DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
PhoenixHawk is right on.
Death to the BCS!
- Thread starter atxhawk
- Start date
The notion that some teams will get left out happens in every sport at every level. Every year a bunch of 'bubble' teams get left out of the NCAA tourney and it really doesn't affect the final product. Same thing in the other sports, the NFL turns away plenty of 9-7 and 10-6 teams from the post-season.
The other notion that doesn't make sense is that a playoff system will some how lesson the importance of a regular season. If anything it would be the biggest reward in all of major team sports. To put it in perspective...
8 out of 30 MLB teams or 27% of the league makes the playoffs.
12 out 32 NFL teams make the playoffs that's 37.5% of the league.
64 or 65 (depending on how you count it) out of 346 NCAA D1 basketball teams make the tourney. That's 19% of the 'league'
If only 6-12 out of 120 NCAA D1 football teams make the playoffs, that's between 5-10% of the 'league' in the postseason. That has to be the lowest percentage in all of major team sports. That would make the college football playoffs a truly 'elite' club and make getting there all the more special. If entry into the post-season is based on regular season performance then how does that diminish the regular season?
PhoenixHawk
Well-Known Member
It's less a diminishment of the regular season, and more of a "how do you decide who goes" problem.
Top x teams in the polls makes the most sense, but this doesn't address any of the actual "bcs is unfair to non-bcs conferences!" arguments, since the voters can vote for anybody, and non-bcs teams will still whine about their team with a "great" record being voted lower than SEC #3.
Conference champs-only is a non-starter with the current D-1 setup. No one can seriously think that the sunbelt or MAC champ, regardless of ranking or record, should automatically belong in a playoff on an equal footing with a B10 or SEC team. The sheer possiblity of it would, in fact, devalue the entire D-1 playoff package, since the networks would reduce their bids knowing that half the teams in the playoff would represent small/nonexistant markets and would likely be unranked.
What would *really* happen is that the NCAA would be restructured, with the current BCS conferences forming a new "D-1a" division, and the non bcs-conferences being reordered into a "D-1b" division. This would be formalized on attendance and financial support, etc.
Remember, D-II teams like Northern Iowa currently play D-1 teams like Iowa, but no one is having a snit-fit over their lack of access to the BCS championship and Rose Bowl, are they? They should just formalize the insignificance of the non-bcs conferences in the same way. Do an 8 team playoff for current BCS teams, and a separate one for the non-bcs teams. Problem solved. Does that make you happy now?
rschneider
Well-Known Member
This is why I don't understand why some conferences or D1. The MAC, WAC, sunbelt, and C-USA are all missing out on bowl games and championship games. They should not be at a D1 level. Make another level in college football.
Bingo. That's the solution and it really does make sense. Even during the current D1 set-up there really are at least two or three classes within D1. A reorganization is probably exactly what college football needs.
Let's face it. College football at the highest levels is no different than Microsoft or AT&T. Instead of CEO's monopolizing it's college presidents, boosters, & bowl reps. When people say congress has better things to do they are partially correct. Congress IS supposed to break up monopolies and that's exactly what the BCS is. It's not some 'pure institution' or bastion of higher learning. It's a multi-billion dollar industry that does need to be re-organized. The 'for-profit' football programs should be taxed. They should be in a category separate from the Sun Belt eg schools.
SDK46
Well-Known Member
The BCS is the best model for 1A football? Really?
A playoff wouldn't solve anything? Really?
Wetzel is claptrap? Really?
It's apparent you haven't read and digested his arguments. Too bad.
