DOA Extra: The Running Back Quandry

JonDMiller

JonDMiller

Publisher/Founder
I am not going to write an item on this, because it's waaaaaay too subjective right now when there are acres of facts out there that will do.....but I will post some thoughts on the running back position at Iowa that have been running around my head.

Mark Weisman has 592 carries because Iowa has had a massive recruiting and/or development failure at the position...and/or trust issues with young players at most of the positions.

But I think one of Kirk's biggest blind spots, his Achilles Heel...is blind loyalty to those who are blindly loyal to him. From a human perspective, I get it...and can relate to it. Still, as a CEO or a head football coach at the college level, you have to get past that.

I will offer this example: Lester Erb.

Lester Erb was an assistant coach at Iowa for 13 years. From 2000 to 2007, he was Iowa's wide receivers coach along with Special Teams.

During that time, Iowa was signing/bringing in/developing some pretty good RUNNING BACKS (some offers listed in parenthesis):

Fred Russell
Jermelle Lewis
Albert Young (verbal to Wisconsin)
Justice Hairston (Penn State)
Shonn Greene (Clemson, Wisconsin)
Damian Sims (KSU, Pitt, Va Tech)
Kalvin Bailey (FSU, USC, GA, Miami, Neb)
Corey Robertson (Arizona, Texas A&M, TCU)
Anthony Bowman (Ohio State)
Jevon Pugh (Kansas State)
Jeff Brinson (MSU, OK St)
Adam Robinson (Gray shirt)

On February 11th, 2008, the man who was Iowa's running backs coach during the entire Ferentz era to that point, Carl Jackson, retires. Kirk Ferentz chooses to slide Lester Erb into the role of Running backs coach. Since then, here are the RUNNING BACKS Iowa has signed:

Brandon Wegher: A good pick up, talented player, in state
Marcus Coker: 4 star player, 'OK' offers; KSU, Minnesota, Wake Forest, Maryland)
De'Andre Johnson: at best Mid Major offers
Damon Bullock: Iowa was his lone high major offer, and he started as a WR
Jordan Canzeri: Not a lot of offers, smallish player
Mika'il McCall: (Illinois, Minnesota, Syracuse, nothing major)
Greg Garmon: A who's who of offers list
Barkley Hill: Iowa and Iowa State
Leshun Daniels: Akron, Boston College, Bowling Green
Jonathon Parker: Mid Majors
Akrum Wadley: Iowa and Temple

(No, I didn't include Rodney Coe. I never thought he'd play one down of running back at Iowa. Turns out he never played at Iowa at all)

Did Iowa have some misses during the Carl Jackson era as RB's coach? Yes. But they recruited a better quality of running back during his run than they did in the six or seven years following his retirement...markedly better under Carl Davis than Lester Erb.

Erb is not wholly responsible for the running backs that are brought in, but he was certainly played a pivotal role in development...and there hasn't been much development at Iowa at running back since Carl Davis retired. Have there been injuries? Yes. Have their been 'not in good standing' decisions away from the field? Yes.

But these things happen at other places, too...and Iowa has pretty much lacked quality and quality depth at this position for much of the last decade...and there remains a reticence to play young players unless their hand is forced. This is how you wind up with a walk on fullback who will go down in the Iowa record books with the 4th most carries in school history and what has allowed teams to exert their will on Iowa's running game for the better part of the last three seasons.

Ferentz hasn't really 'fired' anyone while at Iowa...Pat Flaherty was encouraged to look around early on...Darrell Wilson was passed over for the DC job and moved on. Eric Johnson was basically left to spin his wheels, moved into a position he probably didn't want and he chose to leave to join the fast food industry.

He allowed Rick Kaczenski to spew his brand of verbal 'tough love' for a number of years, as the defensive line was losing players at an alarming rate and something that Iowa is just now digging out of...and he encouraged him to look elsewhere.

Erb's contract was not renewed..that and Kaz are as close as Ferentz has gotten to getting his hands dirty on that front. When you are the CEO of an organization for 16 years, it's VERY, VERY unusual for this to be the case.

