Flemming/Williams

mopkins

mopkins

King Kong
Are they basically just losing a full year of their eligibility? Their chance at a redshirt is long gone (Flemming, 8 games, 71 minutes; Williams, 9 games, 45 minutes). Ellingson played 7 games last year but he was a medical redshirt which is different.

Just seems like they almost got the shaft for being more impressive in the offseason than Moss or Hutton.
 
This isn't football where you redshirt 60-70% of the players. Most players don't want to redshirt, and we do have to have depth. If Clemmons/Gesell/Jok get hurt during a game or miss some games those two would have to step up.
 
Moss and Hutton were the higher rated recruits.

Perhaps Fran strategically redshirted them knowing that a couple guys were basically going to waste a year of eligibility on the bench so he wanted his top 2 guys not to lose a year so he went this route.
 
ibahawkeye said:
Moss and Hutton were the higher rated recruits.

Perhaps Fran strategically redshirted them knowing that a couple guys were basically going to waste a year of eligibility on the bench so he wanted his top 2 guys not to lose a year so he went this route.
Click to expand...

I hope that's why.
 
ibahawkeye said:
Moss and Hutton were the higher rated recruits.

Perhaps Fran strategically redshirted them knowing that a couple guys were basically going to waste a year of eligibility on the bench so he wanted his top 2 guys not to lose a year so he went this route.
Click to expand...

Makes a ton of sense
 
ibahawkeye said:
Moss and Hutton were the higher rated recruits.

Perhaps Fran strategically redshirted them knowing that a couple guys were basically going to waste a year of eligibility on the bench so he wanted his top 2 guys not to lose a year so he went this route.
Click to expand...
Makes sense. Without getting in Fleming or Williams heads it's just impossible to know how they feel about it. But we'll just never know how those discussions before the season went as far as how the redshirting decisions were made. Unless a kid gets upset and transfers and spills the in house beans.. I dunno not every incoming freshman can expect to play big mins early I mean geez. There's only one ball. Iowa's not like Duke or KY where they have line shifts year in and year out. Iowa is a developmental program where our best players are groomed. Uthoff, White, Marble, Gatens, none of them were studs right out of the gate. Not even close. So it's on the kids to have been informed honestly so they'll have realistic expectations and just work hard and let things naturally develop. I think they all have the raw ability. Hope they all stick around I think that class has some big potential.
 
smbhawk1 said:
You can't redshirt everyone. My question would be, who are you going to take minutes from?
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting Fran do anything differently. I'm not about to offer a solution because I don't have one. Just an observation I noticed last night.

What's most troubling to me is that Williams right now is your only PG on the roster that returns next year. He'll be a soph with zero significant minutes. Clemmons and Gesell are lighting it up as seniors in part because they played significant minutes all 4 years.
 
I don't think it's a lost year...especially for Williams. We played a tough non conference schedule and open conference play with 8 tough games. The core 7 player rotation is set at this point with Ellingson and Wagner getting spot minutes.

Conference games are always tough but our last 10 games will be a step down in competition...no ranked teams. And Fleming and Williams will both have a few more weeks of practice, etc. under their belts. I think both will get minutes the last half of the conference season to help get them ready for next year. I have to think Williams is definitely going to get some time at the point as Fran looks ahead to next year.

Things are really clicking right now. There's no reason to rush either of these guys IMO.

Edit - I think Wagner will also get more minutes the last half of the season.
 
mopkins said:
I'm not suggesting Fran do anything differently. I'm not about to offer a solution because I don't have one. Just an observation I noticed last night.

What's most troubling to me is that Williams right now is your only PG on the roster that returns next year. He'll be a soph with zero significant minutes. Clemmons and Gesell are lighting it up as seniors in part because they played significant minutes all 4 years.
Click to expand...

Williams didn't redshirt for that very reason. He will be required to play significant minutes at PG next year. No, he's not playing big minutes this year. But he still is going through the preparation and a bit of time on the floor will speed him along for next year. I would guess that the potential upside on Hutton and Moss was big enough that it made sense to give them a 5th year. We can see what a 5th-year Uthoff looks like. No guarantee either Hutton or Moss approaches that level of productivity, but we will be glad 4 years from now when they are redshirt seniors.

Next year will be challenging for a whole host of reasons. You just don't lose the minutes and experience of Gessell, Woodbury, Clemmons and Uthoff and not have a dropoff.
 
mopkins said:
Are they basically just losing a full year of their eligibility? Their chance at a redshirt is long gone (Flemming, 8 games, 71 minutes; Williams, 9 games, 45 minutes). Ellingson played 7 games last year but he was a medical redshirt which is different.

Just seems like they almost got the shaft for being more impressive in the offseason than Moss or Hutton.
Click to expand...

I never read anywhere that they were more impressive than Moss or Hutton. It will be interesting to see if Fleming stays at Iowa after this year. I hope no one transfers, but if someone is thinking about it, I'd say Fleming might be the one.
 
