Fans React Differently

Golfer

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how Iowa's fan demographics break down, and if it is different than other teams. I suspect it is similar, but weighted with more fans who aren't alumni. In some ways similar to Southern schools in this regard.

I find the alumni and students to be the hardest on the current state of the program. At least it appears that way to me with nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

I also find the season ticket holder's level of criticism seems to decrease as the size of donation goes up. Just my casual observation here again.

I'd speculate the larger donors runs businesses, and treat the football team's success the same way they have treated down years in their business. They would have a a perspective with a long term view.

I'd also speculate that the larger donors have had at least some personal interaction with coaches, etc., and this makes harsh criticism more difficult.

Having said this, when you're a guy like me, and are willing to buy seasons tickets, donate to the Foundation, drive upwards of 7 hours to away games, etc. etc. ad infinitium (sic), it is difficult to not expect some sort of return on investment.

I'm torn right now. This is extremely difficult to watch, but I still am looking backward to see who got us here. I still hang on to the notion that the people in charge saw this coming, and did make proactive changes, albeit too late in my estimation.

If I look back, as I do in business, in the aggregate we're not that different than other football programs who have experienced change and down years. Some fairly name brand programs as well.

Logic tells me I have no choice in this matter. Logic also tells me I need to wait until 2014 to make a judgement based on any sort of factual evidence, with respect tot he recent change.

My emotions tell me there is no way, even in down years, we should ever lose games to teams that are comprised of freshman and sophomores.
 

Cover3

Well-Known Member
I'm torn right now. This is extremely difficult to watch, but I still am looking backward to see who got us here. I still hang on to the notion that the people in charge saw this coming, and did make proactive changes, albeit too late in my estimation.

Players from Texas (Fry's good teams) and Florida (Ferentz's good early teams) got us here.
 

Tmoney12

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure how Iowa's fan demographics break down, and if it is different than other teams. I suspect it is similar, but weighted with more fans who aren't alumni. In some ways similar to Southern schools in this regard.

I find the alumni and students to be the hardest on the current state of the program. At least it appears that way to me with nothing more than anecdotal evidence.

I also find the season ticket holder's level of criticism seems to decrease as the size of donation goes up. Just my casual observation here again.

I'd speculate the larger donors runs businesses, and treat the football team's success the same way they have treated down years in their business. They would have a a perspective with a long term view.

I'd also speculate that the larger donors have had at least some personal interaction with coaches, etc., and this makes harsh criticism more difficult.

Having said this, when you're a guy like me, and are willing to buy seasons tickets, donate to the Foundation, drive upwards of 7 hours to away games, etc. etc. ad infinitium (sic), it is difficult to not expect some sort of return on investment.

I'm torn right now. This is extremely difficult to watch, but I still am looking backward to see who got us here. I still hang on to the notion that the people in charge saw this coming, and did make proactive changes, albeit too late in my estimation.

If I look back, as I do in business, in the aggregate we're not that different than other football programs who have experienced change and down years. Some fairly name brand programs as well.

Logic tells me I have no choice in this matter. Logic also tells me I need to wait until 2014 to make a judgement based on any sort of factual evidence, with respect tot he recent change.

My emotions tell me there is no way, even in down years, we should ever lose games to teams that are comprised of freshman and sophomores.

My suggestion is to live life as a G, invest in the basketball team. Fran is taking us places. Ferentz isn't.
 
D

DDThompson

Guest
You neglected generational differences.

The more senior the generation remembers a time before Fry. Those were some very bad years of football. Fry and Ferentz have built and sustained a level not seen in the program's history.


The younger generations, who often thinks history starts the day they were born, were born during the Fry-Ferentz years and have seen relatively constant success with a few great seasons thrown in. And the younger generation has been tainted with XBox college football games where they can make the Hawks national champions every season on the field (even if they have to hit reset or play at the lowest level to do so).

There's good things to be taken from both. The younger generations should look at history and see when someone says, "We're Iowa" and understand it. The older generations should look at the "What do you mean, 'we're Iowa'" and understand it. One wants to go to the "next" level while the other is at the "next" level from the wilderness years.

