Derrick Willies

We seem to spend a lot of time crying in our beer about this kid. We don't know the whole story. It would've been cool if it worked out. It didn't. I guess I'll just have to move on.
 


deanvogs said:
Hold on. Why do posters think a kid who is a whole 4 or 5 games into his college career should be DEMANDING his playing time? The simple fact is he was a Fr who was finding his way like 99% of FR before him. He was clearly behind KMM and Tevaun, and was firmly planted in the next group (MVB, Powell, Hillyer, and Willies). Each player was getting into games and getting snaps.

if your point is that every player 4 or 5 games into their career is getting screwed over by KF with not enough playing time, then I disagree. More goes into than just hey I think I'm the bomb and super talented. Take Wadley for instance, he had to overcome his fumbling issues and he had to get better off the field keeping his weight up. Those things matter to this staff, and they make those things perfectly clear to the players. If you think these things shouldn't matter or don't apply to you just because you think you are special, then this program isn't for you.

It is like posters for some reason don't value developing the player. It is actually in Willies best interest to make him work harder on and off the field. As a coach your carrot is playing time, if you do X and Y you get rewarded with playing time. KF is interested in getting the most out of his players, he isn't interested in letting his standards of what he expects from all his players to be jeapordized by a RS FR who thinks he "deserves" more.
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Dean where did I say in my post that I think that a kid should be DEMANDING his playing time? I don't remember saying that every player 4 or 5 games into their career is getting screwed over by KF either. Nor did I say that I don't value developing players, Iowa is a great at developing players. I did say that it could be possible that fault lies on both sides, is that really that hard to imagine?

Dean what would you call CJ's Dad going to the paper and mentioning that he might transfer? Is that at all like DEMANDING playing time? Those were pretty extreme measures by his Dad but boy are we all glad that things worked out the way they did. Maybe CJ's Dad didn't value (like you do) how Iowa develops players.
 






Tate4Heisman said:
Dean where did I say in my post that I think that a kid should be DEMANDING his playing time? I don't remember saying that every player 4 or 5 games into their career is getting screwed over by KF either. Nor did I say that I don't value developing players, Iowa is a great at developing players. I did say that it could be possible that fault lies on both sides, is that really that hard to imagine?

Dean what would you call CJ's Dad going to the paper and mentioning that he might transfer? Is that at all like DEMANDING playing time? Those were pretty extreme measures by his Dad but boy are we all glad that things worked out the way they did. Maybe CJ's Dad didn't value (like you do) how Iowa develops players.
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What does a kid that stayed at Iowa have to do with Willies who quit? Why don't you also compare Willies to Pat Angerer, Louis Trinca Pasat, or Sean Welsh while you are at it?

So what exactly is KF fault here? That he didn't play Willies more? How do you know if he deserved to play more? Maybe he was dogging it in practice, maybe he didn't work hard in the offseason, maybe, just maybe MVB was ahead of him in several ways.

The kid was 4 or 5 games into his career and he was getting as many snaps as any other WR not named KMM or Tevaun. I don't get how any right minded person can look at Willies and pretend that he was shoved onto the 4th team and wasn't playing. The kid was getting time, and then he got injuried, WTF is KF supposed to do, give the kid a starting spot to appease him?
 


SpecialKHawk said:
Your opinion. I recall CJ's interview when he made it sound like he was disappointed to see DW go. We have all seen the kind of character CJ has so I trust him.

This likely became a war of wills between the head coach and the player. The head coach who has good principles but is extremely stubborn. The player that had 10x the ability of guys he was buried behind on the depth chart, knew it and teammates knew it. The player that torched our defense in open scrimmages which has not happened since. He even made a few big plays early in the season. There was also a war of wills about getting CJ on the field the year before and look how that turned out this past year. It nearly broke the fan base and some fans have not returned to Kinnick yet.

Unfortunately we just do not get difference makers like DW all that often at WR so it's disappointing to see that squandered. You can use all the fancy team jargon you want but he could have been the difference. Big time players make big time plays. Big time plays win games and that's as good as anything for team morale.
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You're right on point...college football players should call the shots. Dw should have been rewarded for being a whiney baby. Heck, I think all successful coaches in the history of the game have given in to the demands of a talented yet unproven kid. Let's see...Lombardi...yea he sat in bed at night and wished so hard upon a star that his players liked him and would just be so grateful that they dragged him along to all of their victories. Then there is Bear Bryant..gosh I'll bet he is sad that he didn't have more primadonnas to teach him how to win. Oh and lets not forget about Knute Rockne or any other of the lucky legendary coaches who cow-towed to a talented player who had no heart or discipline. F'ing Ferentz!
 


deanvogs said:
What does a kid that stayed at Iowa have to do with Willies who quit? Why don't you also compare Willies to Pat Angerer, Louis Trinca Pasat, or Sean Welsh while you are at it?

