Do you have concerns with your son(s) playing football?

[hogeye]

Again, Jon didn't start a conversation about trips to the emergency room, broken fingers, or torn pecs. We're talking about the sort of long-term problems that have been revealing themselves lately-- in player suicides (Seau, Dave Henderson)-- that at least suggest there is a link between frequent hits to the head and significant loss of brain function.

Fair enough, but the thing is we don't have a barrage of players with injuries from high school or even college. It's almost been exclusively limited to career professional players.

Again, look at the statistics I posted. And of those players you're talking about another small percentage of players showing these kinds of problems.

 

[olivecourt]

Fair enough, but the thing is we don't have a barrage of players with injuries from high school or even college. It's almost been exclusively limited to career professional players.

Again, look at the statistics I posted. And of those players you're talking about another small percentage of players showing these kinds of problems.

We hear about professional players experiencing these problems in later life because they are more famous. Junior Seau's suicide was one of the lead stories on NBC nightly news. In contrast, there are tens of thousands of relatively anonymous former high school and college players out there, and no way to know if they've experienced any of these problems in significant numbers. We just don't know, other than to say that the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.

What we do know is that high school and college level players have sustained the type of brain injuries that lead to sudden death. There are also studies suggesting that players at all levels of football sustain less severe brain injuries that will not show their effects for years.

College football player who committed suicide had brain injury - CNN.com

College football star quits due to concussions, possible brain damage | HULIQ

Frostburg State University Football Player Dies After Head Injury - ABC News

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/20/sports/seemingly-ordinary-football-game-then-a-player-dies.html

Study -- Impact of kids' football head hits as severe as college game's - ESPN

I don't know what the answer is. I know that the fact that some people think that football is too popular to ever substantially change or fade from the limelight is not convincing. The two most popular spectator sports seventy-five years ago were boxing and horse racing. I wonder if we will look back on the "glory years" of football in the same way we look back at that era.

 

[hogeye]

I am extremely familiar with the studies. I've been to probably more concussion seminars than most people on this forum. I am not saying there isn't a problem. I am simply saying that the dynamics of a conversation about a persons child playing sports isn't the same as a conversation about career professional athletes. It's not completely analogous despite some similarity in concerns.

I am not saying we shouldn't have concerns. That's why I posted the basic links I did previously in the thread. Parents have more information now than ever before about these types of injuries and they can be directly involved in being educated on how to monitor their kids health and well being as well.

As to your question about football fading similarly to horse racing and boxing...possibly. I certainly get the impression there is a distinct, although minute, movement to ban the sport outright. All you'd have to do is get enough people motivated to legislate it out of high school and public leagues and you'd just about accomplish that goal.

There is no question we're seeing drastic changes to the game and I think more will come. The more you change the game to more you risk losing a portion of your fan base that enjoys the toughness of the game.

I am not naive enough to believe the NFL isn't vulnerable to a fall, but I think if they handle the situation as they have in recent years they can weather this. Like I've stated before on this forum it isn't fair to demonize the NFL too much on this concussion and head injury topic. Much of this is very new to the medical profession as a whole. It's not like the NFL has been deliberately negligent on this.

On a personal note I also tend to side with the personal responsibility side of the argument. These guys were well aware of the risk vs/ reward scenario going into the NFL. We've seen retired players for years with severe injury affecting their post-career quality of life. It's not the only profession like that either...we see this in truck drivers, coal miners, office workers and many other professions to varying degrees.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

You definitely win the ultimate troll award, that's for sure.

Trolling or having a different opinion/experience? I never once, and neither did my dad, worry about head injuries, long term problems, etc.

Call that trolling all you want. Nice post, btw. Way to add something.

 

[trj]

I am extremely familiar with the studies. I've been to probably more concussion seminars than most people on this forum. I am not saying there isn't a problem. I am simply saying that the dynamics of a conversation about a persons child playing sports isn't the same as a conversation about career professional athletes. It's not completely analogous despite some similarity in concerns.

I am not saying we shouldn't have concerns. That's why I posted the basic links I did previously in the thread. Parents have more information now than ever before about these types of injuries and they can be directly involved in being educated on how to monitor their kids health and well being as well.

As to your question about football fading similarly to horse racing and boxing...possibly. I certainly get the impression there is a distinct, although minute, movement to ban the sport outright. All you'd have to do is get enough people motivated to legislate it out of high school and public leagues and you'd just about accomplish that goal.