I think it stems from Kirk coming up through the assistant coaching ranks and knowing how hard of a road that is...Kirk was a mudder...he had to grind...he worked for Ken O'Keefe early on in his career, was a GA at Pitt, fibbed a bit when he interviewed with Hayden Fry, went out to the hinterlands in Maine, that didn't work and he clocked his time in the NFL...building a solid reputation along the way as a great teacher, and then was the fourth or so choice for the Iowa job. It worked out.

I think he's reticent to damage anyone's career with a black mark like a firing. Again, I get that human side of it. I've had to fire people before and it flat out sucks. Many of you have had to do that, too...and I am sure you didn't enjoy it. But there are times when that is the best thing for the company, or the organization.

You let a guy's contract expire who had been there for 13 years, and a guy you had leading your recruiting efforts in historically the 2nd most important state to your football program (Illinois) as well as developing a key position like running back? 13 years...and you just don't renew his contract. I'd suggest the evidence was there well before year 13 that it wasn't the best fit...well, I guess we've laid out some of that evidence above.

For a large portion of the Ferentz era, about 13 years, the coaching staff was pretty much unchanged. For so long, that continuity was viewed as a strength for Iowa and in many ways, it probably was. However when you have an organization with that little change, you get little change...probably not a lot of people shaking the tree in the meeting rooms, I would guess. You also had a world class college defensive coordinator and defense for much of the Ferentz era, until Norm Parker's health issues got the better of him and he had to step away. The defense was the ultimate backboard for Kirk Ferentz, the offense a necessary evil...and for a good chunk of the time, Iowa got away with it.

But inaction on Kaz and perhaps even Erb (hello special teams, and punter??), along with Norm Parker before forced to step away...then Ken O'Keefe choosing to leave the program...things have been shaky since then...and specifically at running back, things haven't been the same since Carl Jackson retired...it's just been a very slow bleed out to where we are now.

Anyway, this is just tea leaves stuff, and it's really hard to pin it down enough to where I'd put it in an article ...but I think there is something to it on many fronts.

Feel free to shoot holes in this, as I appreciate opposing ideas.
 
Too many fall back recruits over the last 8 years. Canzeri, Bullock, De'Andre Johnson, Hill, Parker, and Wadley. That is over 1/2 of your RB not getting offers from other major schools, and being offered cause you missed on all the guys you really wanted. The first 12 players listed there was 1 guy who didn't have major offers.

Thanks for posting this JD, as it is exactly what I was saying in another thread. The running game is what it is because we haven't recruited over a FB playing RB for 3 years. There is attrition in every class, and that is why you need to bring in 3-4 RB every 2 years that all have other high major offers. We really need Daniels to step up next year, or Higdon or Smith to be the real deal. Parker and Wadley are perfect backs to get 10-15 carries a game, but we need a guy who can tote the ball 15-20 times a game as well.
 
I was listening to Dan Patrick yesterday and they were talking about how the NFL teams can just find all these running backs to plug in and get great results, Forsett at the Ravens and a bunch of others this year. There seem to be plenty of backs for the NFL to find.

KF has the blue print for what he needs and that is a Russell/Greene/Young type runner who can plant their foot and make cuts with some speed.
 
Well I think some of it goes back to playing the best players. McCall was supposed to be the a beast in spring practice and even Kirk was raving about him yet I want to say through 3 games he had 3 carries and this I think was the proliferation of Wiesman. Then McCall broke his ankle and poof just like so many of our skilled guys they vanish. Rodney Coe, Coker, Wegher, Garmon, Brinson, Bailey, Willies, etc. I mean all these guys we somehow run off. I think something has to be said about retention of the recruits we do get at these positions. My honest opinion is these skilled players are usually the most flamboyant and rambunctious faction of a football team and therefor rubs kirk the wrong way. Why else do you play Weisman that hits the line of scrimmage twice as slow as say Wadley? Those holes are open for small fractions of seconds and sending a much slower guy horizontally allows any and all defenses time to catch up and close said holes. I may be reading too much into it but to me the retention of these skilled players does need addressed.
 
hawkphan00 said:
Well I think some of it goes back to playing the best players. McCall was supposed to be the a beast in spring practice and even Kirk was raving about him yet I want to say through 3 games he had 3 carries and this I think was the proliferation of Wiesman. Then McCall broke his ankle and poof just like so many of our skilled guys they vanish. Rodney Coe, Coker, Wegher, Garmon, Brinson, Bailey, Willies, etc. I mean all these guys we somehow run off. I think something has to be said about retention of the recruits we do get at these positions. My honest opinion is these skilled players are usually the most flamboyant and rambunctious faction of a football team and therefor rubs kirk the wrong way. Why else do you play Weisman that hits the line of scrimmage twice as slow as say Wadley? Those holes are open for small fractions of seconds and sending a much slower guy horizontally allows any and all defenses time to catch up and close said holes. I may be reading too much into it but to me the retention of these skilled players does need addressed.
Click to expand...