So what exactly is KF fault here? That he didn't play Willies more? How do you know if he deserved to play more? Maybe he was dogging it in practice, maybe he didn't work hard in the offseason, maybe, just maybe MVB was ahead of him in several ways.

The kid was 4 or 5 games into his career and he was getting as many snaps as any other WR not named KMM or Tevaun. I don't get how any right minded person can look at Willies and pretend that he was shoved onto the 4th team and wasn't playing. The kid was getting time, and then he got injuried, WTF is KF supposed to do, give the kid a starting spot to appease him?
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I wasn't comparing CJ's situation with Willies. What I was trying to find out is what you thought of CJ's Dad going to the press to discuss his potential transfer? Taking Willies out of the equation, if you can do that for a second, did you see that as a way of DEMANDING playing time? Do you think that maybe CJ's Dad wasn't appreciating the way Iowa and KF develops players? I won't respond going forward as a favor to the board as I am sure they are growing tired of listening to me.
 




Tate4Heisman said:
I wasn't comparing CJ's situation with Willies. What I was trying to find out is what you thought of CJ's Dad going to the press to discuss his potential transfer? Taking Willies out of the equation, if you can do that for a second, did you see that as a way of DEMANDING playing time? Do you think that maybe CJ's Dad wasn't appreciating the way Iowa and KF develops players? I won't respond going forward as a favor to the board as I am sure they are growing tired of listening to me.
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CJ's dad didn't go to the press to discuss CJ's potential transfer, but nice try. Someone asked for an interview and CJ's dad gave one. They asked a question about CJ and what he would do next year, and he answered. CJ's Dad has been on several podcasts and explained his interview. If you listened to them you would understand he never presented a ultimatum, and had never actually discussed CJ transferring at all with CJ. IF you listened to the podcast you would understand that CJ's dad has always appreciated Iowa, even when his son wasn't playing.

You can try to twist this any way you like. CJ sat behind another QB and competed for the job for 2 full years before beating the incumbent out. Willies competed for 4 or 5 games, was actually getting playing time, and decided to quit. What exactly was his beef? His friend CJ said it was over playing time. So Willies must have deemed himself starter worthy, as only KMM and Tevaun were getting more reps than him.
 
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This is just a ridiculous thread. Iowa went 12-0 last year and Smith and Beathard put Iowa up 13-9 late in the 4th quarter against MSU. If the iowa defense gets one stop on that ridiculous 22 play drive, Iowa goes 13-0. What would Willes have added? Would he have replaced either Smith or Vandeberg, who were both outstanding all year?? He would not have made a difference last year.
 


ChosenChildren said:
This is just a ridiculous thread. Iowa went 12-0 last year and Smith and Beathard put Iowa up 13-9 late in the 4th quarter against MSU. If the iowa defense gets one stop on that ridiculous 22 play drive, Iowa goes 13-0. What would Willes have added? Would he have replaced either Smith or Vandeberg, who were both outstanding all year?? He would not have made a difference last year.
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We might be one of the few schools in the country that would complain about how their coach does things after a 12-0 season. He's frustrated me in the past to, but if he goes 12-0 or 11-1, or 10-2 I honestly just have to tip my cap and enjoy the ride. Now several seasons before last year, go ahead fire away, but he made changes and got results.
 


I will apologize in advance for going back on my work and posting again in this thread that everyone wants to die.

Dean I am not sure if you remember what a stir this caused in HN at the time. Here is a sample from a poster who may have thought that an ultimatum had been given by the Beathards. To protect the innocent I will refer to this poster as Poster A.

Great post.

I think people who have never been in positions of leadership just don't understand this. All CJ & his dad did was insure that he gets the exact same treatment he got all year long out of KF. If KF was really going to start CJ, or play CJ extended minutes, what CJ and his dad said only guaranteed that KF now has to scrap that plan and go back to what he did all year long.

For those that don't get it let me explain.
1) KF still has 85 scholarship players that he has to coach, he can't now let one set terms and dictate to him what is to happen on the field. This will only lead to 84 other players trying to do the same
2) It sets the precedent that it is OK to air these types of things outside of your office.
3) It sets the precedent that parents can bully and dictate playing time for their kids
4) If KF appears to have been dictated to by a player and parent (even if he fully intended to start him before they made these comments) it makes him look weak and ineffective.
5) No single player is above the program.

