Dienhart: Q&A with Greg Davis

[trj]

Not disagreeing at all. We need to continue to develop better WR’s but when I read this originally it struck me as odd and I researched it. Texas isn’t burning up the NFL with high-end speedy WR’s and in fact llinois has as many as they do and faster at that.

I’ve listed them before but from memory…Quan Cosby was a very good college Wr but he was 5-9 and ran a 4.5….James kirkendoll was very slight at 5-10 175 and did run a 4.38 but he was no superstar. John Chiles was a terrific athlete and big but not overly productive though he is 6-2 and ran a 4.42 and Shipley who I love ran a 4.6 Combine time and a 4.52 Pro day……

So although I agree we need more everything out on the edge I don’t find Texas to be a very good litmus test. So I’m taking it with a grain of salt. It’s also the first time Ive seen him acknowledge its something we’ve been addressing already. Finally I think what isn’t being said is “skilled†Wr’s…he is calling it speed, but I think we will one day find out Jordan Cotton and Don Shumpert are quite fast in comparison to NFL WR’s but they aren’t actually that good…hopefully I’m proven wrong.

Davis on the other had I think we will find is fast and good and KMM I imagine isn’t overly fast but he is surely as fast as Shipley’s 4.6ish…The other guys we really don’t know yet, right?!

As a steeler fan I can tell you Limas Sweed was a bust.... a lot of it was personal BS anyway did not mean to hijack the thread.

 

[Foval21]

i think davis's speed comment is more about quickness. we have speed at wr but we arent that quick. our separation under kok came from double moves, patterns that crossed each other, and/or long developing plays where our speed overtook dbs, not to mention playaction.

i believe davis is looking for quickness off the los because of the west coast passing system and that is where we lack.

 

[trj]

Chad,

Generally I agree with you, and in terms of 40 speed there may not be a huge differential between Iowa and Texas, but I do believe there is a gap especially when looking at overall depth.

My own opinion is that Iowa lacks WR that have speed in traffic or with real dynamic burst.

Was Marvin mcNutt fast? You bet. Great top end. Even good forty speed. What he lacked was real explosion out of breaks. Iowa has seemed to have a fair number of striders. Guys that are great running through zones, running the post or cross on play action. In those scenarios they can get open.

Against man coverage, with a press defender they disappear. My own opinion is they don't have real dynamic, explosive players who can create space off the line or out of cuts.

Shumpert and cotton have more of that but lack in other critical areas.

KMM and Davis are longer striders with good top end speed but don't know if they can create a lot of space vs tight press against the defenses the likes of MSU and Neb last year ( neither could Marvin).

I also believe, in part, it was a system issue as well.

My opinion.

This is spot on......Is CJ Jones and '03 Ramon Ochoa the best that it got during the KF era in terms of this during the KF era?

 

[cmhawks99]

Chad,

Generally I agree with you, and in terms of 40 speed there may not be a huge differential between Iowa and Texas, but I do believe there is a gap especially when looking at overall depth.

My own opinion is that Iowa lacks WR that have speed in traffic or with real dynamic burst.

Was Marvin mcNutt fast? You bet. Great top end. Even good forty speed. What he lacked was real explosion out of breaks. Iowa has seemed to have a fair number of striders. Guys that are great running through zones, running the post or cross on play action. In those scenarios they can get open.

Against man coverage, with a press defender they disappear. My own opinion is they don't have real dynamic, explosive players who can create space off the line or out of cuts.

Shumpert and cotton have more of that but lack in other critical areas.

KMM and Davis are longer striders with good top end speed but don't know if they can create a lot of space vs tight press against the defenses the likes of MSU and Neb last year ( neither could Marvin).

I also believe, in part, it was a system issue as well.

My opinion.