I want a shot at the "next" level every now and again (NC talk), but right now the "next" level is just getting back to winning seasons in the B1G. I am not content with .500 records in BigTen play, and certainly not with losing records.

But I am also just barely old enough to remember the bad football before Fry and remember the stories from my pop. This is not that bad football, but it is heading that way. I have some patience for Ferentz to correct the situation; he's done it before and has taken the program to levels it has not been at. The problem is too much patience may very well lead to the same football before Fry.

Ferentz is at the tipping point.
 

ATLHawkeye

Well-Known Member
I agree that we must wait a couple years to accurately judge the impact this year's changes will have on the program. Being in the south, all I see is SEC football, so consequently I see a lot of it. What I see is that the game plan Greg Davis has implemented is not all that different than the good teams down here... Alabama, for example.

The difference is simply that they make the plays and we don't. The talent level is obviously at a different level. I do believe we will see an improvement in recruiting with BF and LW, and hopefully make some inroads into Texas.

We'll see.
 

Cover3

Well-Known Member
You neglected generational differences.

The more senior the generation remembers a time before Fry. Those were some very bad years of football. Fry and Ferentz have built and sustained a level not seen in the program's history.


The younger generations, who often thinks history starts the day they were born, were born during the Fry-Ferentz years and have seen relatively constant success with a few great seasons thrown in. And the younger generation has been tainted with XBox college football games where they can make the Hawks national champions every season on the field (even if they have to hit reset or play at the lowest level to do so).

There's good things to be taken from both. The younger generations should look at history and see when someone says, "We're Iowa" and understand it. The older generations should look at the "What do you mean, 'we're Iowa'" and understand it. One wants to go to the "next" level while the other is at the "next" level from the wilderness years.

I want a shot at the "next" level every now and again (NC talk), but right now the "next" level is just getting back to winning seasons in the B1G. I am not content with .500 records in BigTen play, and certainly not with losing records.

But I am also just barely old enough to remember the bad football before Fry and remember the stories from my pop. This is not that bad football, but it is heading that way. I have some patience for Ferentz to correct the situation; he's done it before and has taken the program to levels it has not been at. The problem is too much patience may very well lead to the same football before Fry.

Ferentz is at the tipping point.

Very well thought-out. A good balance between the two positions. I'll cop to being 27 and wanting to get to the 'next level.' Honestly, though, I just want to win games like CMU 95% of the time and have some sort of reliable flow to most seasons. Last year, if we beat Minnesota (terrible team we vastly outplayed) and ISU (face it, they turned a corner much later in the year than September), then we would have been 8-1 and the Division front-runners in November. Just a HUGE difference from 6-3 and didn't require any more talent than we had.
 

philhater

Active Member
You could also break it down by fans who live in other parts of the country. Those of us who don't live around Iowa and see the freakish high school talent in the south realize just how woeful the talent on this team is. Players on like Bigach, Alvis, and Miller wouldn't make walk-ons on some BCS schools............yet here they are starting for Iowa.
 
D

DDThompson

Guest
Very well thought-out. A good balance between the two positions. I'll cop to being 27 and wanting to get to the 'next level.' Honestly, though, I just want to win games like CMU 95% of the time and have some sort of reliable flow to most seasons. Last year, if we beat Minnesota (terrible team we vastly outplayed) and ISU (face it, they turned a corner much later in the year than September), then we would have been 8-1 and the Division front-runners in November. Just a HUGE difference from 6-3 and didn't require any more talent than we had.
Thanks, Cover.

I agree with you completely. Kirk's record against lower-tier teams (like Minnesota, Indiana, Illinois), while a winning record, is not good enough. Kirk's losing record against mid-level teams (like NW and ISU) is unacceptable. Iowa should never lose to a directional Michigan team. Never.

