Epenesa Media Backlash. Oh the humanity...

[Fryowa]

Would you concede that "always putting the best eligible players on the field" changes with each snap of the football and that what you or I or anyone else on this board (or Kirk or James or Phil or etc.) consider to be the "best eligible player" at one particular time is not always the same?

Absolutely.

Would you also consider that we see these young men a total of about 15 times per year (including bowl games, spring "games") and that the coaches may have a better perspective on who the "best eligible player" is because they see them 15 times in the spring and a whole lot more during the season?

See my reply to @mopkins below

It's easy to say someone is a "gamer". But as a coach all you've got to go on is what is demonstrated in practice (which you hope is translated to games). If I see a kid who works his tail off in practice and shows me results, I'll play him before I play a kid I believe to be better but is slacking in practice and is showing the same results.

This one I don't agree with. At the D-1, Power Five level I don't care who works the hardest in practice as long as they play the best at that spot. If Akrum Wadley was a total dickhead to teammates, didn't speak to media, and was lazy at practice (none of which are remotely true), I'd still play him at RB over IKM. I know you said "showing the same results," but that premise doesn't exist. I played sports all the way from elementary school through high school, baseball in college, and coach travel baseball teams to this day, and I can 100% honestly say I've never had two teammates nor coached two players where I'd say they produced the same. It just doesn't happen. One player is always better or worse than another at a particular skill. When I'm coaching say 5th graders, behavior and work ethic definitely come into play. By the time you get to the B1G, give me the guy who's going to score the most points or make the most tackles.

The time for being a guidance counselor and a football coach at the same time is over once you get to this level. Or it should be at least, Kirk (if you're listening out there).

 

[4thngoal]

Absolutely.

See my reply to @mopkins below

This one I don't agree with. At the D-1, Power Five level I don't care who works the hardest in practice as long as they play the best at that spot. If Akrum Wadley was a total dickhead to teammates, didn't speak to media, and was lazy at practice (none of which are remotely true), I'd still play him at RB over IKM. I know you said "showing the same results," but that premise doesn't exist. I played sports all the way from elementary school through high school, baseball in college, and coach travel baseball teams to this day, and I can 100% honestly say I've never had two teammates nor coached two players where I'd say they produced the same. It just doesn't happen. One player is always better or worse than another at a particular skill. When I'm coaching say 5th graders, behavior and work ethic definitely come into play. By the time you get to the B1G, give me the guy who's going to score the most points or make the most tackles.

The time for being a guidance counselor and a football coach at the same time is over once you get to this level. Or it should be at least, Kirk (if you're listening out there).

I don't think it's guidance counselor. I think it's, work ethic, which does have its place in college.
What I don't agree with (my roofer analogy) is I think, like you, that some people are more gifted then others. Who would have ever imagined, we can't be good at all things and need others to help or contribute to make it.
Holding back a gift is part of the problem with playing work ethic over it and it's a disservice to everyone. Is this not the premise to switching positions????

 

[hawkdrummer1]

This debate comes back to another class Kirk topic, what is the "best player" or one that "gives us the best chance to win".

Kirk tends to believe it's the one who makes the fewest mistakes (in practice). Others believe it's the guy who is most capable of making plays.

While Kirk has made some baby steps toward play making, this will likely never change.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

It’s not commendable nor is it understandable.

Commendable by a football coach would be always putting the best eligible players on the field at all times. Which would then be understandable.

I don’t care about seniors being butthurt if a better player steps ahead of them. This whole thing is about winning games, not seniority or popularity.

I suppose you're critical of USC's decision last season to insert a blind long snapper in for one play, or probably hate that Rudy saw the field for Notre Dame?

You can make the case that sentiment or loyalty plays no part in college athletics, but many fans would see that as a rather cold black and white perspective, albeit one to which you are entitled.

To many of us, college athletics is more than the bottom line at the W/L column. It is commendable for a coach to give the benefit of the doubt to a player that has been dedicated to the program and put the work in over the long haul, over a young talented upstart, assuming - and this is important - that the players are at least close in results.