Tierney said:
I never read anywhere that they were more impressive than Moss or Hutton. It will be interesting to see if Fleming stays at Iowa after this year. I hope no one transfers, but if someone is thinking about it, I'd say Fleming might be the one.
Click to expand...

I look at Fleming and Williams during timeouts and after big plays to see if they are engaged, smiling, interacting with teammates, etc. Fleming almost always is "engaged." I don't see it as much from Williams. But he's virtually guaranteed playing time next season and different guys have different personalities.

The top 6 guys in the rotation this year were 4 seniors and 2 juniors until Jones got hurt. I'm hopeful the young guys can look ahead 3 years from now and envision a rotation dominated by seniors and juniors. If someone does leave it's likely he can see the handwriting on the wall because there are a lot of minutes up for grabs next season.
 
Tierney said:
I never read anywhere that they were more impressive than Moss or Hutton. It will be interesting to see if Fleming stays at Iowa after this year. I hope no one transfers, but if someone is thinking about it, I'd say Fleming might be the one.
Click to expand...


Fran did say in an interview that Moss has the most potential of all the freshmen coming in.
 
deanvogs said:
This isn't football where you redshirt 60-70% of the players. Most players don't want to redshirt, and we do have to have depth. If Clemmons/Gesell/Jok get hurt during a game or miss some games those two would have to step up.
Click to expand...

If either MG or Sapp go down with an injury for any significant time, Williams will have to play. And you're right that hoops RS is different than football. Much of the time, the kids are already talented enough as freshmen, but they need strength and to learn the offense and defense. Fran needed to give Williams PT and needs him in case of injury. Flemming was given the opportunity to beat out Ellingson and didn't. Though, Ellingson isn't shooting as well as I thought he would, so don't count out Fleming getting another chance at PT.

Moss and Hutton wouldn't play in front of JU, Uhl or Jok, so it makes sense to RS them and stagger the class. I hope neither transfers.
 
Tierney said:
I never read anywhere that they were more impressive than Moss or Hutton. It will be interesting to see if Fleming stays at Iowa after this year. I hope no one transfers, but if someone is thinking about it, I'd say Fleming might be the one.
Click to expand...

I am wondering about Fleming also. Don't even see him on the floor during clean up minutes. I can understand it in a way because compared to most players on the team he seems a step slower in the few minutes he has played. Having said that as some have stated there will be significant minutes for everyone next season.

Fran seems to be going to Brady as one of the first or second players off the bench. He must do really well in practice because he seems to make a lot of mistakes when he is on the floor. Maybe he is trying too hard and needs to calm down and learn the skill of playing within himself. Once he starts to settle down and learns this skill he will probably be fine. I

I love what the walk on Baer is doing. Nebraska had a guy inside of his shirt the whole time he was on the floor. He is starting to garner a lot of attention from our opponents. It's always fun to watch the younger players step forward and earn their playing time.
 
Sometimes your personnel just have to sit and learn, observe what's going on and see how the upperclassmen are doing it...I agree minutes are very valuable and they will get in, but they have to learn how to make those minutes, quality minutes once they get the nod....
 
smbhawk1 said:
You can't redshirt everyone. My question would be, who are you going to take minutes from?
Click to expand...

I think Fleming could end up taking Brady's minutes. Brady has looked a little overmatched thus far in big 10 play (outside of that nice layup last night) and Fleming is a little more well built in my opinion.
 
Both of them had their opportunity to break into the lineup and they did not take advantage. They may have some tools but mentally they clearly were not readily.

Fleming had the longest leash of all the incoming freshman and he made far too many mistakes trying to prove he's something that he's not.

Christian needs to learn the value of the pass (not that he's selfish) and just watch how Mike operates the offense.
 
BigD said:
I am wondering about Fleming also. Don't even see him on the floor during clean up minutes. I can understand it in a way because compared to most players on the team he seems a step slower in the few minutes he has played. Having said that as some have stated there will be significant minutes for everyone next season.

Fran seems to be going to Brady as one of the first or second players off the bench. He must do really well in practice because he seems to make a lot of mistakes when he is on the floor. Maybe he is trying too hard and needs to calm down and learn the skill of playing within himself. Once he starts to settle down and learns this skill he will probably be fine. I

I love what the walk on Baer is doing. Nebraska had a guy inside of his shirt the whole time he was on the floor. He is starting to garner a lot of attention from our opponents. It's always fun to watch the younger players step forward and earn their playing time.
Click to expand...

Ellingson hasn't played much the last few games and Uhl and Baer are the first guys off the bench now.

I wouldn't mind if Fran starts giving Ellingsons minutes to Williams.
 
RocknRollface said:
Ellingson hasn't played much the last few games and Uhl and Baer are the first guys off the bench now.

I wouldn't mind if Fran starts giving Ellingsons minutes to Williams.
Click to expand...

Moss and Hutton both have high ceilings. Iowa does have a redshirt senior this year that seems to be playing pretty good.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Share this page

Top