MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Tom Crean coach from the sidelines!! Wow! That man seriously needs some Ritalin. That man is wired for sure. I'm like, Tom dude, your team is down by 20 with 3 minutes left, relax already!
Does anybody else get exhausted watching .....
- Thread starter MelroseHawkins
- Start date
FreddyBrown
Moderator
That energy is why IU will be back in the upper division in the not too distant future.
HawkeyeBBall
Well-Known Member
Really, the guy will have more turnover than we have had in the past. I think any kid that plays HS basketball in Indiana the past two years has been offered. I couldn't take watching him for more than the 2 games a year we play them.
tm3308
Well-Known Member
You know, I was saying the same thing a few years ago about Brewster and Minny football (not back to the upper division, but out of the bottom anyway). Hasn't really panned out. Of course Paul Rhoads at ISU is at the other end of the spectrum. He actually does have that program on the upswing.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
I don't really get into the whole "energetic coach" thing all that much. Dean Smith was about as laid back of a coach as you can get, but you wouldn't know it by watching his UNC teams. Not that I'm saying having some energy is a bad thing, but as long as you can get your team to respond to you, regardless of your personality type, that's what counts.
I was right behind the bench yesterday. Crean is very positive and energetic. With 3 minutes left he kept telling his players to fight to the end, we don't quit, that sorta thing. I would trade him for our coach in a heartbeat. At one point we were giving him crap about one of his guys traveling. He turned around and said "you think i teach that?" Pretty funny. He was always upbeat.
busabus114
Well-Known Member
Crean and Lick are polar opposites on the bench
FreddyBrown
Moderator
The difference is that Crean has already proved that he can recruit and coach. I would dearly love to be able to take wagers with you guys giving me odds that IU won't be back in the upper division under Crean.
I would swap Crean for Licklliter and throw in draft picks and cash to boot.
HawkeyeBBall
Well-Known Member
Getting lucky on having DWade doesn't mean he can coach/recruit. Check out a W-L without DWade. Completely average.
Kindabigdeal
Well-Known Member
I agree, his energy is infectious.
I sat behind him at a IU football game and there was steady stream of people coming up to him to shake his hand, get his autograph, picture, and talk with him. He was gracious and accomodating to everyone for over 2 hours.
Do you think there would be that same enthusiasm for Coach Lick?
That energy might also be the reason his team threw the ball away 20 times, and fouled us on every other trip down.
ChosenChildren
Well-Known Member
Can he recruit Big-Ten caliber players to compete with MSU, Purdue, Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota? That will tell the tale.
Can Lickliter do the same? Not sure yet.
Can Lickliter do the same? Not sure yet.
FreddyBrown
Moderator
Crean is a "completely average" coach?! LOL!
Wow! I don't know where to begin.
1. Does Crean get no credit for finding and developing Wade? According to Wiki, Wade was recruited by only three D-I schools: Marquette, Illinois State and Depaul. The author of the Wiki piece on Wade's recruitment attributes that to academic issues, but those were the days of Prop 48 when a school could take a non-qualifier and have him sit out a year. Many schools did just that with highly regarded prospects, so the fact that Wade only had three offers suggests that Crean and his staff deserve great credit for finding and offering him despite the academic issues.
2. Wade only played two years at Marquette after sitting out his freshman season as a Prop 48. In those two years, Marquette was 26-7 and 27-6, winning the CUSA title and advancing to the Final Four in the second year.
3. Crean's record at Marquette without Wade was as follows:
1999-2000 15-14 NIT
2000-2001 15-14
***
***
2003-2004 19-12 NIT
2004-2005 19-12 NIT
2005-2006 20-11 NCAA
2006-2007 24-10 NCAA
2007-2008 25-10 NCAA
4. Bear in mind that for the last three years of his time at Marquette, Crean was coaching in a new league for Marquette (the Big East) that was as tough or tougher than any in the nation.
5. Crean also left behind an excellent nucleus of players he recruited, including Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews and Lazar Hayward--and they made it to the NCAA tournament for the fourth consecutive year in the season after Crean left for IU.
6. No one can reasonably dispute that Crean walked into a complete mess at IU. While some of the IU fans, who are as spoiled and demanding a bunch as there is in all of college basketball, are down on him for not being in the NCAA tournament "yet," his rebuilding plan is right on track. He has a very nice freshman class, missing the best recruit of the bunch due to injury, and another very good class on the way.
I'm not saying Crean is the best coach in NCAA basketball, obviously the record doesn't remotely support that, but for you to arbitrarily toss out two great seasons led by a player most schools overlooked coming out of high school, to support the argument that Crean's record is otherwise "completely average," is ludicrous. That's like saying Lute Olson was an average coach coming out of Iowa if you discounted Ronnie Lester. It's meaningless, because finding and developing Ronnie was one of Lute's great accomplishments.
Moreover, even after he lost Wade, Crean went out and built another outstanding team that was still intact when he left.
In short, the statement that Crean is an average coach has to be one of the dumbest things I've read here in recent memory, and that covers a whole lotta territory.
When Iowa was in the market for a coach, had Crean been available he would've been my first choice after Pearl, and frankly based on actual accomplishment Crean was the better choice. I'd also be thrilled to swap coaches with IU even-up today, and once again the record would support Crean as the more accomplished coach and recruiter in the deal, by far.
Wow! I don't know where to begin.
1. Does Crean get no credit for finding and developing Wade? According to Wiki, Wade was recruited by only three D-I schools: Marquette, Illinois State and Depaul. The author of the Wiki piece on Wade's recruitment attributes that to academic issues, but those were the days of Prop 48 when a school could take a non-qualifier and have him sit out a year. Many schools did just that with highly regarded prospects, so the fact that Wade only had three offers suggests that Crean and his staff deserve great credit for finding and offering him despite the academic issues.