I think you are really stretching on this. McCall had 9 first quarter carries in the first game of the year, and broke his ankle on that 9th carry. Keep in mind this is with Cocker returning and having that outstanding performance in the bowl game where everyone thought he was the second coming. McCall was going to be used A TON if he didn't get hurt.
 
so many of those guys never saw the field. DOA. We can only speculate on how good they would have been.
 
hawkphan00 said:
Well I think some of it goes back to playing the best players. McCall was supposed to be the a beast in spring practice and even Kirk was raving about him yet I want to say through 3 games he had 3 carries and this I think was the proliferation of Wiesman. Then McCall broke his ankle and poof just like so many of our skilled guys they vanish. Rodney Coe, Coker, Wegher, Garmon, Brinson, Bailey, Willies, etc. I mean all these guys we somehow run off. I think something has to be said about retention of the recruits we do get at these positions. My honest opinion is these skilled players are usually the most flamboyant and rambunctious faction of a football team and therefor rubs kirk the wrong way. Why else do you play Weisman that hits the line of scrimmage twice as slow as say Wadley? Those holes are open for small fractions of seconds and sending a much slower guy horizontally allows any and all defenses time to catch up and close said holes. I may be reading too much into it but to me the retention of these skilled players does need addressed.
Click to expand...

McCall is actually an example of Kirk wanting to play a freshman. I also believe they were going to give Canzeri every chance to get a lot of carries this year and use he and Weisman as a tandem...but he got hurt...I don't think they WANTED to have Weisman have this many carries...still, when one back gets hurt, it can't derail your whole system...and that speaks to lack of depth and recruiting challenges.
 
deanvogs said:
I think you are really stretching on this. McCall had 9 first quarter carries in the first game of the year, and broke his ankle on that 9th carry. Keep in mind this is with Cocker returning and having that outstanding performance in the bowl game where everyone thought he was the second coming. McCall was going to be used A TON if he didn't get hurt.
Click to expand...

McCall didn't get into the game until Coker had already fumbled twice. Who knows when he woild have gotten in if that didn't happen. The place where Kirk really screwed up is after McCall came back from injury. 2 or 3 full games went by before he got another carry. All the while running Coker into the ground.Coker was quicker than Weisman but he wasn't a guy you wanted taking every carry.

Kirk kept saying after games that they want to get McCall in but couldn't find the right time. How can't you find the right time to get a runningback into a game? Turns out that time was after a blocked punt and we get 1st and goal. A coach with common sense would pound Coker into the endzone, extend the lead, then get McCall some experience. Not Kirk. He puts in a true freshman who was chomping at the bit for 3 weeks to get into a game. With that much anticipation build up coupled with staring at the goalline, how can you think that's a good idea?
 
Wegher is tearing it up this season at Morningside College. If only he could have wrapped it up ::sigh:: what could have been
 
JonDMiller said:
I am not going to write an item on this, because it's waaaaaay too subjective right now when there are acres of facts out there that will do.....but I will post some thoughts on the running back position at Iowa that have been running around my head.

Mark Weisman has 592 carries because Iowa has had a massive recruiting and/or development failure at the position...and/or trust issues with young players at most of the positions.

But I think one of Kirk's biggest blind spots, his Achilles Heel...is blind loyalty to those who are blindly loyal to him. From a human perspective, I get it...and can relate to it. Still, as a CEO or a head football coach at the college level, you have to get past that.

I will offer this example: Lester Erb.

Lester Erb was an assistant coach at Iowa for 13 years. From 2000 to 2007, he was Iowa's wide receivers coach along with Special Teams.