I think this sealed CJ's fate, and nothing will change from the way KF put him in games the whole year. If KF actually does start or play CJ extended minutes I will say that KF is very comfortable in his own skin, and it was a decision he had already made. Not only comfortable in his own skin, but also able to set his ego aside as well. No way, no how would it because CJ and his dad laid down some ultimatum to him.

And when another poster suggested the Fred Hoiberg may handle if differently it got this response from Poster A.

I think you are wrong about Freddie. I don't think he would accept for one second a player coming out crying about playing time, or threatening to transfer if they "didn't play more". Freddie would open the door and say, get the F out now, I'll get someone else to replace you. I just don't see many coaches of any sport responding to a kid laying down an ultimatum like that in the public with actually giving him more playing time.
 


Tate4Heisman said:
I will apologize in advance for going back on my work and posting again in this thread that everyone wants to die.

Dean I am not sure if you remember what a stir this caused in HN at the time. Here is a sample from a poster who may have thought that an ultimatum had been given by the Beathards. To protect the innocent I will refer to this poster as Poster A.

Great post.

I think people who have never been in positions of leadership just don't understand this. All CJ & his dad did was insure that he gets the exact same treatment he got all year long out of KF. If KF was really going to start CJ, or play CJ extended minutes, what CJ and his dad said only guaranteed that KF now has to scrap that plan and go back to what he did all year long.

For those that don't get it let me explain.
1) KF still has 85 scholarship players that he has to coach, he can't now let one set terms and dictate to him what is to happen on the field. This will only lead to 84 other players trying to do the same
2) It sets the precedent that it is OK to air these types of things outside of your office.
3) It sets the precedent that parents can bully and dictate playing time for their kids
4) If KF appears to have been dictated to by a player and parent (even if he fully intended to start him before they made these comments) it makes him look weak and ineffective.
5) No single player is above the program.

I think this sealed CJ's fate, and nothing will change from the way KF put him in games the whole year. If KF actually does start or play CJ extended minutes I will say that KF is very comfortable in his own skin, and it was a decision he had already made. Not only comfortable in his own skin, but also able to set his ego aside as well. No way, no how would it because CJ and his dad laid down some ultimatum to him.

And when another poster suggested the Fred Hoiberg may handle if differently it got this response from Poster A.

I think you are wrong about Freddie. I don't think he would accept for one second a player coming out crying about playing time, or threatening to transfer if they "didn't play more". Freddie would open the door and say, get the F out now, I'll get someone else to replace you. I just don't see many coaches of any sport responding to a kid laying down an ultimatum like that in the public with actually giving him more playing time.
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Everyone remembers how much of a stir it caused at the time. That's what fans do. They overreact to things that they hear.

However, you didn't acknowledge the main thing that Dean said to you. Did you hear any of the several interviews/podcasts CJ's Dad was a part of after the incident you keep dragging on about? Clearly you didn't because if you did you wouldn't be making yourself look like an idiot right now. CJ's Dad clarified exactly how he has always felt about the Iowa program (nothing but good things to say). He made it very clear he wasn't giving an ultimatum and that he didn't even know what CJ was thinking at that time. He was asked a question on the radio. He answered it as best he could, and it caused a controversy that he wasn't expecting. In no way did he mean to present it in the way that you are suggesting. He was simply acknowledging the fact that CJ would have to evaluate what's in his best interests at the end of the season, and that any decision CJ makes would be up to him. I imagine that's exactly what many players in his situation would have done. At that time he didn't have any guarantees.

I'm not even sure what the point of your whole diatribe is.
 


No I haven't listened to the podcast and I realize what CJ's dad is saying now. If I have a point it is that people tend to forget how things really happened and how it was perceived regardless of intent. We have all said things that we might regret and given the opportunity explained what we really meant. That in no way changes how his originial comments were perceived. Most hawk fans (including Dean) took it as an ultimatum. Now that CJ has turned out to be a great kid, leader, and quarterback it wasn't an ultimatum and his dad was just misunderstood. Here is a portion of the article with quotes from Casey.

Writing the next chapter

Although C.J. insisted he hasn't thought yet about the possibility of a transfer and won't until after the TaxSlayer Bowl, his father acknowledged it as a possibility.

"His biggest thing is he just wants to play," Casey said.

C.J. hopes that will be at Iowa. Casey said the thought of changing schools makes his son queasy. He also isn't thrilled about the possibility of sitting out next season if he transfers to another Football Bowl Subdivision team.