2. Wade only played two years at Marquette after sitting out his freshman season as a Prop 48. In those two years, Marquette was 26-7 and 27-6, winning the CUSA title and advancing to the Final Four in the second year.
3. Crean's record at Marquette without Wade was as follows:
1999-2000 15-14 NIT
2000-2001 15-14
***
***
2003-2004 19-12 NIT
2004-2005 19-12 NIT
2005-2006 20-11 NCAA
2006-2007 24-10 NCAA
2007-2008 25-10 NCAA
4. Bear in mind that for the last three years of his time at Marquette, Crean was coaching in a new league for Marquette (the Big East) that was as tough or tougher than any in the nation.
5. Crean also left behind an excellent nucleus of players he recruited, including Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews and Lazar Hayward--and they made it to the NCAA tournament for the fourth consecutive year in the season after Crean left for IU.
6. No one can reasonably dispute that Crean walked into a complete mess at IU. While some of the IU fans, who are as spoiled and demanding a bunch as there is in all of college basketball, are down on him for not being in the NCAA tournament "yet," his rebuilding plan is right on track. He has a very nice freshman class, missing the best recruit of the bunch due to injury, and another very good class on the way.
I'm not saying Crean is the best coach in NCAA basketball, obviously the record doesn't remotely support that, but for you to arbitrarily toss out two great seasons led by a player most schools overlooked coming out of high school, to support the argument that Crean's record is otherwise "completely average," is ludicrous. That's like saying Lute Olson was an average coach coming out of Iowa if you discounted Ronnie Lester. It's meaningless, because finding and developing Ronnie was one of Lute's great accomplishments.
Moreover, even after he lost Wade, Crean went out and built another outstanding team that was still intact when he left.
In short, the statement that Crean is an average coach has to be one of the dumbest things I've read here in recent memory, and that covers a whole lotta territory.
When Iowa was in the market for a coach, had Crean been available he would've been my first choice after Pearl, and frankly based on actual accomplishment Crean was the better choice. I'd also be thrilled to swap coaches with IU even-up today, and once again the record would support Crean as the more accomplished coach and recruiter in the deal, by far.
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MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
There is some truth to what you are saying. For instance, say you have a dog that cannot control themselves, the one in control wouldn't want to create more excitement. I.E If the dog has a tendancy to jump on people at the door you wouldn't want to create a frenzy when someone arrives. Or, if the dog has a tendancy to chase cats, you wouldn't want to point the cat out to the dog.
MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
Re: Crean is a "completely average" coach?! LOL!
HomerHawkeye, is that you?
Wow! I don't know where to begin.
1. Does Crean get no credit for finding and developing Wade? According to Wiki, Wade was recruited by only three D-I schools: Marquette, Illinois State and Depaul. The author of the Wiki piece on Wade's recruitment attributes that to academic issues, but those were the days of Prop 48 when a school could take a non-qualifier and have him sit out a year. Many schools did just that with highly regarded prospects, so the fact that Wade only had three offers suggests that Crean and his staff deserve great credit for finding and offering him despite the academic issues.
2. Wade only played two years at Marquette after sitting out his freshman season as a Prop 48. In those two years, Marquette was 26-7 and 27-6, winning the CUSA title and advancing to the Final Four in the second year.
3. Crean's record at Marquette without Wade was as follows:
1999-2000 15-14 NIT
2000-2001 15-14
***
***
2003-2004 19-12 NIT
2004-2005 19-12 NIT
2005-2006 20-11 NCAA
2006-2007 24-10 NCAA
2007-2008 25-10 NCAA
4. Bear in mind that for the last three years of his time at Marquette, Crean was coaching in a new league for Marquette (the Big East) that was as tough or tougher than any in the nation.
5. Crean also left behind an excellent nucleus of players he recruited, including Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews and Lazar Hayward--and they made it to the NCAA tournament for the fourth consecutive year in the season after Crean left for IU.
6. No one can reasonably dispute that Crean walked into a complete mess at IU. While some of the IU fans, who are as spoiled and demanding a bunch as there is in all of college basketball, are down on him for not being in the NCAA tournament "yet," his rebuilding plan is right on track. He has a very nice freshman class, missing the best recruit of the bunch due to injury, and another very good class on the way.
I'm not saying Crean is the best coach in NCAA basketball, obviously the record doesn't remotely support that, but for you to arbitrarily toss out two great seasons led by a player most schools overlooked coming out of high school, to support the argument that Crean's record is otherwise "completely average," is ludicrous. That's like saying Lute Olson was an average coach coming out of Iowa if you discounted Ronnie Lester. It's meaningless, because finding and developing Ronnie was one of Lute's great accomplishments.
Moreover, even after he lost Wade, Crean went out and built another outstanding team that was still intact when he left.
In short, the statement that Crean is an average coach has to be one of the dumbest things I've read here in recent memory, and that covers a whole lotta territory.
HomerHawkeye, is that you?
sergeanthulka
Well-Known Member
I don't see how one could have watched two Iowa-Indiana games this year & not think the Coach Lickliter is coaching circles around Tom Crean. TC's ability to recruit may narrow that margin, but I know a poorly coached team when I see one & that IU bball team is completely unschooled & undisciplined, imo.
I think you are nuts.
FreddyBrown
Moderator
Two separate issues. I could easily be nuts, and still be right. Wait, and watch--on both counts.
