Cut Fran and staff some slack

S

SirJamaLot

Well-Known Member
Dana O'Neil: New Iowa coach Fran McCaffery is looking forward to rebuilding Hawkeyes program - ESPN
Sorry, but the Hawkeye Basketball program is not a quick fix, We are headed in the right direction, but Fran deserves the time needed to get this program back to respectibility. Ferentz took a long time in getting the football program to where it is now, I love everything Fran has done so far, he has put together a great staff and they will upgrade the talent, unfortunately it will not be fast enough to satisfy unrealistic Hawk fans.

Without any major injuries I predict 7-11 or 8-10 big ten and overall a 16-14 record and a NIT bid, which would be a step forward and help recruiting. Lets wait and see how the Hawks do with Paige,Woodbury, and Gessel.
 
+1...while I think the majority on this board share this same opinion there are some that view yesterday's news as proof that this coach and his staff are just more of the same. These are the ones that love to look on the negative side of things not only in this situation but probably everything else in their lives. Just please give it a rest for a while and find a different place to cut yourselves.
 
Ferentz didn't take us to the BCS in year 1 or 2, but you did see a pretty noticeable improvement in record and competetiveness each of the first few years.

1999: 1-11 (0-8)
2000: 3-9 (3-5) <-- Much more competetive losses, and wins were in conference
2001: 7-5 (4-4) <-- Bowl Win

As long as we see similar progress with the basketball program, where you can see the record improving noticeably, and the team being more competetive in defeat, I will remain patient (and optimistic).

It's too early to start throwing anybody under the bus. The new staff hasn't even coached a game yet.
 
SirJamaLot said:
Without any major injuries I predict 7-11 or 8-10 big ten and overall a 16-14 record and a NIT bid, which would be a step forward and help recruiting. Lets wait and see how the Hawks do with Paige,Woodbury, and Gessel.
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Whoa. You need to re-read the title of your own post, and do as you say. Cut the man some slack. Predicting an NIT bid this year, and 7 or 8 B10 wins?

Whew.

Who they gonna beat to get to 7 wins?
 
DeanO said:
+1...while I think the majority on this board share this same opinion there are some that view yesterday's news as proof that this coach and his staff are just more of the same. These are the ones that love to look on the negative side of things not only in this situation but probably everything else in their lives. Just please give it a rest for a while and find a different place to cut yourselves.
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I think yesterday was just an out of the blue reminder of how low the program has fallen and that there is a lot of work to be done...sort of like a snowstorm in the middle of summer.
 
If it takes until year three to get to the dance. Probably kiss Paige, Woodbury, and Gessel goodbye.

He needs to get to the dance next year. Or at the VERY LEAST he needs a really strong 2011 recruiting class. Basketball players don't go for the slow build method.

Football players come in thinking they will red-shirt a year and hopefully play when they are sophomores in year three. You also get to have these kids work out and build them into players. In basketball you don't have this luxury. You need kids that can play from day one.

Really is apples and oranges.

Now, is yesterday's news devastating? No. This kid is the right type of player for Wisky and the other programs. He can contribute early as a sub and develop into a strong player when he gets more physically developed. It was a good decision for him and probably best for Iowa.

Iowa basketball doesn't need these guys. They have May and McCabe to sub in at his likely position. They need guys that can start from day one.

Will probably have to go JUCO or FOREIGN, or adopt the Hoiberg, we will take your cancers and criminals and hope they have miraculously reformed method.
 
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JonDMiller said:
Whoa. You need to re-read the title of your own post, and do as you say. Cut the man some slack. Predicting an NIT bid this year, and 7 or 8 B10 wins?

Whew.

Who they gonna beat to get to 7 wins?
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This year, I'd be surprised if they win much more than 10-12 games or so. The first year, the record is what it is IMO, and it probably won't be pretty.

But in year 2, hopefully they can win 15-16. Year 3, maybe 18-20 and be an NIT or NCAA bubble team? That would be good progress, IMO. I'm just throwing out numbers, but my point is that steady improvement is all I'm really looking for the first 2-3 years.

I'd be shocked at an NCAA bid in year 2.
 
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1977Hawkeye said:
This year, I'd be surprised if they win much more than 10-12 games or so. The first year, the record is what it is IMO, and it probably won't be pretty.