What his book did for me was pull together various opinions, observations and the like I've had for several years regarding:
- Completely and non-researched invalid pre-season, and, weeks 1-3 polls, which set the momentum for the entire season,
- The sudden mitigation of momentum and the under-valuing of the post-season income potential due to the 4-5 week layoff after the regular season,
- The absurdity of the homerism of the human pollsters,
- The lack of knowledge the pollsters actually have regarding the teams and their subsequent futures they vote for,
- Computer polls which have been proven to be statistically flawed,
- Watered down SOS,
- The NCAA selling off it's best games basically to the bowl committees,
- The self-sustaining cartel called the BCS and its unabated/unabashed cronyism,
- Piling up easy pre-season teams for "wins",
- Undefeated teams being told "sorry, you're not under consideration for the #1 spot because 'we say so'" (would have happened to Iowa in 09)
I'll stop here. Yes, with all due respect, my name isn't baa-baa blacksheep, and come to think of it, I can think just fine on my feet and have observed this quagmire for many a decade. Again, what Wetzel's book did was tie it all together for me and the millions of other fans who continually scratch their heads year in and and year out why the current not-so-golden goose called the BCS is still alive.
Men's BB, Women's BB, Men's division II and III FB, wrestling, baseball, softball, etc., have a playoff...most everybody except 1A football. So they're all wrong and the 1A BCS model is correct? Really? Then why not institute a bogus bowl voting-system for the men's BB 'playoff'....heck I guess none of those other games needed to be played in March other than Kansas vs OSU.
I'm not pro-gov't involvement in sports, but in this case, I'm 100% for it. The ends will justify the means to get rid of the BCS. Good riddance. It's so fundamentally flawed it's laughable.
Decide it on the field.
A playoff wouldn't solve anything? Really?
Wetzel is claptrap? Really?
It's apparent you haven't read and digested his arguments. Too bad.
What his book did for me was pull together various opinions, observations and the like I've had for several years regarding:
- Completely and non-researched invalid pre-season, and, weeks 1-3 polls, which set the momentum for the entire season,
- The sudden mitigation of momentum and the under-valuing of the post-season income potential due to the 4-5 week layoff after the regular season,
- The absurdity of the homerism of the human pollsters,
- The lack of knowledge the pollsters actually have regarding the teams and their subsequent futures they vote for,
- Computer polls which have been proven to be statistically flawed,
- Watered down SOS,
- The NCAA selling off it's best games basically to the bowl committees,
- The self-sustaining cartel called the BCS and its unabated/unabashed cronyism,
- Piling up easy pre-season teams for "wins",
- Undefeated teams being told "sorry, you're not under consideration for the #1 spot because 'we say so'" (would have happened to Iowa in 09)
I'll stop here. Yes, with all due respect, my name isn't baa-baa blacksheep, and come to think of it, I can think just fine on my feet and have observed this quagmire for many a decade. Again, what Wetzel's book did was tie it all together for me and the millions of other fans who continually scratch their heads year in and and year out why the current not-so-golden goose called the BCS is still alive.
Men's BB, Women's BB, Men's division II and III FB, wrestling, baseball, softball, etc., have a playoff...most everybody except 1A football. So they're all wrong and the 1A BCS model is correct? Really? Then why not institute a bogus bowl voting-system for the men's BB 'playoff'....heck I guess none of those other games needed to be played in March other than Kansas vs OSU.
I'm not pro-gov't involvement in sports, but in this case, I'm 100% for it. The ends will justify the means to get rid of the BCS. Good riddance. It's so fundamentally flawed it's laughable.
Decide it on the field.
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SDK46
Well-Known Member
He couldn't be more off-base.
DwayneTwill
Well-Known Member
Yes he could.
PhoenixHawk
Well-Known Member
1. I didn't say it is the best model, I said that no one has the power to change it but university presidents, whose actual job requires them to choose the best model.
2. A big part of the reason there is no playoff is there is no agreed upon "best playoff model." Another big reason is that there is no demonstrated model that would be more profitable than the current system, which is very, very profitable. Any playoff system could be just as, or even more controversial than the current system, and any playoff system could lead to reduced revenue for individual teams or conferences by either marginalizing opportunities for some weaker schools (loss of bowls and possible reduced significance of games once they are "out" of contention), or reducing income for wealthier schools (spreading the wealth around).
3. There is no entity that can legally compel individual teams and conferences to have a playoff. Individual teams and conferences have the absolute right to determine their own schedules and media contracts. This is settled law straight from the Supreme Court.
