83Hawk
Banned
Iowa has the most legitimate claim as 1958 national champion than any other team.
Ferentz years best in Iowa History? You be the judge
- Thread starter HawkPrdatr40
- Start date
Iowa has the most legitimate claim as 1958 national champion than any other team.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
I understand that sentiment but I just don't like to claim it. Last time I knew, even the University doesn't.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
<<No bad non-conference losses IMO>>
In other words, you weren't around for most, if not all, the Hayden years, or you would have remembered Tulsa in 1996, or the gross-looking 5-3 loss to Arizona in 1980. And he lost to ISU 3 years in a row, and started the slide in 1998 that led to 5 straight losses to ISU (the "benchmark" game cited by many KF haters)
As to Hayden's first non-conference years, he didn't schedule them. It was Hayden, in fact, that got the directionals, Tulsas, etc., on the schedule, and his reasoning was very solid: playing Nebraska/Oklahoma/Texas/Miami-caliber teams usually led to decimation-by-injury heading into the conference season.
BTW, people who cite Evy years, Howard Jones years, Alden Knipe years, Eddie Anderson years, etc., when they more than likely weren't even around for a good portion of the Hayden years? In wine parlance they call them "Sandpaper palates who mistakenly believe they taste with a velvet tongue". In other words, stop comparing KF years to ANY other years.
Someone cites a statement made in some obscure article and has to go ape-sh*t?
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hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
Certainly a good argument. He also was divisive as hell, and many believe he decimated the program after he left the sidelines. And they have as legitimate an argument as those who claim he was the best coach.
The National Championship claim is semi-legitimate. The "other" champ, LSU, LOST their bowl game, did not play an "integrated" schedule, nor did they have an "integrated" team OR conference. Iowa and other Big 10 schools were at or near the forefront on taking that stand, and of course, it was Hayden himself who began integration in the old Southwest Conference.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
I'm not entirely sure that I understand your convoluted post, but to say that I'm not allowed to compare the accomplishments of historical periods I did not witness is just plain stupid. There are many, many primary historical sources to fall back on. Any claim that the Evy years weren't the best in our history are just misfounded. We were the best program in the country for one five year period. Never in Iowa football history has that been replicated.
hawkeyebob62
Well-Known Member
It's not a convoluted post, it's your convoluted thinking. Some obscure article references KF years as Iowa's "best", and people have to take it to task. Who cares? Why compare? EVERY Iowa coach has had "bad" losses, EVERY Iowa coach has had "big" wins. But when you start citing records from other eras, you are comparing, at best, apples to oranges.
But if you want to take Evy as "best", I certainly won't argue. Nor would I argue that he nearly destroyed the program after he left the sidelines.
I have some of the same issues as other posters. The OP is off on a few categories. Not counting the first two years, both coaches had four seasons of more than five losses: Hayden (89, 92, 93, 98) and Ferentz (05, 06, 07, 11). You can count the Tulsa loss as bad for Hayden as they went 4-7 that year. I would even go so far as to say Penn State in 1984 when they went 6-5.
That's not true. LSU won their bowl game over #12 Clemson. Army, Auburn and Air Force (who tied Iowa that season) were three other schools that went undefeated...unlike Iowa.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
What article? What are you talking about? I'm responding to a thread where someone questioned when Iowa football's best years are, and then proceeded to omit Iowa football's best years. It seems to me that you view my thinking as "convoluted" because you assume that I have some kind of agenda.
Not everyone is politicking, here, hawkeyebob. We can debate eras' merits because that's what sports fans do. Because it's, you know, fun. It doesn't mean I want KF fired. It means that the Evy years were the best in our history. Plain and simple.
LG210
Well-Known Member
Catchy phrase.
ColumbusHawk
Well-Known Member
Other than Evy's last five years, the eight seasons from '02 through '09 is the best run in Iowa football history. Hayden only had two top ten seasons. After the '85 & '91 seasons. Both times at #10. Plus, three embarrassing losses in the Rose Bowl. The Rose Bowl games after the '85 & '90 seasons were over at half-time. Iowa was outscored by 57-17 in the first half of the two games.
You can put together Hayden's top eight seasons & they will not equal the run from '02 through '09. Another thing to consider is that Fry won his three titles when Penn State was not a member of the Big Ten.
You can put together Hayden's top eight seasons & they will not equal the run from '02 through '09. Another thing to consider is that Fry won his three titles when Penn State was not a member of the Big Ten.
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
I'm not picking and choosing I took Ferentz first 14 years and Hayden's first 14 years and threw out the first 2 to be fair to both. They both took over terrible teams.
wundergrape
Well-Known Member
But you also threw out Hayden's last 6 seasons, though. And all of Evy's. So, the more accurate title for this thread is "Ferentz 12 years the best 12 year period in Iowa History? You be the judge"....
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
No arguing that and I agree. I should have worded it differently. My point is KF has been good for Iowa there is no doubt about that, but when you look and compare the entire work he hasn't passed Hayden.
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
No doubt he is the greatest. I should have worded it differently. My point is that KF hasn't even passed Hayden so how can he be deemed the greatest. The Stephanie thread from call in show got me thinking about this.
Lazyness played a part it was 2:00am
Their body of work doesn't compare the times they coached in though. When Hayden coached, it was the Big 2 and the little 8. Hayden didn't have to worry about also playing Penn State almost every year or Wisconsin having a good program. Those are realities today. Northwestern is a LOT better than they were during most of Hayden's career too. Their careers are very similar to this point, but the biggest thing in favor of Hayden is that he had to resurrect the program.
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
Yes I was around Bob I'm 43 years old and I do remember the Tulsa game. However if you look I'm comparing the first 14 years of KF versus the first 14 year of Hayden. I threw out the first 2 to make it a fair comparison. KF body of work is still growing.
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
Look at the body of work. Look at who Iowa was playing in the non-conference.
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
So it isn't a fair comparison to show what they accomplished in the same time period. Why would I compare Hayden Fry's 20 years of work to Kirk's 14?? Does that make sense?
HawkPrdatr40
Well-Known Member
I changed the Thread Title toKirk Ferentz and Hayden Fry Comparing there first 14 years.
Listen the bottomline is this IMO KF isn't a better coach than Hayden Fry right now. In 6 years we will be able to judge the full body of work..
Yes I agree Forest had the greatest years, no doubt about that.
Listen the bottomline is this IMO KF isn't a better coach than Hayden Fry right now. In 6 years we will be able to judge the full body of work..
Yes I agree Forest had the greatest years, no doubt about that.
