Expansion tidbit from the NW board

[spliff45]

Got this post from someone off the Northwestern board.

I just had a few beers tonight with a friend who works for the Big Ten here in Chicago. According to him, the Big Ten has focused their efforts on and is getting hot with three schools: Notre Dame, Texas, and Nebraska.

A few things stood out about what he told me. First, contrary to my understanding of the benefits of expansion, the Big Ten is NOT pursuing a playoff system in football. Instead of a playoff, the football teams would all be required to add an additional one or two out of conference game, which would push the regular season back one week or two. The Big Ten wants to maintain the end of season rivalry games at the end of the football season as opposed to adding a playoff.

Second, the Big Ten, Texas and Notre Dame are discussing a special rule to accommodate both of those schools. Instead of playing 8 games, both Texas and ND would play 7 to enable each school to play 6 out of conference games. That's apparently the caveat that brought both to the table, and Texas and ND also want to play each other every year. The tradeoff is that an 8-0 Big Ten team would always trump a 7-0 ND/Texas as conference champion, which is a potential logistical sticking point for the Big Ten and these teams. But apparently ND and Texas value the extra OOC game more than the conference championship potential, and ND and Texas want to play each other every year making the tie between two 7-0 teams impossible. They're also looking at potentially giving a automatic BCS slot for a 7-0 ND/Texas Big Ten team that loses the conference championship to an 8-0 team as a carrot, where the 8-0 team could still get the at-large but isn't guaranteed.

Finally, the Big East is essentially pushing ND to discussions with the Big Ten. The Big East has presented an ultimatum to ND to play football or get out of the conference for the other sports in order to protect the integrity of the remainder of the conference. Apparently discussions have taken place between the Big Ten and the Big East, and the current understanding is that the Big Ten will not accept any other Big East schools if ND joins the Big Ten. ND also will retain a national schedule, particularly with Texas joining, where it would have the ability to schedule 6 OOC games plus one game with Texas. This means they're picking up only three additional games with Big Ten schools while playing in the conference.


I can't see this happening.

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[ShadasRevenge]

Got this post from someone off the Northwestern board.

I just had a few beers tonight with a friend who works for the Big Ten here in Chicago. According to him, the Big Ten has focused their efforts on and is getting hot with three schools: Notre Dame, Texas, and Nebraska.

A few things stood out about what he told me. First, contrary to my understanding of the benefits of expansion, the Big Ten is NOT pursuing a playoff system in football. Instead of a playoff, the football teams would all be required to add an additional one or two out of conference game, which would push the regular season back one week or two. The Big Ten wants to maintain the end of season rivalry games at the end of the football season as opposed to adding a playoff.

Second, the Big Ten, Texas and Notre Dame are discussing a special rule to accommodate both of those schools. Instead of playing 8 games, both Texas and ND would play 7 to enable each school to play 6 out of conference games. That's apparently the caveat that brought both to the table, and Texas and ND also want to play each other every year. The tradeoff is that an 8-0 Big Ten team would always trump a 7-0 ND/Texas as conference champion, which is a potential logistical sticking point for the Big Ten and these teams. But apparently ND and Texas value the extra OOC game more than the conference championship potential, and ND and Texas want to play each other every year making the tie between two 7-0 teams impossible. They're also looking at potentially giving a automatic BCS slot for a 7-0 ND/Texas Big Ten team that loses the conference championship to an 8-0 team as a carrot, where the 8-0 team could still get the at-large but isn't guaranteed.

Finally, the Big East is essentially pushing ND to discussions with the Big Ten. The Big East has presented an ultimatum to ND to play football or get out of the conference for the other sports in order to protect the integrity of the remainder of the conference. Apparently discussions have taken place between the Big Ten and the Big East, and the current understanding is that the Big Ten will not accept any other Big East schools if ND joins the Big Ten. ND also will retain a national schedule, particularly with Texas joining, where it would have the ability to schedule 6 OOC games plus one game with Texas. This means they're picking up only three additional games with Big Ten schools while playing in the conference.


I can't see this happening.

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None of that makes any sense whatsoever.

 

[theboat]

None of that makes any sense whatsoever.

Agreed. I don't see any way they do this. One thing about the big ten, they may want TX and ND but they will not allow those schools to be bigger than the conference and let them play by their own rules.

 

[Raziel]

None of that makes any sense whatsoever.

That actually makes a ton of sense and would explain why the Big East has recently come out criticizing ND for not playing football in the league. If you're the Big East, and the Big Ten offers to leave your league alone if you kick out ND, what choice do you have? You have to kick out ND.

 

[SCHawk]

I would say your friend has loose lips.

 

[jshawks]

Agreed. I don't see any way they do this. One thing about the big ten, they may want TX and ND but they will not allow those schools to be bigger than the conference and let them play by their own rules.