That said, I agree with you that the best players should be the ones seeing the field, but that's a separate issue. A coach being loyal to his veteran players is a commendable trait, be it smart or not.

 

[DDThompson]

Of course it’s a legit question.

This debate comes back to another class Kirk topic, what is the "best player" or one that "gives us the best chance to win".

Kirk tends to believe it's the one who makes the fewest mistakes (in practice). Others believe it's the guy who is most capable of making plays.

While Kirk has made some baby steps toward play making, this will likely never change.

nailed it.

Eppy is going to have to show he’s demonstrably better on game day to get starter reps.

 

[DDThompson]

Of course it’s a legit question to ask about KF’s senior card.

It’d be nice for the Outragers to have some context—it’s spring ball not September ball.

And the question is meaningless when the kid’s dad says, my kid can learn from KF and from Hesse.

Mic Drop

 

[trj]

This is the biggest misconception about Iowa football. Nothing is further from the truth. Its on equal footing when I hear "NBA players don't play defense". If you believe either statement to be true, its pretty obvious you're not paying attention at all or you simply don't watch period.

Several FR play under Ferentz, including guys who aren't necessarily the best athletes on the team at their position. How can this be? Its simple, Ferentz values knowledge of the playbook and fundamentals. If he doesn't trust that you know your assignments, or that you can't play with a level of discipline, you don't play. If you do know your assignments, he's shown he'll play guys who are of marginal talent for B1G level football, regardless of their age/experience.

I guess I don’t watch because they actually do play defense in the NBA.

 

[Xerxes]

I guess I don’t watch because they actually do play defense in the NBA.

That is what I was implying. People saying that nba players don’t play defense is a common misconception. When people say it I know they don’t watch it, at least not watching teams that are good

 

[trj]

That is what I was implying. People saying that nba players don’t play defense is a common misconception. When people say it I know they don’t watch it, at least not watching teams that are good

My bad. I thought you were going the other way with that. Let me touch up on my reading comprehension skills.

 

[PlanoHawk]

Lots of potential for this thread. Let’s not move it to greatness yet, though. Certainly not better than older, more established threads before it. Yet...

 

[peerok]

It would seem to me that if a coach WASN'T playing the players that gave his team the best chance to succeed, he'd lose the respect of his team pretty quickly. Even during Iowa's disappointing seasons, I've never had the feeling that KF was losing his team. If you want an example of what I'm talking about, look at the past season at Tennessee or Nebraska.

 

[bhalbur]

Absolutely.

See my reply to @mopkins below

This one I don't agree with. At the D-1, Power Five level I don't care who works the hardest in practice as long as they play the best at that spot. If Akrum Wadley was a total dickhead to teammates, didn't speak to media, and was lazy at practice (none of which are remotely true), I'd still play him at RB over IKM. I know you said "showing the same results," but that premise doesn't exist. I played sports all the way from elementary school through high school, baseball in college, and coach travel baseball teams to this day, and I can 100% honestly say I've never had two teammates nor coached two players where I'd say they produced the same. It just doesn't happen. One player is always better or worse than another at a particular skill. When I'm coaching say 5th graders, behavior and work ethic definitely come into play. By the time you get to the B1G, give me the guy who's going to score the most points or make the most tackles.

The time for being a guidance counselor and a football coach at the same time is over once you get to this level. Or it should be at least, Kirk (if you're listening out there).

Well you have to continue to give guidance to the players. These are 18-22 year olds, and honestly I would bet NFL coaches need to continue that as well. Also, if you promote a player even if they are not listening to the coaches that can create a negative environment. There are plenty of instances of NFL teams dropping what is considered a more talented player and becoming better because of the negative impact on the team that that player created. On top of that player A isn't putting in the extra work and gets to be the starter, do you really think that will motivate the players behind him? Not a great enviornment.

