Dont lay all this "hell" on the PG

L

longtimer

Well-Known Member
Sure we don't have a good athletic PG. Bohanon is a great shooter but not a point guard that can penetrate and make things happen. Clearly we have big deficiencies at all positions when it comes to athletic ability, but the biggest deficiency starts with the head coach.
For you younger posters out there I would like you to look up the tenure of Ralph Miller at Iowa. In the mid 60s he had a team of very limited talent and a 6'3" forward by the name of Sam Williams. The guy led the Big Ten in scoring and I think rebounding and we tied Ohio State for the championship scoring about 65 points a game! In 69-70 (my freshman year at Iowa for those of you wondering how old I am) we had a 6 man team with John Johnson Fred Brown Chad Calabria Glen Vidnovic and went 14-0 in the Big Ten averaging over 100 points per game! If Jacksonville wouldn't have tipped in a 60 foot shot at the buzzer we might have won it all

My point is Miller coached to the talent and makeup of his team. He won going slowdown and he won going fast (and that was before the 3 point shot!) McCaffrey I thought was a run and gun coach but he hasn't recruited to that style and hasn't shown the ability to adjust to what talent he has.
 
The PG/SG positions are clearly the biggest deficiencies of the team, but you're right to blame Fran for that considering he constructed an unbalanced roster.
The only way a team like this wins is by playing solid defense and slowing the ball down (neither of which Fran has shown he can do). Instead, Fran tries to push the ball and outscore opponents when we don't have the athletes to win that way.
 
Yep, ultimately, the product on the floor is Fran's responsibility. He's the HEAD coach. That's the bottom line.

Whether it's recruiting or lack thereof, unbalanced recruiting classes, poor roster construction, bad coaching, weak assistants, etc. etc. it all comes back to the guy running the show: Fran McCaffery. Whether it's one of these things or a combination of several, it's his job to put all the pieces together and WIN.

There will be the inevitable "It's not Fran who's out there throwing the ball away" excuses, which is true, but again, it's his job to recruit players who "can execute" and coach them so that they aren't making the same silly mistakes over and over again.
 
Every single defensive possession I see guys out of position. Way out, and usually several guys at once.

This team is not fundamentally sound. Or even close to it. The absurd amount of dumb TO's is a dead giveaway. It's painful to watch.
 
Fran says this year we're running a freewheeling "positionless offense". Eight years into the program and he says now is the time and he has the players to make this happen? I'm not sure what he has now other than confusion and growing frustration.
 
Motigerhawk said:
Guards win in college basketball. It is that simple. And Frans inability to get guards that can play a great level consistently is killing this team. And ultimately his career as a power 5 head coach.
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It's most certainly a guards game. They have their hands on the ball the most. We have two guards that are turning it over almost as often as they score. And they aren't defending. We can't defend without fouling or giving up an open look. I challenge someone to see a positive to what they've put out there so far. The freshmen I'm not going to bash cause well they are both big guys and rarely do freshman big guys dominate day 1. So they get a bit of a pass from me but Fran sure doesn't because he's the one throwing them in there and expecting what they can't deliver on yet.
 
ohhawk said:
Fran says this year we're running a freewheeling "positionless offense". Eight years into the program and he says now is the time and he has the players to make this happen? I'm not sure what he has now other than confusion and growing frustration.
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Wow, he really said this?

Translation: I suck at recruiting and coherent basketball.
 
Defense wins games especially when the offense isn't clicking. The team just doesn't seem to have a grasp of what guarding is about.
 
Fact - Ben Jacobsen would have this team in better position to win and design his offense and defense around the talent on the roster currently instead of continuing to try and do what won't work.
Heck, I'm not so sure Lick's style wouldn't work better with this team and he'd have them in better position to win.
I agree with PC, it sucks for us to watch but we have to slow it down and grind out some games. Run and gun is great, but when in the last 15 years has Iowa had the athletes to do this and can they ever get them? It is kind of like the WR spot in our football program.
 
