Does the NIL doom Iowa to mediocrity

L

longtimer

Well-Known Member
Fran was never a great recruiter before the NIL although he managed to get some good legacy recruits and his age and record are going to make it difficult but the NIL throws a huge barrier for Fran or anyone who comes in after him. I read where Storr from Wisconsin was asking for a million dollars and Calipari had 5 million available in his new job at Arkansas. Just a couple of examples. I just don't see Iowa joining the elite programs to pay huge sums of money for players. As a result we will have to recruit sleepers and will end up losing those who prove to be good to the portal.
I know that the NIL is here to stay and frankly I don't have a problem with players doing commercials (although I'm getting a bit tired of Clark and State Farm) but I never envisioned paying players huge sums of money (legally)

I have been a fan for like 60 years and I will miss the anticipation of possibly competing for championships in both basketball and football and if the NIL and portal remains unchanged I am afraid it's gone for the Iowas of the world
 
First, I disagree that Fran is not a good recruiter. Wow. I don 't know if you have heard of a guy named Luka Garza, who was a middle level recruit with zero ties to Iowa that Fran landed, and who developed into one of the greatest college centers of the modern era. The Murray brothers were obviously legacies. But, they were a package deal and no one else offered them out of high school or prep school. Fran did not make the offer out of charity, and he saw something in them that no one else did despite all the tape in the world in high school and prep. Both were first round picks. Freeman was a hell of a get. I could go on, but its not fair to call Fran a bad recruiter.

Oh, and by the way, he did all this with no bag man and with a program that is not particularly well supported these days from the fans and administration.
 
Second, I share the concern with NIL and the Haves and Have Nots. Iowa is holding its own NIL wise in football, but there is only so much to go around. MBB seemingly does not have donor support for NIL. I find it inconceivable that the athletic department, being flush with TV cash, cannot find a way to funnel money to NIL through donors. Its not hard to move money around. Ask the mob!

I have posted many times that the future of NIL is contracts and lawyers. At some point, these rich donors are not going to be happy with forking out millions of dollars just to have a kid stay for a year and bolt for greener pastures. Either the NILs and their donors will get wise and require term of service contracts with penalty clauses when violated; or eventually, the schools will be paying the kids directly and there will be contracts, perhaps unionization, and order to the current chaos. This may take a few years to achieve, but the current system is not sustainable IMHO.
 
NorthKCHawk said:
Second, I share the concern with NIL and the Haves and Have Nots. Iowa is holding its own NIL wise in football, but there is only so much to go around. MBB seemingly does not have donor support for NIL. I find it inconceivable that the athletic department, being flush with TV cash, cannot find a way to funnel money to NIL through donors. Its not hard to move money around. Ask the mob!

I have posted many times that the future of NIL is contracts and lawyers. At some point, these rich donors are not going to be happy with forking out millions of dollars just to have a kid stay for a year and bolt for greener pastures. Either the NILs and their donors will get wise and require term of service contracts with penalty clauses when violated; or eventually, the schools will be paying the kids directly and there will be contracts, perhaps unionization, and order to the current chaos. This may take a few years to achieve, but the current system is not sustainable IMHO.
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I've been saying that as well. the ROI isn't there. They are already hitting the fans for tickets, to buy Iowa gear, to pay for trips to watch the team, to buy TV packages, tickets, to donate for fundraising for facilities, to donate for NIL - all while the school has absolutely no skin in the game and keeps all the revenue from sales of merch, tickets, concessions, tv revenue.... in what world is that a sustainable business practice? It will change out of necessity eventually. I am hoping Iowa can just stay relevant enough and not bury themselves in our current climate
 
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NorthKCHawk said:
First, I disagree that Fran is not a good recruiter. Wow. I don 't know if you have heard of a guy named Luka Garza, who was a middle level recruit with zero ties to Iowa that Fran landed, and who developed into one of the greatest college centers of the modern era. The Murray brothers were obviously legacies. But, they were a package deal and no one else offered them out of high school or prep school. Fran did not make the offer out of charity, and he saw something in them that no one else did despite all the tape in the world in high school and prep. Both were first round picks. Freeman was a hell of a get. I could go on, but its not fair to call Fran a bad recruiter.