Kirk has a good record against the upper-tier teams in the B1G (minus OSU). But it's his record against mid- to lower-tier teams that seems to have most of the fans up-in-arms...and with just cause. Losing to those teams gives ammunition that the "next" level is down not up.
 

tm3308

Well-Known Member
You neglected generational differences.

The more senior the generation remembers a time before Fry. Those were some very bad years of football. Fry and Ferentz have built and sustained a level not seen in the program's history.


The younger generations, who often thinks history starts the day they were born, were born during the Fry-Ferentz years and have seen relatively constant success with a few great seasons thrown in. And the younger generation has been tainted with XBox college football games where they can make the Hawks national champions every season on the field (even if they have to hit reset or play at the lowest level to do so).

There's good things to be taken from both. The younger generations should look at history and see when someone says, "We're Iowa" and understand it. The older generations should look at the "What do you mean, 'we're Iowa'" and understand it. One wants to go to the "next" level while the other is at the "next" level from the wilderness years.

I want a shot at the "next" level every now and again (NC talk), but right now the "next" level is just getting back to winning seasons in the B1G. I am not content with .500 records in BigTen play, and certainly not with losing records.

But I am also just barely old enough to remember the bad football before Fry and remember the stories from my pop. This is not that bad football, but it is heading that way. I have some patience for Ferentz to correct the situation; he's done it before and has taken the program to levels it has not been at. The problem is too much patience may very well lead to the same football before Fry.

Ferentz is at the tipping point.

There are definitely some good points in this. However, as Jon said on Soundoff last night, the dark days are now more than 30 years in the rearview mirror. Iowa is no longer one of the Big Ten's laughingstocks. Things change over time, and Iowa stepped away from that losing identity.

For me, the next level isn't winning 11-12 games every year and being consistent national title contenders. That's not going to happen at Iowa, and I've accepted that. It hasn't and won't happen at K-State, either. Snyder has twice built a great program down there, but even he isn't/wasn't a title contender every year. Programs with the disadvantages that an Iowa, K-State, or Wisconsin have, in this day and age, will never be on Ohio State/Alabama/etc.'s level.

But I think there's a level between where Iowa has been, and the blue bloods. Wisconsin is on it, and so is K-State under Snyder. Wisconsin has won 10 or more games in 5 of the last 7 seasons, and has a chance to do it again this year. They could have been title contenders last year, but that hasn't and won't be the norm for them. But winning 10 games has become the norm up there, and they've elevated themselves to that level just a notch below Ohio State/Michigan.

THAT is a level that's attainable for a program like Iowa. They've had two opportunities to make that leap under Ferentz (2005-2006, 2010), and let both chances slip away. But that's the highest I think anybody can realistically expect the program to go, and that'd hardly be a bad thing. That's competing for the Rose Bowl in most years, with maybe a NC run once every 10 years or so.
 

1977Hawkeye

Well-Known Member
There are definitely some good points in this. However, as Jon said on Soundoff last night, the dark days are now more than 30 years in the rearview mirror. Iowa is no longer one of the Big Ten's laughingstocks. Things change over time, and Iowa stepped away from that losing identity.

For me, the next level isn't winning 11-12 games every year and being consistent national title contenders. That's not going to happen at Iowa, and I've accepted that. It hasn't and won't happen at K-State, either. Snyder has twice built a great program down there, but even he isn't/wasn't a title contender every year. Programs with the disadvantages that an Iowa, K-State, or Wisconsin have, in this day and age, will never be on Ohio State/Alabama/etc.'s level.

But I think there's a level between where Iowa has been, and the blue bloods. Wisconsin is on it, and so is K-State under Snyder. Wisconsin has won 10 or more games in 5 of the last 7 seasons, and has a chance to do it again this year. They could have been title contenders last year, but that hasn't and won't be the norm for them. But winning 10 games has become the norm up there, and they've elevated themselves to that level just a notch below Ohio State/Michigan.

THAT is a level that's attainable for a program like Iowa. They've had two opportunities to make that leap under Ferentz (2005-2006, 2010), and let both chances slip away. But that's the highest I think anybody can realistically expect the program to go, and that'd hardly be a bad thing. That's competing for the Rose Bowl in most years, with maybe a NC run once every 10 years or so.