longtimer said:
Sure we don't have a good athletic PG. Bohanon is a great shooter but not a point guard that can penetrate and make things happen. Clearly we have big deficiencies at all positions when it comes to athletic ability, but the biggest deficiency starts with the head coach.
For you younger posters out there I would like you to look up the tenure of Ralph Miller at Iowa. In the mid 60s he had a team of very limited talent and a 6'3" forward by the name of Sam Williams. The guy led the Big Ten in scoring and I think rebounding and we tied Ohio State for the championship scoring about 65 points a game! In 69-70 (my freshman year at Iowa for those of you wondering how old I am) we had a 6 man team with John Johnson Fred Brown Chad Calabria Glen Vidnovic and went 14-0 in the Big Ten averaging over 100 points per game! If Jacksonville wouldn't have tipped in a 60 foot shot at the buzzer we might have won it all

My point is Miller coached to the talent and makeup of his team. He won going slowdown and he won going fast (and that was before the 3 point shot!) McCaffrey I thought was a run and gun coach but he hasn't recruited to that style and hasn't shown the ability to adjust to what talent he has.
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You do realize there were 2 NBA stars on this team. Brown could easily play point guard this year and create shots.

First up he penetrates. Towards the end he shots over Kareem.

The point guard average 19.1 in the Big that year. He had a short career with the Suns.

There is maybe 1 possible NBA player of substance on this team and not likely a productive one. That team had 1 really good one. I'm not old enough to remember this, but it's not hard to look up.


 
longtimer said:
Sure we don't have a good athletic PG. Bohanon is a great shooter but not a point guard that can penetrate and make things happen. Clearly we have big deficiencies at all positions when it comes to athletic ability, but the biggest deficiency starts with the head coach.
For you younger posters out there I would like you to look up the tenure of Ralph Miller at Iowa. In the mid 60s he had a team of very limited talent and a 6'3" forward by the name of Sam Williams. The guy led the Big Ten in scoring and I think rebounding and we tied Ohio State for the championship scoring about 65 points a game! In 69-70 (my freshman year at Iowa for those of you wondering how old I am) we had a 6 man team with John Johnson Fred Brown Chad Calabria Glen Vidnovic and went 14-0 in the Big Ten averaging over 100 points per game! If Jacksonville wouldn't have tipped in a 60 foot shot at the buzzer we might have won it all

My point is Miller coached to the talent and makeup of his team. He won going slowdown and he won going fast (and that was before the 3 point shot!) McCaffrey I thought was a run and gun coach but he hasn't recruited to that style and hasn't shown the ability to adjust to what talent he has.
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It is simply jaw-dropping how few coaches are truly competent at adjusting their strategy to the talent they have in order to maximize strengths. They don't know the game, they know their systems and apply it to the game and let the chips fall.

Iowa (and most 3rd-tier programs like Iowa) have glaring examples in its football and basketball coaches. In the rare occasions they get lucky enough to have players with enough athleticism and skill to overcome the inherent obstacles their systems and strategies impose, they produce decent seasons. Mostly, the pendulum swings between below average to slightly above average - usually within each season and often within games - because of the unsustainable compatibility of their system to the players' abilities to execute it.

Football and basketball aren't rocket science. It's too bad that most coaches think it takes that level of genius to adapt to the game.
 
STILLBUSTER said:
It is simply jaw-dropping how few coaches are truly competent at adjusting their strategy to the talent they have in order to maximize strengths. They don't know the game, they know their systems and apply it to the game and let the chips fall.

Iowa (and most 3rd-tier programs like Iowa) have glaring examples in its football and basketball coaches. In the rare occasions they get lucky enough to have players with enough athleticism and skill to overcome the inherent obstacles their systems and strategies impose, they produce decent seasons. Mostly, the pendulum swings between below average to slightly above average - usually within each season and often within games - because of the unsustainable compatibility of their system to the players' abilities to execute it.

Football and basketball aren't rocket science. It's too bad that most coaches think it takes that level of genius to adapt to the game.
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Amen Amen Amen. One thing I noticed and the TV guys did too was there were stretches when Nunge had a 6'3 guy guarding him. Hmm 6'11 vs 6'3.... Iowa had a whole row of coaches sitting there and not one of them suggested clearing out the side to get him a touch in the post one on one against him? Why Nunge isn't being used at the high post or on the block seems to be wasting what his skills are. But that's just one thing about last night to harp on..
 
5 Nunge
4 Cook
3 Baer
2/1 Bohannon and Connor

That's our only hope to salvage the season right now.
 