During that time, Iowa was signing/bringing in/developing some pretty good RUNNING BACKS (some offers listed in parenthesis):

Fred Russell
Jermelle Lewis
Albert Young (verbal to Wisconsin)
Justice Hairston (Penn State)
Shonn Greene (Clemson, Wisconsin)
Damian Sims (KSU, Pitt, Va Tech)
Kalvin Bailey (FSU, USC, GA, Miami, Neb)
Corey Robertson (Arizona, Texas A&M, TCU)
Anthony Bowman (Ohio State)
Jevon Pugh (Kansas State)
Jeff Brinson (MSU, OK St)
Adam Robinson (Gray shirt)

On February 11th, 2008, the man who was Iowa's running backs coach during the entire Ferentz era to that point, Carl Jackson, retires. Kirk Ferentz chooses to slide Lester Erb into the role of Running backs coach. Since then, here are the RUNNING BACKS Iowa has signed:

Brandon Wegher: A good pick up, talented player, in state
Marcus Coker: 4 star player, 'OK' offers; KSU, Minnesota, Wake Forest, Maryland)
De'Andre Johnson: at best Mid Major offers
Damon Bullock: Iowa was his lone high major offer, and he started as a WR
Jordan Canzeri: Not a lot of offers, smallish player
Mika'il McCall: (Illinois, Minnesota, Syracuse, nothing major)
Greg Garmon: A who's who of offers list
Barkley Hill: Iowa and Iowa State
Leshun Daniels: Akron, Boston College, Bowling Green
Jonathon Parker: Mid Majors
Akrum Wadley: Iowa and Temple

(No, I didn't include Rodney Coe. I never thought he'd play one down of running back at Iowa. Turns out he never played at Iowa at all)

Did Iowa have some misses during the Carl Jackson era as RB's coach? Yes. But they recruited a better quality of running back during his run than they did in the six or seven years following his retirement...markedly better under Carl Davis than Lester Erb.

Erb is not wholly responsible for the running backs that are brought in, but he was certainly played a pivotal role in development...and there hasn't been much development at Iowa at running back since Carl Davis retired. Have there been injuries? Yes. Have their been 'not in good standing' decisions away from the field? Yes.

But these things happen at other places, too...and Iowa has pretty much lacked quality and quality depth at this position for much of the last decade...and there remains a reticence to play young players unless their hand is forced. This is how you wind up with a walk on fullback who will go down in the Iowa record books with the 4th most carries in school history and what has allowed teams to exert their will on Iowa's running game for the better part of the last three seasons.

Ferentz hasn't really 'fired' anyone while at Iowa...Pat Flaherty was encouraged to look around early on...Darrell Wilson was passed over for the DC job and moved on. Eric Johnson was basically left to spin his wheels, moved into a position he probably didn't want and he chose to leave to join the fast food industry.

He allowed Rick Kaczenski to spew his brand of verbal 'tough love' for a number of years, as the defensive line was losing players at an alarming rate and something that Iowa is just now digging out of...and he encouraged him to look elsewhere.

Erb's contract was not renewed..that and Kaz are as close as Ferentz has gotten to getting his hands dirty on that front. When you are the CEO of an organization for 16 years, it's VERY, VERY unusual for this to be the case.

I think it stems from Kirk coming up through the assistant coaching ranks and knowing how hard of a road that is...Kirk was a mudder...he had to grind...he worked for Ken O'Keefe early on in his career, was a GA at Pitt, fibbed a bit when he interviewed with Hayden Fry, went out to the hinterlands in Maine, that didn't work and he clocked his time in the NFL...building a solid reputation along the way as a great teacher, and then was the fourth or so choice for the Iowa job. It worked out.

I think he's reticent to damage anyone's career with a black mark like a firing. Again, I get that human side of it. I've had to fire people before and it flat out sucks. Many of you have had to do that, too...and I am sure you didn't enjoy it. But there are times when that is the best thing for the company, or the organization.

You let a guy's contract expire who had been there for 13 years, and a guy you had leading your recruiting efforts in historically the 2nd most important state to your football program (Illinois) as well as developing a key position like running back? 13 years...and you just don't renew his contract. I'd suggest the evidence was there well before year 13 that it wasn't the best fit...well, I guess we've laid out some of that evidence above.