Pretty good post. Just like what Wisconsin is doing right now, that's essentially what Iowa was doing from 2002-04, and 2008-09. I would say that in 2002 & 2009, Iowa had an outside shot at getting into the national title game. They may not (or probably would not have) gotten in even if Iowa hadn't lost to ISU in 2002 or NW/OSU in 2009, but they were at least in the hunt, and that was a lot of fun.

Other years, like 2003/04, and 2008 - the teams won 9-10 games. They weren't in the national title picture at all, but they were fun teams to watch, were nationally ranked, and played in good bowl games. Not just "any" bowl game, but GOOD ones.

The way things have been the past 3 years - totally unacceptable. Iowa can, and SHOULD, do better. I'd be perfectly happy with years like what we saw in 2003/04, etc. with the occasional shot at getting into the title picture maybe once or twice a decade, give or take. Even if it doesn't, winning 9-10 games like Wisconsin has been would be fine by me.
 
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Golfer

Well-Known Member
Yes. Agree. Two year's ago I posted about winning 8 games, and how the current state was unacceptable. I got ripped. I mentioned we didn't have any inherent disadvantages that weren't similar to several other schools, and it was pointed out to me I was an idiot. Two year's ago seems like a long time ago.

I guess it is what it is, and in 2014, we all need to take another look. I didn't expect much this year. I'm on record that coaching changes take at least three years, but yesterday, given the makeup of Indiana's team, was revealing.
 

tm3308

Well-Known Member
Yes. Agree. Two year's ago I posted about winning 8 games, and how the current state was unacceptable. I got ripped. I mentioned we didn't have any inherent disadvantages that weren't similar to several other schools, and it was pointed out to me I was an idiot. Two year's ago seems like a long time ago.

I guess it is what it is, and in 2014, we all need to take another look. I didn't expect much this year. I'm on record that coaching changes take at least three years, but yesterday, given the makeup of Indiana's team, was revealing.

I think my breaking point will be the midway mark of the 2014 season. If we're still playing remotely like this, and have little reason to expect 2015 to be any better, then I'll be ready to call it quits on Ferentz. That's still a ways off, though, and I hope it doesn't come to that.
 

redhawk55

Banned
looking at Fry hev was here 19 years and had his ups and downs going to 3 rose bowls in that time frame.
KF came in just as the team was going inot a tail spin and pulled Iowa out of that tail spin and took Iowa to OB in 10 years went 6-4 in bowl games against teams like Florida, LSU, USC, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Missuori and GT, and yet people complain about the type of Bowl games Iowa goes to try looking at who they play vs where its played,
some of byou have turned into snobs and are getting as bad as Notre Dame fans
this what the donors and Barta look at not just 1 or 2 down year they look at the "WHOLE" BODY OF WORK. unlike some fans that only have the attitude of what have you done for "ME" TODAY
 
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Golfer

Well-Known Member
Business is pretty much what have you done for me lately. I try not to react that way, but I have some serious doubts about Iowa football after yesterday and also PSU. The other losses I can reconcile, but the breakdown in terms of class age for Indiana, and not as much PSU have me wondering how it ever got to this point.

The attrition someone has to be responsible for.Who was it? The former assistants? I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure we find out in the next two seasons.
 

tm3308

Well-Known Member
looking at Fry hev was here 19 years and had his ups and downs going to 3 rose bowls in that time frame.
KF came in just as the team was going inot a tail spin and pulled Iowa out of that tail spin and took Iowa to OB in 10 years went 6-4 in bowl games against teams like Florida, LSU, USC, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Missuori and GT, and yet people complain about the type of Bowl games Iowa goes to try looking at who they play vs where its played,
some of byou have turned into snobs and are getting as bad as Notre Dame fans
this what the donors and Barta look at not just 1 or 2 down year they look at the "WHOLE" BODY OF WORK. unlike some fans that only have the attitude of what have you done for "ME" TODAY

Florida wasn't anything special in 2003. Neither was South Carolina.