 

[kameltoez102]

The whole hub bub of this story is just stupid. So he doesn't start during spring ball or the regular rseason, it isn't like he will not see any snaps. AJ played a ton of snaps as a true freshman and was productive. It isn't like he isn't playing at all. Much to do about nothing

 

[lightning1]

I can't believe I'm siding with the "media", but what makes it stupid is that AJ played quite a bit last year as a true freshman. So its really stupid for fans to believe he's not going to get even more snaps this year. Why do people care whether he's listed as a starter or not? He's going to play...a lot.

Besides, the whole " upperclassmen play ahead of talent" is just not a thing. See Josey Jewell, Nathan Stanley, Desmond King, Marvin McNutt, DJK....and on and on and on....

Agreed. The DL is a position that needs a rotation, to some extent. If AJ is happy with his role, that's all that counts. This wouldn't be a real issue unless AJ transfers out. Then it would be fair game to question the starting role/playing time situation.
In fairness, opposing coaches could use it as a tool for negative recruiting. But they'll find something to use, regardless.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Agreed. The DL is a position that needs a rotation, to some extent. If AJ is happy with his role, that's all that counts. This wouldn't be a real issue unless AJ transfers out. Then it would be fair game to question the starting role/playing time situation.
In fairness, opposing coaches could use it as a tool for negative recruiting. But they'll find something to use, regardless.

Images of 2010 just came to mind. Like our DL with hands on hips sucking wind in the Northwestern, Wisconsin, and Ohio State games. Hell, Minnesota too, with that interim coach who probably already had his office cleaned out.

Those guys are going balls out every snap. They need to be rotated once in a while.

 

[Knight78]

Absolutely.

See my reply to @mopkins below

This one I don't agree with. At the D-1, Power Five level I don't care who works the hardest in practice as long as they play the best at that spot. If Akrum Wadley was a total dickhead to teammates, didn't speak to media, and was lazy at practice (none of which are remotely true), I'd still play him at RB over IKM. I know you said "showing the same results," but that premise doesn't exist. I played sports all the way from elementary school through high school, baseball in college, and coach travel baseball teams to this day, and I can 100% honestly say I've never had two teammates nor coached two players where I'd say they produced the same. It just doesn't happen. One player is always better or worse than another at a particular skill. When I'm coaching say 5th graders, behavior and work ethic definitely come into play. By the time you get to the B1G, give me the guy who's going to score the most points or make the most tackles.

The time for being a guidance counselor and a football coach at the same time is over once you get to this level. Or it should be at least, Kirk (if you're listening out there).

I agree that players have differing skill levels. But if one player is clearly dogging it in practice and another is working hard and the results of their practice efforts end up being the same, who do you play? I've coached kids from little league baseball to high school baseball, from 6th grade YMCA basketball to high school basketball, junior high and high school track. If all other skills are equal (I know, not exactly equal but in the end with all plusses and minuses taken into account) you play the kid that works hard. If that kid who doesn't work hard in practice for whatever reason is allowed to play, the coach is telling the rest of the kids on the team that it doesn't matter how hard you work in practice.... playing time is pre-determined.

How do you know who will score the most points or make the most tackles if they don't do it in practice? Go on high school film? Really? We've seen some pretty amazing high school film on kids that were pretty mediocre in the Big 10.

 

[AreWeThereYet]

Images of 2010 just came to mind. Like our DL with hands on hips sucking wind in the Northwestern, Wisconsin, and Ohio State games. Hell, Minnesota too, with that interim coach who probably already had his office cleaned out.

Those guys are going balls out every snap. They need to be rotated once in a while.

The defensive tackles are on the smallish side. I would think you would want to keep small guys fresh otherwise they are going to get pushed around.

Also, I am reluctant to use the 2010 line for comparison. That was Rick Kaczenski's defensive line. Kaczenski had issues as a position coach and Norm Parker's health issues had him away from the field much of the time. There were a lot of issues at the time beyond who was getting played.