Oh, and by the way, he did all this with no bag man and with a program that is not particularly well supported these days from the fans and administration.
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Fran has been a B+ to A recruiter if we're being honest here and anyone who says he hasn't been just isn't being honest

Marble
White
Jok
Uthoff
Tyler Cook
Isiah Moss
Jack Nunge
Luka Garza
Joe Wieskamp
Keegan Murray
Kris Murray
Owen Freeman

Now, none of those guys were that highly recruited kids, but recruiting at a school like Iowa is definitely more then just getting star studded heralded recruits. You're not going to get those at Iowa and it likely doesn't matter who coaches here. They have to be much more resourceful. They have to recruit harder and better than schools with more focus and resources and, frankly, success. Do they fit the system? can the be developed? will they come to Iowa City and stay? are they good kids? If people want to say Fran isn't a good recruiter compared to like Jon Calipari or coach K or something... ok, but consider where they coach and the resources available to them right? Considering the circumstances at Iowa, especially when Fran started, he has been a B+ to A recruiter, who on top of that, also knows how to develop.

Iowa has a great basketball coach, the basketball coach isn't their problem.
 
InGoodCo said:
Fran has been a B+ to A recruiter if we're being honest here and anyone who says he hasn't been just isn't being honest

Marble
White
Jok
Uthoff
Tyler Cook
Isiah Moss
Jack Nunge
Luka Garza
Joe Wieskamp
Keegan Murray
Kris Murray
Owen Freeman

Now, none of those guys were that highly recruited kids, but recruiting at a school like Iowa is definitely more then just getting star studded heralded recruits. You're not going to get those at Iowa and it likely doesn't matter who coaches here. They have to be much more resourceful. They have to recruit harder and better than schools with more focus and resources and, frankly, success. Do they fit the system? can the be developed? will they come to Iowa City and stay? are they good kids? If people want to say Fran isn't a good recruiter compared to like Jon Calipari or coach K or something... ok, but consider where they coach and the resources available to them right? Considering the circumstances at Iowa, especially when Fran started, he has been a B+ to A recruiter, who on top of that, also knows how to develop.

Iowa has a great basketball coach, the basketball coach isn't their problem.
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Everyone entitled to opinion.. Certainly some good players in Fran era Cook probably the highest rated player out of high school turned out to be decent player Some really good Legacy recruits and of course Garza who wasn't highly recruited turned out to be great college player

the question is if Fran was such a great recruiter and great coach how is it he never won a Regular season championship and even bigger never got to the second round in 14 years?
 
longtimer said:
Everyone entitled to opinion.. Certainly some good players in Fran era Cook probably the highest rated player out of high school turned out to be decent player Some really good Legacy recruits and of course Garza who wasn't highly recruited turned out to be great college player

the question is if Fran was such a great recruiter and great coach how is it he never won a Regular season championship and even bigger never got to the second round in 14 years?
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours is just very narrow sighted with very little consideration of the landscape of the sport in general. Iowa hasn't won a conference title since 1979 homey - they haven't been to the to the 3rd round since 1999, ever think it might not be the coach? Stop saying he got some "really good legacy recruits" lol - Iowa was the first major offer for both of the Murray's. They weren't considered good enough to even play in the B1G when Fran offered and he was DESTROYED by the fan base because we got these fall back recruits no one wanted while instate mega talents like DJ Carton and Xavier Foster went elsewhere. You know what makes him a good recruiter? He was still successful despite losing those guys. He was still successful because he saw the Murray's talent when no one else did. He should get credit for that, not made out to be a guy who just tripped over himself and got some legacy recruits that were coming to Iowa regardless. They weren’t consider good enough to play at Iowa!

When he came to Iowa, a huge part of things turning around was landing Woodbury and Gessell, both highly recruited kids that, without Fran, were never coming to Iowa after what Alford and Lick did to tank our program.

Fran is a great coach because he has finished in the top half of the conference in 11 of the last 12 seasons. That's way more difficult then making a sweet 16, specifically at a school like Iowa. He's a good coach because he produces All Conference and All American players who weren't really highly recruited routinely. And I mean routinely. Like, he does it all the time and he does it over and over and over. That's not luck. That’s what great coaches do. That's not landing a few legacy recruits. He takes guys like Jordan Bohannon and turns them into college hoops household names and the schools all time greats. He's a great coach because he's like the 10th or 11th highest paid coach in the league and routinely places higher than that EVERY single season.

The sweet 16 really doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. Iowa beats sweet 16 caliber teams every season. They sometimes beat them on their home courts.

Fran is a great coach, Iowa does not deserve a coach as good as him as things stand and I feel confident we'll learn that here sooner than later.
 