There is no question we're seeing drastic changes to the game and I think more will come. The more you change the game to more you risk losing a portion of your fan base that enjoys the toughness of the game.

I am not naive enough to believe the NFL isn't vulnerable to a fall, but I think if they handle the situation as they have in recent years they can weather this. Like I've stated before on this forum it isn't fair to demonize the NFL too much on this concussion and head injury topic. Much of this is very new to the medical profession as a whole. It's not like the NFL has been deliberately negligent on this.

On a personal note I also tend to side with the personal responsibility side of the argument. These guys were well aware of the risk vs/ reward scenario going into the NFL. We've seen retired players for years with severe injury affecting their post-career quality of life. It's not the only profession like that either...we see this in truck drivers, coal miners, office workers and many other professions to varying degrees.

I think this is Roger Goodell's veiwpoint as well......

 

[ThunderDunk]

I played quarterback and returned kicks and punts for a small high school in Iowa in the 90s. Our team was pretty bad and I got clocked just about every game but fortunately never had a concussion.

I have a 1.5 year old daughter now so maybe I never have to make this decision. As much as it pains me to admit it, I don't think I would want my boy in football. I wouldn't actively steer him away from the sport but I wouldn't push him toward it either. Mostly because of the head trauma but also because of joint pain and arthritis that I seem to be getting earlier than I should. I'll probably encourage all my kids to play sports like basketball and tennis that are easier on your body than football and can be played when you're older. I just hope they don't want to play soccer. I'm still not there yet.

 

[ihawkeye]

I can think of a lot more dangerous things that kids do. I understand the dangers of the sport but bike riding, baseball even swimming. If my boy wants to play football I'll let him play. He play baseball now and I worry more about some other kid swinging a bat and hitting him in the head or some other kid getting hit. I see so many kids standing around not paying attention where the baseball is at. A couple weeks ago a little guy took a ball right to the face. Ouch!!!

 

[ihawkeye]

I can think of a lot more dangerous things that kids do. I understand the dangers of the sport but bike riding, baseball even swimming. If my boy wants to play football I'll let him play. He play baseball now and I worry more about some other kid swinging a bat and hitting him in the head or some other kid getting hit. I see so many kids standing around not paying attention where the baseball is at. A couple weeks ago a little guy took a ball right to the face. Ouch!!!

 

[big10fan]

Oh, Thawki, you can't understand my post of trolling you but you can certainly understand his. Yeah, I'm the one without the proper comprehension skills.

sorry, i guess i thought your admission of trolling was enough to show that you were trolling...
and the funny part is while you were trying to get a rise out of someone, you got ticked off yourself. tide turned on you man. you're the one making it personal. btw, i've contributed to the thread, sorry i hijacked it from you...

 

[rjbaustian]

sorry, i guess i thought your admission of trolling was enough to show that you were trolling...
and the funny part is while you were trying to get a rise out of someone, you got ticked off yourself. tide turned on you man. you're the one making it personal. btw, i've contributed to the thread, sorry i hijacked it from you...

This is all he does. The last time I took a stand against him he went from making fun of, or at least attempting to make fun of what I make, then it went to my son. I am suprised that Jon allows these types on the boards, its disapointing to say the least. To be fair, I did attack him as well, but it was being a trolling ****** bag.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

sorry, i guess i thought your admission of trolling was enough to show that you were trolling...
and the funny part is while you were trying to get a rise out of someone, you got ticked off yourself. tide turned on you man. you're the one making it personal. btw, i've contributed to the thread, sorry i hijacked it from you...

I'm not sure you understood what I mean. The OP was the trolling party with nice little comment. I debated that point, the next poster got snarky with me...and so on. An admission can be sometimes sarcastic, but I would think you would have saw that as you can obviously tell how upset I am. (I guess I better insert this here: )

The funny part is you think you can tell by typing if someone is "ticked off". Kudos to you, man. I'm thoroughly impressed.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

This is all he does. The last time I took a stand against him he went from making fun of, or at least attempting to make fun of what I make, then it went to my son. I am suprised that Jon allows these types on the boards, its disapointing to say the least. To be fair, I did attack him as well, but it was being a trolling ****** bag.

So....you attack me, I say stuff back, and I am the dbag?

Gotcha. Just needed to know that for future reference. Carry on, rjb40k.