4. Individual teams and conferences have the obligation to do what is in their own best interest. Rubes like Wetzel always miss this point. It is the best interest of Texas and the B10 to maximize their revenue at the expense of everyone else! It is their obligation to develop a competitive advantage so that they can increase their success on the field, and therefore generate more revenue. You cannot get more "free market" than that, folks.
5. Over 80% of cfb revenue is generated by the B10, B12, P12, and SEC. DII playoff, you say? Maybe when the Missouri Valley gets their first $2.8 billion Espn contract, or UNI gets it's own channel for $15 mill a year, we can start talking how DII's playoff is at all relevant.
6. Polls are nothing but opinion, and have been for a century. Bowls have sucked since 1911. This is, of course, why DII and DIII ball is sooo popular, and DI has withered and is dying. Polls provide a mammoth free marketing bonanza, provide huge amounts of material to debate, watch, and argue about, and tons of free publicity for the schools and game.
7. MBB is nothing compared to FB. The *highest* rated reg. season MBB game gets like a fourth of the viewers as an *average* network broadcast FB game. Its playoff history (since the 1930s) is also completely different, as its logistics. They can afford to play half the number of games in their playoff than a football team will play in an entire season 3 weeks. Try limiting NCAA MBB participants to the conference champs only, and see how popular March Madness remains.
8. If CFB truly "watered itself down" because of polls, then why does USC or Texas still schedule OSU, or LSU still play Oregon? How "watered down" would it become if you really only let conference champs into the post season? Guess what, Nebraska would have joined the WAC, not the B10, and Iowa would be better off playing the MAC. The fact is that the BCS conferences are getting tougher all the time, with few if any "gimmes" left. The fact that most teams find playing a single additional BCS team pre-conference is as much testimony to their increasing separtion in quality from unpopular conferences, as it is in their best interest to host as many home games as possible.
9. The only "quagmire" that exists is for people who have nothing better to do than manufacture non-existant problems for themselves to stew over, and for columnists trying to come up with a new controversy to sell books or articles. Millions and millions of casual and hardcore fans have no problem with the current system. The layoff between the season and post-season adds excitement and anticipation to the final games, and increases their value and market share by spreading them out over prime tv space in the holiday season.
I appreciate your effort, but there is nothing that you, Wetzel, or anyone else has said that can either compel or convince the college presidents that there is a better or more profitable way to handle DI's postseason at this time. Because if there was, they'd do it. That's their job.
SDK46
Well-Known Member
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
Good post. I love how people read Death to the BCS and then take the author's playoff plan as gospel even though it barely goes into any details and all his financial numbers are based off of very rough estimates. How would his playoff system solve the issues of biased preseason polls or uninformed coaches? They would still be picking at large teams. How would it solve the issue of the decreasing number of high profile non conference games? Teams still aren't going to go out and schedule tough non conference games, losses still hurt your at large chances.
SDK46
Well-Known Member
#1--It's a solid playoff plan. What details do you want? He advocates higher-seed gets home field for first two rounds. He advocates starting the week after the championship games. He advocates all the minor bowls can still exist. He advocates using the BCS-bowls as the semi's so they're not 'forgotten.' It would add three more games, max, for two teams, two for four teams and one 'extra' game for eight teams.
#2--What un-rough estimates do you want? He takes into account television revenue based upon current income streams. I don't remember all these details, but he's done his research. "Estimate" being rough or not, still projects MORE money than what is being made now via BCS nonsense.
#3--Huh? He advocates the polls can remain for gossip sake, but they would have no impact on the selection/seeding process for the playoffs. That would be accomplished through a Men's BB-like selection committee using solid and agreed-upon criteria....SOS, record, SOS of conference, opponent SOS, Quality Wins, etc etc etc....just like the basketball tournament. Again, polls would have zero impact on this. Yes, #17 is always feeling gyped. Such is life.
#4--SOS!! It's what's missing now in the good-ol-boy's club. (Ok,Ok, a watered-down SOS is supposedly used in the flawed computer poll).
#5--Again, yes they will with RPI or SOS looming. Every game would count, big time, just like it does now, just with a different mechanism at the end of the season. Being perfect no longer matters nearly as much as winning a majority of your tough games and scheduling good games throughout the season...just like men's BB, rather than ducking the arrows with three boring gimmee's each year (read: Ohio State)....which waters down the regular season.