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InGoodCo said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Yours is just very narrow sighted with very little consideration of the landscape of the sport in general. Iowa hasn't won a conference title since 1979 homey - they haven't been to the to the 3rd round since 1999, ever think it might not be the coach? Stop saying he got some "really good legacy recruits" lol - Iowa was the first major offer for both of the Murray's. They weren't considered good enough to even play in the B1G when Fran offered and he was DESTROYED by the fan base because we got these fall back recruits no one wanted while instate mega talents like DJ Carton and Xavier Foster went elsewhere. You know what makes him a good recruiter? He was still successful despite losing those guys. He was still successful because he saw the Murray's talent when no one else did. He should get credit for that, not made out to be a guy who just tripped over himself and got some legacy recruits that were coming to Iowa regardless. They weren’t consider good enough to play at Iowa!

When he came to Iowa, a huge part of things turning around was landing Woodbury and Gessell, both highly recruited kids that, without Fran, were never coming to Iowa after what Alford and Lick did to tank our program.

Fran is a great coach because he has finished in the top half of the conference in 11 of the last 12 seasons. That's way more difficult then making a sweet 16, specifically at a school like Iowa. He's a good coach because he produces All Conference and All American players who weren't really highly recruited routinely. And I mean routinely. Like, he does it all the time and he does it over and over and over. That's not luck. That’s what great coaches do. That's not landing a few legacy recruits. He takes guys like Jordan Bohannon and turns them into college hoops household names and the schools all time greats. He's a great coach because he's like the 10th or 11th highest paid coach in the league and routinely places higher than that EVERY single season.

The sweet 16 really doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. Iowa beats sweet 16 caliber teams every season. They sometimes beat them on their home courts.

Fran is a great coach, Iowa does not deserve a coach as good as him as things stand and I feel confident we'll learn that here sooner than later.
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The way some people talk you would think they think Iowa is the only program in the country who benefits from in state and legacy recruits.
 
PCHawk said:
This pretty much sums up my thoughts.
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Lol, pretty deep analysis there PC. I agree also unless the NCAA comes back with at least some basic ground rules.

I ran into an Ohio State fan at the gym I work out at. We talked about the general college football situation and how it’s now a semi pro league. He agrees with me and a lot of other people on this forum that the NCAA is going to have lay down some basic rules. My friend also thinks contracts are an option as both Fryowa and I have suggested in other threads.

Maybe the major conferences can step forward and have agreement within the major conferences and make their own rules. SCREW the NCAA.
 
InGoodCo said:
Fran has been a B+ to A recruiter if we're being honest here and anyone who says he hasn't been just isn't being honest

Marble
White
Jok
Uthoff
Tyler Cook
Isiah Moss
Jack Nunge
Luka Garza
Joe Wieskamp
Keegan Murray
Kris Murray
Owen Freeman

Now, none of those guys were that highly recruited kids, but recruiting at a school like Iowa is definitely more then just getting star studded heralded recruits. You're not going to get those at Iowa and it likely doesn't matter who coaches here. They have to be much more resourceful. They have to recruit harder and better than schools with more focus and resources and, frankly, success. Do they fit the system? can the be developed? will they come to Iowa City and stay? are they good kids? If people want to say Fran isn't a good recruiter compared to like Jon Calipari or coach K or something... ok, but consider where they coach and the resources available to them right? Considering the circumstances at Iowa, especially when Fran started, he has been a B+ to A recruiter, who on top of that, also knows how to develop.

Iowa has a great basketball coach, the basketball coach isn't their problem.
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I will mildly agree on being a good coach, but not put him into the great category until he shows more success in the big dance.
 
Does Iowa have a men's basketball problem with NIL? Yes. Buttttt, so does all of men's college basketball. One only needs to look at TV viewership. The quality of the product is down. The best players leave early, they don't stay put, or they skip college period. Then you add in the pay for play element to further alienate fans that appreciate commitment to a team.

Where things are headed is yet to be determined. The obvious solution is making players employees under contract. Once in place you are able to negotiate terms and conditions. Eliminating the NCAA would facilitate reaching a solution.
 
I was of the opinion that Iowa would become a feeder system, much like the MAC is a feeder system to Iowa. Iowa's just a fish swimming with smaller and bigger fish the tank. The college Men's game is over and it's their own fault. This will eventually settle into the NBA ranks as well. Players don't play long enough to develop the fan base in college and bring that audience to the next level. It's no coincidence to me that the women's game is becoming more popular. Players stay longer and fans get a chance to know them and get invested. It's great to get awesome players but it's even more fun to watch them develop. Get used to disappointment Iowa men's basketball fans.
 
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