"He's really hoping he doesn't have to transfer," Casey said. "I said (to him), 'Hopefully it'll be obvious in this game, one way or the other.' "

I won't argue with you about me being an idiot. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Having met CJ he is a good kid and the way he handles himself is a reflection on the great job that his parents did raising him.
 


Tate4Heisman said:
No I haven't listened to the podcast and I realize what CJ's dad is saying now. If I have a point it is that people tend to forget how things really happened and how it was perceived regardless of intent. We have all said things that we might regret and given the opportunity explained what we really meant. That in no way changes how his originial comments were perceived. Most hawk fans (including Dean) took it as an ultimatum. Now that CJ has turned out to be a great kid, leader, and quarterback it wasn't an ultimatum and his dad was just misunderstood. Here is a portion of the article with quotes from Casey.

Writing the next chapter

Although C.J. insisted he hasn't thought yet about the possibility of a transfer and won't until after the TaxSlayer Bowl, his father acknowledged it as a possibility.

"His biggest thing is he just wants to play," Casey said.

C.J. hopes that will be at Iowa. Casey said the thought of changing schools makes his son queasy. He also isn't thrilled about the possibility of sitting out next season if he transfers to another Football Bowl Subdivision team.

"He's really hoping he doesn't have to transfer," Casey said. "I said (to him), 'Hopefully it'll be obvious in this game, one way or the other.' "

I won't argue with you about me being an idiot. Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Having met CJ he is a good kid and the way he handles himself is a reflection on the great job that his parents did raising him.
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What exactly does this have to do with Willies again?
 


About 8 posts up I was asking Dean what he thought about CJ's prior situation. I was interested because he has some very strong opinions about Willies and his character. I was wondering if he was upset in how CJ handled it. Since he didn't answer, I went back to look at prior posts to find out what he thought at the time and I decided to paste his posts.
 


Ferentz made a mistake not playing CJ earlier. He was clearly the better quarterback. Willies could have very well been the best receiver on the team that year (I'm not saying he was I'm saying he could have been). He would still be here if he wasn't a baby about it. But he also would have still been here if Ferentz was better at weighing talent vs experience. It's got to be a tough thing to do and some coaches are going to be better at it than others. I just think Kirk has made some really bad decisions over the years. All coaches are going to be wrong on some gray area decisions, but it seems like he has been wrong on multiple black and white ddcisions. Rudock/CJ being one of them. It probably cost us 3 wins that year and if he would have stuck with Jake, it probably would have cost us 3 wins this year. Maybe he was right on the Willies decision. But I just don't trust him anymore.
 


Tate4Heisman said:
About 8 posts up I was asking Dean what he thought about CJ's prior situation. I was interested because he has some very strong opinions about Willies and his character. I was wondering if he was upset in how CJ handled it. Since he didn't answer, I went back to look at prior posts to find out what he thought at the time and I decided to paste his posts.
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I answered your stupid question even though it has NOTHING to do with Willies. CJ's dad has clarified what he was doing, but obviously you think he was lying.

I don't care about the character of Willies. All I know is he is no longer a Hawk. He quit 4 or 5 games into his college career and his good friend said he wasn't happy with his playing time. I think he showed little to no maturity quitting over social media. I think he showed little to no maturity in saying he wanted back on the team over social media. None of this mean he lacks character at all. He is a 20 something year old that obviously has much to learn about how to deal with adversity. I hope he figures it out, I hope he does well at Tech. I'm just tired of posters who think the immaturity of a kid is somehow KF fault. I would go so far as to say Willies quit the team and that is 100% on him and 0.0% on KF, and any reasonable person can see that. I have noticed that you have yet to address the fact that he was getting just as much playing time at WR as Powell, MVB, and Hillyer. He was only behind the undisputed starters KMM and Smith. It isn't like he was languishing on the practice squad.

Considering you said many post ago that you stop your "puzzing match", hopefully at some point you will actually abide by your word. I'm done with you and your stupid CJ's dad straw man when we are talking about a guy who freaking quit the team.
 


Dean I already apologized about going back on my word, that is what adults do when they make a mistake. How about you previously posting that it was an ultimatum by the Beathard's? Have you changed your mind about that? Of course you have, revisionists history is a wonderful thing.
 


Tate4Heisman said:
Dean I already apologized about going back on my word, that is what adults do when they make a mistake. How about you previously posting that it was an ultimatum by the Beathard's? Have you changed your mind about that? Of course you have, revisionists history is a wonderful thing.
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It's ok to change your mind. Especially after more fact come out.
 


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