Forget about who we were playing. In the Big Ten, you don't end up in the Alamo Bowl because you had a good season. You end up there because you finished outside of the upper tier in the conference. The fact that the Big 12 puts higher value on it is irrelevant. For Big Ten teams, the Alamo Bowl wasn't one you boasted about going to. The Outback Bowl has pretty much been the cutoff point for that.

And getting as bad as Notre Dame fans? Get a clue. The majority of Ferentz's accomplishments are 8 years old. Willie Mays had a tremendous body of work. Doesn't mean he didn't suck when he was with the Mets.
 

blubberhawk

Well-Known Member
You neglected generational differences.

The more senior the generation remembers a time before Fry. Those were some very bad years of football. Fry and Ferentz have built and sustained a level not seen in the program's history.


The younger generations, who often thinks history starts the day they were born, were born during the Fry-Ferentz years and have seen relatively constant success with a few great seasons thrown in. And the younger generation has been tainted with XBox college football games where they can make the Hawks national champions every season on the field (even if they have to hit reset or play at the lowest level to do so).

There's good things to be taken from both. The younger generations should look at history and see when someone says, "We're Iowa" and understand it. The older generations should look at the "What do you mean, 'we're Iowa'" and understand it. One wants to go to the "next" level while the other is at the "next" level from the wilderness years.

I want a shot at the "next" level every now and again (NC talk), but right now the "next" level is just getting back to winning seasons in the B1G. I am not content with .500 records in BigTen play, and certainly not with losing records.

But I am also just barely old enough to remember the bad football before Fry and remember the stories from my pop. This is not that bad football, but it is heading that way. I have some patience for Ferentz to correct the situation; he's done it before and has taken the program to levels it has not been at. The problem is too much patience may very well lead to the same football before Fry.

Ferentz is at the tipping point.

FYI
Losing to ISU, Central Michigan and Indiana constitutes bad football.
 

Cover3

Well-Known Member
Willie Mays had a tremendous body of work. Doesn't mean he didn't suck when he was with the Mets.

This legit made me lol. I think he's the best in baseball history, but this is so true. Past accomplishments really don't guarantee anything, and for Ferentz, there has been no middle ground between the AP top ten and .500 ball (save for 2008, which should have been in the top ten). For those who point out Ferentz's consistency, Fry's teams scarcely played as soft of a schedule as we do now. Yes, NW and Wisconsin were terrible for much of his tenure, but Indiana and Illinois were respectable. I don't think it's snobbish at all to think 5-7 or 4-8 would be unacceptable against a schedule including NIU, CMU, Indiana, UNI, Purdue, and Minnesota. Yes, MSU was a great win, but it's very difficult to get fewer than four wins these days against Iowa's slate (except next year when we trade IU and PSU for OSU and Wisc).
 

blubberhawk

Well-Known Member
looking at Fry hev was here 19 years and had his ups and downs going to 3 rose bowls in that time frame.
KF came in just as the team was going inot a tail spin and pulled Iowa out of that tail spin and took Iowa to OB in 10 years went 6-4 in bowl games against teams like Florida, LSU, USC, South Carolina, Oklahoma, Missuori and GT, and yet people complain about the type of Bowl games Iowa goes to try looking at who they play vs where its played,
some of byou have turned into snobs and are getting as bad as Notre Dame fans
this what the donors and Barta look at not just 1 or 2 down year they look at the "WHOLE" BODY OF WORK. unlike some fans that only have the attitude of what have you done for "ME" TODAY

Ferentz got owned yesterday. Iowa was beaten by a bunch of 1* freshman and sophomores. (and we have the audacity to bring up injuries we have sustained when talking about the loss.) All teams have injuries this time of year. Iowa was lit up yesterday by a back up quarterback. Pathetic loss and a pathetic effort by Ferentz in both having his team ready and "in game" coaching.
 
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