People....please.....read-the-book!
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PhoenixHawk
Well-Known Member
Again with the Wetzel. Don't you understand that putting the CUSA, Sunbelt, and WAC champs on an equal footing with the B10 & SEC is an absolute non-starter? It will never happen. He claims that a playoff will generate all this money, yet the forced inclusion of small-market, poorly supported schools will automatically devalue the entire playoff package to any potential bidders. How about that for his "bad math." Going off last season, Troy, SMU, and Miami (Ohio) would have been in the playoffs. Talk about scheduling weak teams! Playing these guys preseason is what all the yahoos are complaining about in the first place, and no you want to give them and their 8-5 records an automatic to the playoffs!!! And you really wonder why anyone who is actually responsible for a school and its finances can't take him and his "plan" seriously. Wetzel's plan is a non-starter. A playoff will make more money, but we'll restrict how much more money by forcing in teams that nobody cares about or wants to watch, thus automatically devaluing the entire system before it even begins. Give me a freaking break.
SOS must mean something, so we'll give Air Force and their 107th ranked SOS an easy in by winning the Big Nobody Conference, but drop an 11-1 Big 10 #3 with a huge following and guaranteed ratings. (btw, SOS was tossed back when Oklahoma & Nebraska were found to be SOS frauds back in 2001-2002 because the whole B12 was a fraud) Guess what, the teams with the worst SOS are the ones you now want to give an automatic seat at the table every season, and a big piece of the $$$ that they played no actual part in earning! Sure, that is SO logical!
The polls are perfectly suited to punish a team that plays a weak schedule, and all things being equal, they still do (putting BEast champ below SEC champ.) Have you never watched sportscenter? By the time the BCS rankings come out, they spend half their time on SOS.
DI ball's popularity has skyrocketed since the creation of the BCS. Show me the Sunbelt conference TV deal. Show me how that MAC champ at 9-3 that can't fill its stadium is adding something to the playoff except an empty stomach looking for B10 money. 68 or something DI teams make it to the post season, which is over 50%. MBB has what, 19% get in? The lowest bowls would correlate with the lowest games for March Madness. Those bowl games and all their $ would almost certainly evaporate once it became the DI playoff or bust show.
Yes, Delaney loves the BCS. Delaney loves the BCS because it is the best deal for the B10, and the University of Iowa. That's why I love the BCS, and why I love Delaney. It's a boys-club that as a Hawkeye, I'm proud to be a member of, and as a Hawkeye supporter, I'm proud to have helped make happen.
SOS must mean something, so we'll give Air Force and their 107th ranked SOS an easy in by winning the Big Nobody Conference, but drop an 11-1 Big 10 #3 with a huge following and guaranteed ratings. (btw, SOS was tossed back when Oklahoma & Nebraska were found to be SOS frauds back in 2001-2002 because the whole B12 was a fraud) Guess what, the teams with the worst SOS are the ones you now want to give an automatic seat at the table every season, and a big piece of the $$$ that they played no actual part in earning! Sure, that is SO logical!
The polls are perfectly suited to punish a team that plays a weak schedule, and all things being equal, they still do (putting BEast champ below SEC champ.) Have you never watched sportscenter? By the time the BCS rankings come out, they spend half their time on SOS.
DI ball's popularity has skyrocketed since the creation of the BCS. Show me the Sunbelt conference TV deal. Show me how that MAC champ at 9-3 that can't fill its stadium is adding something to the playoff except an empty stomach looking for B10 money. 68 or something DI teams make it to the post season, which is over 50%. MBB has what, 19% get in? The lowest bowls would correlate with the lowest games for March Madness. Those bowl games and all their $ would almost certainly evaporate once it became the DI playoff or bust show.
Yes, Delaney loves the BCS. Delaney loves the BCS because it is the best deal for the B10, and the University of Iowa. That's why I love the BCS, and why I love Delaney. It's a boys-club that as a Hawkeye, I'm proud to be a member of, and as a Hawkeye supporter, I'm proud to have helped make happen.