 

[SpiderRico]

I'm not sure you understood what I mean. The OP was the trolling party with nice little comment. I debated that point, the next poster got snarky with me...and so on. An admission can be sometimes sarcastic, but I would think you would have saw that as you can obviously tell how upset I am. (I guess I better insert this here: )

The funny part is you think you can tell by typing if someone is "ticked off". Kudos to you, man. I'm thoroughly impressed.

While I'm not the OP (that title goes to Jon), I was the one that made the comment concerning a parent that isn't concerned about his kids when they play football (or sports in general, for that matter).

While it might be somewhat over-the-top to say that a parent (mom OR dad) who says they aren't concerned about their kid playing sports is lying or doesn't give a $hit.....I DO stand by the spirit of that post. And it most certainly wasn't trolling.

It's fairly obvious who the parents are and are not in this thread.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

While I'm not the OP (that title goes to Jon), I was the one that made the comment concerning a parent that isn't concerned about his kids when they play football (or sports in general, for that matter).

While it might be somewhat over-the-top to say that a parent (mom OR dad) who says they aren't concerned about their kid playing sports is lying or doesn't give a $hit.....I DO stand by the spirit of that post. And it most certainly wasn't trolling.

It's fairly obvious who the parents are and are not in this thread.

That's fine, stand by it. But you are wrong in my instance. He DID NOT worry about me getting long term head injuries or getting paralyzed by me playing football. Nor is he lying, nor did he not give a $hit.

Whether that be the time frame in which I played or just not worried in general, it didn't concern him.

Take it however you want.

 

[rjbaustian]

So....you attack me, I say stuff back, and I am the dbag?

Gotcha. Just needed to know that for future reference. Carry on, rjb40k.

Yep,pretty much. At least in the 2 times Ive had an interaction with you. I "attacked" you because you guys were talking crap about JVB's girlfriend. And, by "Attacking" I mean I told you guys to grow up and leave her alone. Then you made it personal. I laugh when I see guys like you attempt to insult others around here on an internet messege board. You can say a lot of things that you wouldnt say in person. Most of the things you say here, if you had the nuts to say them in person, would get you knocked out. If you'd like to talk more about this face to face while tailgating next fall, you're more than welcome. Other than that, Im done with you here.

 

[Hawkeye11en1]

Yep,pretty much. At least in the 2 times Ive had an interaction with you. I "attacked" you because you guys were talking crap about JVB's girlfriend. And, by "Attacking" I mean I told you guys to grow up and leave her alone. Then you made it personal. I laugh when I see guys like you attempt to insult others around here on an internet messege board. You can say a lot of things that you wouldnt say in person. Most of the things you say here, if you had the nuts to say them in person, would get you knocked out. If you'd like to talk more about this face to face while tailgating next fall, you're more than welcome. Other than that, Im done with you here.

You find the post where I attacked JVB's girlfriend. Please. I welcome you. You might have to look for quite a while, however.

Will you at least turn on your little sirens when you take me to the hospital after knocking me out?


Here, I'll link the thread. Make it easy for you.

http://www.hawkeyenation.com/forum/football/45134-cool-story-brah.html

 

[SamsonHawk515]

Man this sucks, I roll to the end of a clearly relevant thread and come upon two grown men arguing on the internet.
Anyway, my thoughts on the topic at hand. I don’t know if this has already been addressed or written, but Frontline (PBS) documented the prevalence of helmet to helmet hits in high school. What they found is most players at a young age are not skilled enough or to inexperienced to hit correctly. In reality, you have to be a quality athlete to control your body and not lead with your head.
A startling statistic from the New York Times states 50% of football players have experienced a concussion and 35% had experienced multiple concussions. As a high school athlete are you educated enough at that age to understand what a concussion is?
In my experience playing the game at the CIML level, I’m not sure if I knew what a concussion was and if I did I certainly wasn’t educated to tell my coach. Currently, there are forms each player and parents sign about the risks of concussions and signs, symptoms ect…. This is a step in the right direction, but more needs to be done and a 30 minute video about not leading with your head is not enough. (anybody remember that thing)
With this being said, the game revolves around violence and success will always be predicated on who is more physical you or the player across from you. This aspect cannot be changed and should not be changed, but in order to protect our student athletes and the game we love some extremely smart people need to invent some helmets that protect football players most valuable organ.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Man this sucks, I roll to the end of a clearly relevant thread and come upon two grown men arguing on the internet.
Anyway, my thoughts on the topic at hand. I don’t know if this has already been addressed or written, but Frontline (PBS) documented the prevalence of helmet to helmet hits in high school. What they found is most players at a young age are not skilled enough or to inexperienced to hit correctly. In reality, you have to be a quality athlete to control your body and not lead with your head.
A startling statistic from the New York Times states 50% of football players have experienced a concussion and 35% had experienced multiple concussions. As a high school athlete are you educated enough at that age to understand what a concussion is?
In my experience playing the game at the CIML level, I’m not sure if I knew what a concussion was and if I did I certainly wasn’t educated to tell my coach. Currently, there are forms each player and parents sign about the risks of concussions and signs, symptoms ect…. This is a step in the right direction, but more needs to be done and a 30 minute video about not leading with your head is not enough. (anybody remember that thing)
With this being said, the game revolves around violence and success will always be predicated on who is more physical you or the player across from you. This aspect cannot be changed and should not be changed, but in order to protect our student athletes and the game we love some extremely smart people need to invent some helmets that protect football players most valuable organ.