The 5 should be Nunge, Garza, and Kriener. They shouldn't play a single minute at another position. Fran needs to tell them their minutes depend on how well they defend and rebound. 40 minutes to split between the 3. Now that Dailey is playing decent, Nunge doesn't need to play the 3.
 
PCHawk said:
5 Nunge
4 Cook
3 Baer
2/1 Bohannon and Connor

That's our only hope to salvage the season right now.
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I’m not ready to write Moss off... he’s averaging 12.4 PPG.

Baer obviously didn’t benefit from the games aagainst weaker competition and has had the injury but when I look at the scoring stats, 2 guys stood out.

Baer with 4 PPG
Wagner with 3.4
 
ibahawkeye said:
I’m not ready to write Moss off... he’s averaging 12.4 PPG.

Baer obviously didn’t benefit from the games aagainst weaker competition and has had the injury but when I look at the scoring stats, 2 guys stood out.

Baer with 4 PPG
Wagner with 3.4
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I've never thought he was going to be very good for some reason. Now that he is being forced to be "the man" it's ugly. Same with Bohannon.
 
longtimer said:
Sure we don't have a good athletic PG. Bohanon is a great shooter but not a point guard that can penetrate and make things happen. Clearly we have big deficiencies at all positions when it comes to athletic ability, but the biggest deficiency starts with the head coach.
For you younger posters out there I would like you to look up the tenure of Ralph Miller at Iowa. In the mid 60s he had a team of very limited talent and a 6'3" forward by the name of Sam Williams. The guy led the Big Ten in scoring and I think rebounding and we tied Ohio State for the championship scoring about 65 points a game! In 69-70 (my freshman year at Iowa for those of you wondering how old I am) we had a 6 man team with John Johnson Fred Brown Chad Calabria Glen Vidnovic and went 14-0 in the Big Ten averaging over 100 points per game! If Jacksonville wouldn't have tipped in a 60 foot shot at the buzzer we might have won it all

My point is Miller coached to the talent and makeup of his team. He won going slowdown and he won going fast (and that was before the 3 point shot!) McCaffrey I thought was a run and gun coach but he hasn't recruited to that style and hasn't shown the ability to adjust to what talent he has.
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you are completely wrong with Fran "hasn't recruited to that style." this is a talented team. it isn't playing well. we have a huge defect, right now, at pg as far as ball handling and getting into the offense. JBo is a pure and elite shooter. ANY time he has the ball in his hands and passes it is a wasted opportunity. this team is leaderless on the floor, right now. if you've played organized hoops (any team sport) that leader has to emerge on the floor; it can't be coached. having said that, Fran does need to figure some things out. I believe Daily and (eventually) Conner need to be the pg's and JBo/Moss/Ellingson need to be the SG's. I think Nunge needs to be a starter. My starting 5 would be: Cook/Nunge/Wagner/JBo/Daily-Conner. Bring Baer/Garza/Pemsyl/Kriener/Moss/etc off the bench. that's good energy and still good scoring.

Finally, Ralph Miller was a helluva coach, to be sure. But I think it is a mistake to compare era's. The reverse would be penalizing Miller for not having teams with a bunch of 6'10" guys that can hit 15ft + jump shots. Simply, the era's are just too far apart and too different from each other.
 
longtimer said:
Sure we don't have a good athletic PG. Bohanon is a great shooter but not a point guard that can penetrate and make things happen. Clearly we have big deficiencies at all positions when it comes to athletic ability, but the biggest deficiency starts with the head coach.
For you younger posters out there I would like you to look up the tenure of Ralph Miller at Iowa. In the mid 60s he had a team of very limited talent and a 6'3" forward by the name of Sam Williams. The guy led the Big Ten in scoring and I think rebounding and we tied Ohio State for the championship scoring about 65 points a game! In 69-70 (my freshman year at Iowa for those of you wondering how old I am) we had a 6 man team with John Johnson Fred Brown Chad Calabria Glen Vidnovic and went 14-0 in the Big Ten averaging over 100 points per game! If Jacksonville wouldn't have tipped in a 60 foot shot at the buzzer we might have won it all

My point is Miller coached to the talent and makeup of his team. He won going slowdown and he won going fast (and that was before the 3 point shot!) McCaffrey I thought was a run and gun coach but he hasn't recruited to that style and hasn't shown the ability to adjust to what talent he has.
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I would agree with you. I always thought Tom Davis was great at adapting to the talent he had to work with.
 
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