Those are good thoughts and I certainly agree there is a major difference between short area quickness and explosion and I’d say it’s also true a long lanky guy like Marvin takes so time to unwind. With that said Iowa has traditionally (that’s the beauty of how Doyle strength trains) has scored well in Pro agility and shuttle times even when they weren’t blazingly fast top end. I had thought Marvin even scored decent (don’t remember for sure) but my thoughts on him are twofold. Number one he is still only 3 years into becoming a Wr. 2nd..it seems to me that getting off jams is as much a strength and leverage thing as it is anything else…so experience along with hand placement, ripping, etc….may be as important or more so than quick’s….

Plus when you stop and consider that despite what the critics who want us to press more think….there still isn’t a ton of press coverage going on out there and Marvin obviously still hadn’t excelled at getting off it. Though he did from time to time and that makes it dangerous to do it all the time…hence why people didn’t. It also takes a special player to be able to press a lot.

As far as our Wr’s as a whole. I just think we need better ones all the way around and more than speed we need someone who can catch the ball….Eddy Hinkel wasn’t real fast (fast enuff though) nor was Dom Douglass but they caught the ball. I do get your thoughts about quickness underneath however and you may be right.

 

[cmhawks99]

I am not sure what WR's at Texas has to do with him saying that Iowa needs more speed at the WR position? Are you saying that because Texas didn't have a bunch of burners that he really doesn't want speedy receivers and is for some reason lying?

Not at all and quite frankly Im not sure where you are going here or what I should say so Ill stop right there.....

 

[cmhawks99]

This is spot on......Is CJ Jones and '03 Ramon Ochoa the best that it got during the KF era in terms of this during the KF era?

Ochoa is a perfect example and CJ was a stud (forgot about them both actually) but one of my favorites was Mo Brown. Honestly weve had some decent Wr's now that you think of it.

 

[cmhawks99]

As a steeler fan I can tell you Limas Sweed was a bust.... a lot of it was personal BS anyway did not mean to hijack the thread.

I for got all about Limas Sweed...he was a very good college WR. Do you happen to remember how fast he ran the forty...maybe Ill look later?!

 

[hawkeyegamefilm]

i think davis's speed comment is more about quickness. we have speed at wr but we arent that quick. our separation under kok came from double moves, patterns that crossed each other, and/or long developing plays where our speed overtook dbs, not to mention playaction.

i believe davis is looking for quickness off the los because of the west coast passing system and that is where we lack.

I'd say this is on point. The best WR of all time Jerry Rice was incredibly consistent off the line. Despite his pretty average long speed Rice had a great initial burst and was very precise with his routes. Add in the fact he was one of the best conditioned athletes in any sport, a brilliant set of OCs who's system was tailor made for him, and you have a special career.

Good video that backs up his explosiveness off the line & it's value: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3nSuvUM0Q]FSN Sport Science - Episode 3 - Reaction Time - Jerry Rice - YouTube[/ame]

 

[HawkeyeFan57]

But if our defense does not run press coverage in practice, how does our WR's get experience against it. Sounds like the DB's will run some press coverage in the future. Hopefully, it helps develop our WR's.

 

[Tmoney12]

Chad, Generally I agree with you, and in terms of 40 speed there may not be a huge differential between Iowa and Texas, but I do believe there is a gap especially when looking at overall depth. My own opinion is that Iowa lacks WR that have speed in traffic or with real dynamic burst. Was Marvin mcNutt fast? You bet. Great top end. Even good forty speed. What he lacked was real explosion out of breaks. Iowa has seemed to have a fair number of striders. Guys that are great running through zones, running the post or cross on play action. In those scenarios they can get open. Against man coverage, with a press defender they disappear. My own opinion is they don't have real dynamic, explosive players who can create space off the line or out of cuts. Shumpert and cotton have more of that but lack in other critical areas. KMM and Davis are longer striders with good top end speed but don't know if they can create a lot of space vs tight press against the defenses the likes of MSU and Neb last year ( neither could Marvin). I also believe, in part, it was a system issue as well. My opinion.