This really explains the problem. The helmet allows the head to be used as a weapon and the players really don't know any better (plus they watch the hits on TV). It really is a brutally dangerous sport for young people.

 

[AreWeThereYet]

I am extremely familiar with the studies. I've been to probably more concussion seminars than most people on this forum. I am not saying there isn't a problem. I am simply saying that the dynamics of a conversation about a persons child playing sports isn't the same as a conversation about career professional athletes. It's not completely analogous despite some similarity in concerns.

I am not saying we shouldn't have concerns. That's why I posted the basic links I did previously in the thread. Parents have more information now than ever before about these types of injuries and they can be directly involved in being educated on how to monitor their kids health and well being as well.

As to your question about football fading similarly to horse racing and boxing...possibly. I certainly get the impression there is a distinct, although minute, movement to ban the sport outright. All you'd have to do is get enough people motivated to legislate it out of high school and public leagues and you'd just about accomplish that goal.

There is no question we're seeing drastic changes to the game and I think more will come. The more you change the game to more you risk losing a portion of your fan base that enjoys the toughness of the game.

I am not naive enough to believe the NFL isn't vulnerable to a fall, but I think if they handle the situation as they have in recent years they can weather this. Like I've stated before on this forum it isn't fair to demonize the NFL too much on this concussion and head injury topic. Much of this is very new to the medical profession as a whole. It's not like the NFL has been deliberately negligent on this.

On a personal note I also tend to side with the personal responsibility side of the argument. These guys were well aware of the risk vs/ reward scenario going into the NFL. We've seen retired players for years with severe injury affecting their post-career quality of life. It's not the only profession like that either...we see this in truck drivers, coal miners, office workers and many other professions to varying degrees.

You are quite right that the conversation about parents concerns and the converstion about long term professionals are two very different things. What parents need to be more concerned with are single tramatic injuries and their consequences. Professional players have extra concerns about long term damage. Chronic Tramatic Encephalopathy (CTE) as it's name indicates is a chronic long term condition. It is a specific pathology associated with long term buildup of protein plaques within the brain tissue much like found in Alzheimer's and Parkinsen's disease.

(PCS) Post Concussion Syndrome and Multiple concussion syndrome are not lesser forms of CTE. As of now, they really don't know who will eventually eventually progress into the full blown degenerative disorder. They don't know if there is a general suseptiblity or if there is a subgroup that are susceptible to CTE.

At the cellular level there may be fundimental differences in how well damage is being repaired leaving behind tangled plaques within brain tissue, which in turn lead to progressive cell death.

 

[woodyk1]

Interesting article from Frank DeFord ...

Despite football's popularity, society can't jeopardize our men - Frank Deford - SI.com

The very brutal nature of football is what makes it so uniquely popular to Americans, but how can you distill the violence from the game and sustain its enchantment? And if it remains so dangerous a sport -- never mind liability -- when will we reach a point, ethically and compassionately, when some major school, some conference, some high school association is the first to say: We're sorry, but as much as we love to watch football, we can't any longer countenance putting our boys in jeopardy, playing this brain game for our vicarious amusement?

The more we learn about head injuries, the more it seems that football is becoming like bullfighting. Only the bulls are young men.