I totally agree. The Big 10 can just about have their pick of schools, and while ND and Texas would be a nice trophy for the Big 10, there is no way they run the risk of ******* off the current member schools with any special deals for ND and Texas, especially with Nebraska, Mizzou, Pitt, Rutgers etc. appearing willing to come without any strings attatched.

 

[carneyhawk]

Loose lips sink ships!!!

 

[JonDMiller]

The 7-0/8-0 thing seems like what would be a non-starter. Making special accommodations for two teams that have never been in the league when the league already is in the catbird seat? I don't see that.

I really don't want to see Texas in the Big Ten. Not at all.

 

[Raziel]

The 7-0/8-0 thing seems like what would be a non-starter. Making special accommodations for two teams that have never been in the league when the league already is in the catbird seat? I don't see that.

I really don't want to see Texas in the Big Ten. Not at all.

I agree...I don't see that happening. What I could see, however, would be a 7 game conference schedule for everyone....if that would seal the deal for Texas/ND, I'd be OK with that. Assuming, of course, that the Big Ten goes to 16 and uses the 4 division system - you play the other 3 teams in your division plus 4 teams from a division that is bracketed every two seasons.

The interesting thing would be, if the Big Ten is planning on going to 16, and they've given the Big East their word that they won't touch any Big East teams if the Big Ten gets ND, then the last two teams likely have to come from....where? The ACC? I don't like 14 teams because it becomes more difficult to maintain rivalries.....16 allows you to maintain (locked/immediate) rivalries with the 4 division system.

So, geographically, if you're going after ACC teams, you'd need to look at Boston College, Maryland, Viginia, Va Tech, UNC, Duke, or Wake Forest in all liklihood. Boston College and Maryland being the most likely.

 

[bhawk326]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that even if ND and Texas were given the right to play only 7 conference games (I highly doubt this would be allowed by the Big Ten), they still cannot play 6 OOC games regardless if there is a conference championship or not unless a change is made to the NCAA Bylaws. NCAA Bylaw 17.9.5.2(c) only allows for an exception of the 12 game regular season in the case of a conference championship, hence no 13th regular season game for any team.

 

[PENNHWK]

Here's the Trib's Teddy Greenstein from Friday. Big Ten expansion Q&A - chicagotribune.com
Interesting. (apologies if already posted)

 

[Raziel]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that even if ND and Texas were given the right to play only 7 conference games (I highly doubt this would be allowed by the Big Ten), they still cannot play 6 OOC games regardless if there is a conference championship or not unless a change is made to the NCAA Bylaws. NCAA Bylaw 17.9.5.2(c) only allows for an exception of the 12 game regular season in the case of a conference championship, hence no 13th regular season game for any team.

That bylaw must not be followed too strictly....just last year Navy played 13 regular season games and won their bowl game to finish 10-4.

In 2002 I know Ohio State also played 13 games. I don't know how many times teams play 13 regular season games, but I do know it has happened as recently as 2009.

 

[GHawk]

The key to this whole post is the first sentence of the OP "I just had a few beers tonight with a friend " .

 

[TecmoSuperHawk]

That bylaw must not be followed too strictly....just last year Navy played 13 regular season games and won their bowl game to finish 10-4.

In 2002 I know Ohio State also played 13 games. I don't know how many times teams play 13 regular season games, but I do know it has happened as recently as 2009.

There is an exception for Hawaii and teams that play @ Hawaii. Navy played Hawaii last year, so they were allowed an extra non-conference game. Boise State played 14 games too (counting bowl game) since they played at Hawaii.

 

[HawkForce]

No way would the Big Ten cater to two teams that are not in the league....Can you imagine the fit "the big two" would throw?

 

[Thawki]

It's not like the B10 would just let these schools in by cutting a special deal with them and then the schools in the conference would be mad this was allowed to happen. It isn't like this deal can get done without the current member schools okaying the deal. Delaney doesn't just do this without consideration from the members. The members would vote on allowing schools in and so this wouldn't happen unless enough schools want it to happen, which wouldn't happen.

I do have one question though. How many votes are needed in something like this for it to pass?

 

[bhawk326]

Raziel, there are other exemptions in 17.9.5.2 including playing at Hawaii and playing in "Classic" games. In 2002, Ohio State played in the Pigskin Classic against Texas Tech allowing 14 games to be played (including the bowl game). In 2002, Iowa State played in the Eddie Robinson Classic against Florida State allowing for 14 games. Since I believe all of the Classic games have gone to the wayside, unless ND and Texas play Hawaii (the rule requires playing in Hawaii) every year I don't think they will be allowed to play 14 games.

 

[Hawke]

Define "a few beers".

 

[HeneryHawk]

No to Texas.

Add ND, Mizzou, Nebraska.

Seems like a winner.

 

[loesshillshawk]

Mark it down it will ND only to the B10