But in year 2, hopefully they can win 15-16. Year 3, maybe 18-20 and be an NIT or NCAA bubble team? That would be good progress, IMO. I'm just throwing out numbers, but my point is that steady improvement is all I'm really looking for the first 2-3 years.
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I just want to see a competitive team again this year. Not necessarily competitive in terms of wins, but a team that at least competes with the other Big 10 teams. Middle Pack Big 10 teams like MN and ILL completely thrashed us last year, the games weren't even competitive for a minute. I would like to see Iowa make the other team play hard for 40 minutes to beat us next year. If we get that much it will be a marked improvement.
 
CAARHawk said:
If it takes until year three to get to the dance. Probably kiss Paige, Woodbury, and Gessel goodbye.

He needs to get to the dance next year. Or at the VERY LEAST he needs a really strong 2011 recruiting class. Basketball players don't go for the slow build method.

Football players come in thinking they will red-shirt a year and hopefully play when they are sophomores in year three. You also get to have these kids work out and build them into players. In basketball you don't have this luxury. You need kids that can play from day one.

Really is apples and oranges.

Now, is yesterday's news devastating? No. This kid is the right type of player for Wisky and the other programs. He can contribute early as a sub and develop into a strong player when he gets more physically developed. It was a good decision for him and probably best for Iowa.

Iowa basketball doesn't need these guys. They have May and McCabe to sub in at his likely position. They need guys that can start from day one.

Will probably have to go JUCO or FOREIGN, or adopt the Hoiberg, we will take your cancers and criminals and hope they have miraculously reformed method.
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You really need to cut the crap. Expecting Fran to make the NCAA tournament in his first year? Good grief. Get a grip.
 
With the fact that there is now NO DEPTH on the front line. I don't see how we can be competitive this coming year. It will be UGLY! That being said, it can't be that way next year. 2011 recruiting needs to bring in players that can contribute today.

The team needs to get to the dance, or at least make a decent NIT run. In fact, the NIT thing might in fact be better. If FM can put together a good 2011 class that can grow and get better as the year goes on, the excitement might build. If that could lead to a couple or few NIT games in Carver, it might help to show the 2012 guys what it is like when Iowa BBall is really rolling. Plus, it would be a good way to showcase the new facilities.
 
CAARHawk said:
If it takes until year three to get to the dance. Probably kiss Paige, Woodbury, and Gessel goodbye.
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If winning immediately is an issue for those guys, then its over and done with. They get to see one year of the McCaffery era before they decide, if they choose to commit in Nov of 2011. I guess they could wait for spring of 2012, but not as likely.
 
JRHawks5969 said:
You really need to cut the crap. Expecting Fran to make the NCAA tournament in his first year? Good grief. Get a grip.
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Um, that is second year. Reading comprehension, a lost art for America's youth.

First year is going to be brutal. But see my other post. I have adjusted to say NIT might actually be better in year two, particularly if they can get a couple of games in Carver.
 
JonDMiller said:
If winning immediately is an issue for those guys, then its over and done with. They get to see one year of the McCaffery era before they decide, if they choose to commit in Nov of 2011. I guess they could wait for spring of 2012, but not as likely.
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You think winning isn't an issue?

I agree about the November of 2011 issue. If these guys decide to sign in November of 2011, only way they come to Iowa is if FM pulls a radical rabbit out of the hat for 2011 recruiting.

But this is why I have been saying all along that the quick fix has to happen to get these guys. They are not signing on to be a part of a rebuilding effort. They will come to Iowa if they see themselves as the final pieces of the puzzle. That is it.

How can that happen?

Basabe and Marble develop into guys that will be on all B10 lists by year 2012. Don't have to be first team.

2011 brings three more guys that are true Big Ten talents, with at least one guy that does have first team potential.

Cully and Carlisle end up being a strong honorable mention type combo at the point.

Oh and yeah, the Iowa kids don't feel the need to rush and sign by November.

If they do, as I said at first, it will take an amazing effort in the 2011 recruiting.
 
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CAARHawk said:
But this is why I have been saying all along that the quick fix has to happen to get these guys. They are not signing on to be a part of a rebuilding effort. They will come to Iowa if they see themselves as the final pieces of the puzzle. That is it.
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Here is the deal; you can say until you are blue in the face that a quick fix of winning right now needs to happen. You can want it.