For a large portion of the Ferentz era, about 13 years, the coaching staff was pretty much unchanged. For so long, that continuity was viewed as a strength for Iowa and in many ways, it probably was. However when you have an organization with that little change, you get little change...probably not a lot of people shaking the tree in the meeting rooms, I would guess. You also had a world class college defensive coordinator and defense for much of the Ferentz era, until Norm Parker's health issues got the better of him and he had to step away. The defense was the ultimate backboard for Kirk Ferentz, the offense a necessary evil...and for a good chunk of the time, Iowa got away with it.

But inaction on Kaz and perhaps even Erb (hello special teams, and punter??), along with Norm Parker before forced to step away...then Ken O'Keefe choosing to leave the program...things have been shaky since then...and specifically at running back, things haven't been the same since Carl Jackson retired...it's just been a very slow bleed out to where we are now.

Anyway, this is just tea leaves stuff, and it's really hard to pin it down enough to where I'd put it in an article ...but I think there is something to it on many fronts.

Feel free to shoot holes in this, as I appreciate opposing ideas.
Click to expand...

SOUP??
 
JonDMiller said:
Erb's contract was not renewed..that and Kaz are as close as Ferentz has gotten to getting his hands dirty on that front. When you are the CEO of an organization for 16 years, it's VERY, VERY unusual for this to be the case.
Click to expand...

Its pretty much semantics but Erik Campbell was fired from the staff: "....Erik Campbell has landed in the Canadian Football League. Campbell, who was not retained by Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz after five seasons..."
 
PJHawk said:
Its pretty much semantics but Erik Campbell was fired from the staff: "....Erik Campbell has landed in the Canadian Football League. Campbell, who was not retained by Iowa coach Kirk Ferentz after five seasons..."
Click to expand...

BINGO
 
Ferentz's mentality is so risk averse. If he was on the gameshow Deal or no Deal he would take the first offer every time because he has no stomach for the unknown. Risk and reward are corollaries. When you manage risk down to almost nothing, you eliminate a lot of opportunity. This is business 101.
 
Jon, what do you think the chances are that Davis is shown the door/allowed to retire following the bowl game?
 
I've said this before in other threads, but I still think a lot of the problems go back to the assistant coaches, or lack thereof (in terms of quality). It's been pointed out before that Iowa's assistants are among the lowest paid in the conference. You get what you pay for.

It's a good point about Iowa's assistants being with the program for so long. I can appreciate stability and continuity, but at the same time, it also can be a signal that your assistants aren't that great if no other opportunities come along to lure them away. Great assistants move on to better opportunities - head coach, NFL, etc. Bret Bielema left for another gig, as have others.

So Norm has to step aside, KOK goes to the Dolphins, etc. and what does Kirk do? He hires an OC that was fired from another program, a guy who got fired despite better talent at TX than what he would have at Iowa. Why would he perform better with less talent? I'm guessing KF just went with an affordable yes man. I forget the name, but I thought there was another OC who was fired from Michigan, who also was a candidate at one point. In my mind, being with a blue blood program doesn't mean you are a great coach, if you got fired!!! Otherwise, it seemed like KF basically just promoted from within and shifted one coach from one coaching one unit to another.

Am I wrong?

Instead, KF could have gone out to try and get the best assistants he could find, but he didn't do that, and I think the results are starting to manifest themselves. There was talk at the time that Ferentz would probably get things back in track, or go down in flames, based on those choices. As I type this on 12/2/14, it appears to be the latter.
 
I don't think loyalty is the issue, its that he only wants guys who will submit to his will. You run the offense and defense he wants you to run, not the other way around. Greg Davis was perfect in this respect. An old broken down coach, getting his last shot at a major college job. He wants to put some money in the bank before he retires and is not going to do anything to risk those checks. Kirk can thumb his nose and say "See? I hired an offensive coordinator who won a National Championship."
 
I think poor ast hires have been a problem. Coach K and Soup in particular. Jon makes a good point about RB & ST being a problem. I still cant understand the GD hire. There is no replacing Norm Its not fair to compare to him. The whole GD thing could cost his legacy if he doesn't fix it soon. I don't understand our offense right now period
 
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