don't give a damn what people said. The coaches and players seem to like that negative spotlight.

The "U" is very popular with people who have no association with the state or university for that reason. Kind of like the Raiders of the NFL.

Also, they have may high profile former players in the NFL currently and who have played/coached in the NFL who are very outspoken (Irving, Lewis, JJ, Sapp, Winslow, etc).
 
Didn't the very large defensive player (Hendersen?) and his father end up at Miami?

Makes one wonder...

I guess I was wrong about Miami not doing much since 2002. The fact still remains that these large "important" schools --UConn in BB and USC in football cheated and the cheating helped their recruiting and still does. Usc, when the penalities are over, will re-emerge as the top PAC 12 school. Osu, when it gets its hand slapped, will still recruit more 5 star players in one year while on probation than Iowa does in 10 years. These schools used cheating to improve their recruiting when they didn't even need it. The cheating just allowed them to recruit the biggest and best of 5 stars. For those schools, the cheating helped get them in all the appearances in championship games and BCS games and made their schools even MORE of a household name.

The silly little sanctions put on them by the NCAA doesn't slow them down a bit. They HAVE the name today (even larger than before) and THAT is all the kids look at.

The NCAA is a paper tiger at best. It certainly goes after the Morehead States soccer teams and such but they wouldn't DARE lay a finger on the golden big schools and they are not about to start now.
 
I think for the NCAA to survive they have to come down really hard on Miami, even death penalty. If they do not enforce the rules and be consistent (see SMU) then there really is no use for the NCAA.
 
I don't think they should get the death penalty, it's too punative to the other schools in the league. Just give them like a 6 year postseason ban and massive scholarship reductions. Making them play and making them really suck would be worse then them not playing.
 
gohawkz said:
Why can't the NCAA survive if they give them the death penalty? :confused:
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I think the only way the NCAA CAN survive is to give Miami the death penalty. If they don't then they are abandoning their role and the rule enforcer. If they are not going to enforce the rules they have no value.

The university presidents just met in Indy and said they wanted stiffer penalties. It is not the ADs that call the shots on belonging to the NCAA it is the university presidents and some of them will see this as a chance to get control of their university back from the football team.
 
hawkinaclownhouse said:
The university presidents just met in Indy and said they wanted stiffer penalties. It is not the ADs that call the shots on belonging to the NCAA it is the university presidents and some of them will see this as a chance to get control of their university back from the football team.
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Precisely.
 
hawkinaclownhouse said:
I think the only way the NCAA CAN survive is to give Miami the death penalty. If they don't then they are abandoning their role and the rule enforcer. If they are not going to enforce the rules they have no value.

The university presidents just met in Indy and said they wanted stiffer penalties. It is not the ADs that call the shots on belonging to the NCAA it is the university presidents and some of them will see this as a chance to get control of their university back from the football team.
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The problem is that they've already abandoned their role as the rule enforcer. Everyone from coaches, to ADs, to university presidents, to fans all want things cleaned up, however when it comes down to it the NCAA's established a new policy in which they essentially point out and investigate the violation, and then allow the violator to mildly sanction themselves and say "we've done everything in our power to clean this event up and it will not happen again", then slap them on the hand (not hard enough to bruise the surface) and accept the self imposed sanctions that are nothing more than a joke.

The NCAA's problem is that they're new method of enforcement is nothing more than allowing the corrupt to self govern themselves and punish ( I use the term lightly) from within, simply to make it look like they're doing their part to right the wrong. The NCAA has become a joke by the way they've handled things lately and until they start taking matters into their own hands and away from the institutions that are breaking these rules they will continue to have zero control and things will continue to spiral. The death penalty has long been needed to instill the fear in these violators and clean things up.
 
kicker22 said:
The problem is that they've already abandoned their role as the rule enforcer. Everyone from coaches, to ADs, to university presidents, to fans all want things cleaned up, however when it comes down to it the NCAA's established a new policy in which they essentially point out and investigate the violation, and then allow the violator to mildly sanction themselves and say "we've done everything in our power to clean this event up and it will not happen again", then slap them on the hand (not hard enough to bruise the surface) and accept the self imposed sanctions that are nothing more than a joke.

The NCAA's problem is that they're new method of enforcement is nothing more than allowing the corrupt to self govern themselves and punish ( I use the term lightly) from within, simply to make it look like they're doing their part to right the wrong. The NCAA has become a joke by the way they've handled things lately and until they start taking matters into their own hands and away from the institutions that are breaking these rules they will continue to have zero control and things will continue to spiral. The death penalty has long been needed to instill the fear in these violators and clean things up.
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I don't completely disagree with this,, but they did take a step in the direction of not allowing the university to set the punishment in the USC ruling. It will be interesting to see how they handle Ohio State. If they continue to dig on Oregon and Auburn and find what we all believe is there then they may have turned the corner.

If the NCAA wants to take charge one step that they could do is have the compliance officers at each institution be employees of the NCAA and not employees of the university. This could change the allegiance of the compliance officer and encourage a more independent role of that individual. Now the compliance officer is not going to challenge the football coach as they will lose their job.
 
Remember too the NCAA has a new president, a very smart and well-regarded guy(who we know out here from his time as UW president), who went on the record expressing disappointment at the rule loophole enabling the OSU guys to play in the bowl game, saying it needs to be closed. The NCAA has problems but they are moving in the direction of more not less enforcement.

Interesting idea for compliance officers, sort of like the embedded inspectors of USDA, SEC and some other agencies. That gets expensive though, because you'd still want and need a university-paid person to look out for the university's interests, providing guidance to the coaches and an early-warning system to university legal.
 
hawkinaclownhouse said:
I don't completely disagree with this,, but they did take a step in the direction of not allowing the university to set the punishment in the USC ruling. It will be interesting to see how they handle Ohio State. If they continue to dig on Oregon and Auburn and find what we all believe is there then they may have turned the corner.

If the NCAA wants to take charge one step that they could do is have the compliance officers at each institution be employees of the NCAA and not employees of the university. This could change the allegiance of the compliance officer and encourage a more independent role of that individual. Now the compliance officer is not going to challenge the football coach as they will lose their job.
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Absolutely love the idea of compliance officers being employees of the NCAA and not the university. Easier to do your job and monitor policy when you don't have to worry about ******* off the entity that is also paying your wages.
 
BryceC said:
I don't think they should get the death penalty, it's too punative to the other schools in the league. Just give them like a 6 year postseason ban and massive scholarship reductions. Making them play and making them really suck would be worse then them not playing.
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You obviously weren't around when SMU got the axe. SMU is a school in Dallas that was very anti-establishment too. They had big-oil money flowing into it, but nothing like what Miami did or to the scale in the numbers of players and coaches involved. After they took football away the effects were devastating. Anyway they kinda suck now, so making that argument won't work very well. Taking away football, black-balling the coaches and players affected, and allowing the players NOT PROVEN to have partaken to transfer without waiting to sit out a year is what's right. Look how long its taken SMU to come back. And you can add scholarship reductions and bowl bans to it too, when the program is allowed back.
 
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