But it's NOT going to happen. The die is cast for the 2010-2011 season; they have who they are going to have, and that will be a bottom three team in this league.

Fran IS going to have to recruit those players and sell them on being a part of rebuilding the Iowa program; he will have nothing else to sell them other than the new practice facility, but most of the good schools have those.

They won;t have a chance to see themselves as the final pieces of the puzzle, because the puzzle will have just been taken out of the box. Sure, they can see whom Iowa gets in this next class, but they won't have seen them play at the college level before the early signing period in Nov 2011.
 
JonDMiller said:
Whoa. You need to re-read the title of your own post, and do as you say. Cut the man some slack. Predicting an NIT bid this year, and 7 or 8 B10 wins?

Whew.

Who they gonna beat to get to 7 wins?
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Im just trying to stay positive, With the NCAA tourney expanding the NIT is not what it used to be, we return everyone but Fuller and hopefully Baasbe can replace him, I think Marble and Cartwright will surprise people, the cupboard isnt bare plus Fran is a proven winner for 15 years, his teams almost always overachieve, I didnt say they would get to the dance or finish with a winning big ten record but 7 wins in the big ten is possible, and the nonconference sets up for hopefully 8-9 wins. Call it unrealistic thinking or not but Im sick and tired of hearing about all the negatives surrounding the hawkeye basketball program, I have full confidence that Fran and staff will turn this losing atmosphere into a winning one just like Ferentz did!
 
SirJamaLot said:
Im just trying to stay positive, With the NCAA tourney expanding the NIT is not what it used to be, we return everyone but Fuller and hopefully Baasbe can replace him, I think Marble and Cartwright will surprise people, the cupboard isnt bare plus Fran is a proven winner for 15 years, his teams almost always overachieve, I didnt say they would get to the dance or finish with a winning big ten record but 7 wins in the big ten is possible, and the nonconference sets up for hopefully 8-9 wins. Call it unrealistic thinking or not but Im sick and tired of hearing about all the negatives surrounding the hawkeye basketball program, I have full confidence that Fran and staff will turn this losing atmosphere into a winning one just like Ferentz did!
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Iowa will be better than Penn State. IMO, that is it. I think there are seven NCAA teams (MSU, OSU, MN, PU, ILL, WIS, NW) and Michigan is a better team than Iowa, as will be a healthy Indiana team that was hammered by injuries last year.

MSU and PU could win a national title. OSU is prob Sweet 16 level. NW might have their best team of all time. ILL and MN are capable of winning a first round game. Wisconsin is Wisconsin.

I don't see 5 wins, much less seven. Sorry to say.
 
SirJamaLot said:
his teams almost always overachieve,
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This is NOT exactly true. He has won by bringing in kids that end up being freshmen of the year and eventual CPOY's. He has done well in the first round of the tournament with guys that are not as good as the teams he is playing. But these guys are still the best players in his conference.

It is really more accurate to consider him the guy who finds that one player that other teams miss out on (Kenny Hasbrouk) and takes advantage of their mistake. Then, after he gets that one guy early, he kills the rest of the league in recruiting and brings in guys that are just better than the other teams in the league.
 
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CAARHawk said:
It is really more accurate to consider him the guy who that one player that other teams miss out on and takes advantage of their mistakes. Then, after he gets that one guy early, he kills the rest of the league in recruiting and brings in guys that are just better than the other teams in the league.
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He had better have a few more chapters in his playbook, because that won;t be happening in the Big Ten. The collection of coaches right now is as good as it has ever been.
 
I realize we're exchanging views on a message board but I really think people are overreacting in alot of ways and also underestimating in others.
BB is a team sport and many of histories greatest successes were not from the most talented team but rather the players that played the best as a team. I really believe that Duke has at times been a poster child for this.
Iowa has not brought in MJ and Bron but we have more bodies that can at least contribute and IMO have a overall better athletic makeup than the last three years for sure. Put that together with a new exciting coach and staff that can make what your doing fun and create a team atmosphere and you never know what levels they can achieve.
I fully believe a team of average players that play well together and have a strong will for success can come out of this group. They wil not likely win the NC but I have a strong feeling they will not embarass us either.
I'd really like to see alot of people chill out and let them get some time and work and a few games under their belt before we all start whining like a spoiled brat kid.
 
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