Those are good thoughts and I certainly agree there is a major difference between short area quickness and explosion and I�d say it�s also true a long lanky guy like Marvin takes so time to unwind. With that said Iowa has traditionally (that�s the beauty of how Doyle strength trains) has scored well in Pro agility and shuttle times even when they weren�t blazingly fast top end. I had thought Marvin even scored decent (don�t remember for sure) but my thoughts on him are twofold. Number one he is still only 3 years into becoming a Wr. 2nd..it seems to me that getting off jams is as much a strength and leverage thing as it is anything else�so experience along with hand placement, ripping, etc�.may be as important or more so than quick�s�. Plus when you stop and consider that despite what the critics who want us to press more think�.there still isn�t a ton of press coverage going on out there and Marvin obviously still hadn�t excelled at getting off it. Though he did from time to time and that makes it dangerous to do it all the time�hence why people didn�t. It also takes a special player to be able to press a lot. As far as our Wr�s as a whole. I just think we need better ones all the way around and more than speed we need someone who can catch the ball�.Eddy Hinkel wasn�t real fast (fast enuff though) nor was Dom Douglass but they caught the ball. I do get your thoughts about quickness underneath however and you may be right.

Dom Douglass??? You mean the guy Kirk led a cover up and watergate like scandel for?

 

[cmhawks99]

Dom Douglass??? You mean the guy Kirk led a cover up and watergate like scandel for?

I’m a little confused but ah, yeah I guess so. For the one year he was here he was impressive. Too bad he couldn't keep it together. On a side note he was one of the guys in that class that I’m not sure anyone was really all that excited about and his video wasn't really "all that" but he came in ready and he looked the part....but sadly he couldn’t look the part off the field.

 

[hawkeye2011]

Those are good thoughts and I certainly agree there is a major difference between short area quickness and explosion and I’d say it’s also true a long lanky guy like Marvin takes so time to unwind. With that said Iowa has traditionally (that’s the beauty of how Doyle strength trains) has scored well in Pro agility and shuttle times even when they weren’t blazingly fast top end. I had thought Marvin even scored decent (don’t remember for sure) but my thoughts on him are twofold. Number one he is still only 3 years into becoming a Wr. 2nd..it seems to me that getting off jams is as much a strength and leverage thing as it is anything else…so experience along with hand placement, ripping, etc….may be as important or more so than quick’s….

Plus when you stop and consider that despite what the critics who want us to press more think….there still isn’t a ton of press coverage going on out there and Marvin obviously still hadn’t excelled at getting off it. Though he did from time to time and that makes it dangerous to do it all the time…hence why people didn’t. It also takes a special player to be able to press a lot.

As far as our Wr’s as a whole. I just think we need better ones all the way around and more than speed we need someone who can catch the ball….Eddy Hinkel wasn’t real fast (fast enuff though) nor was Dom Douglass but they caught the ball. I do get your thoughts about quickness underneath however and you may be right.

Not a ton of press man, but the games where we truly struggled offensively it was certainly incorporated. Nebraska for sure, Oklahoma and MSU to a degree as well.

Getting off the jam is a function of technique, strength, and quick feet. Could be marv lacked proficient technique, and/or quick burst, but he wasn't as effective.

But man coverage minus press at the LOS is just as much a problem for us. Again I think some of it is personnel, I think some degree of it is/was scheme.

I believe Davis will take a different approach than KOK. I believe you will see more compressed/bunch formations to manufacture space via rubs/picks, as well as limiting a jam on the LOS if warranted.

I think you will also see a greater number of tight end personnel groupings were they are slot players. In other words if you can't create space to throw the football running away from the defense you try and create a mismatch physically because the defense has to match personnel of multiple TE's who can be blockers or pass receivers. Either you get someone poor in coverage, or you get a defensive personnel not equipped to defend the run or does not match up well with a TE in space.

Lastly I think the RB will be better utilized in the passing game. Bullock and Canzeri (if/when healthy) are Taylor made for catching the ball in space.