I'm a little more optimistic. The Cubs bullpen spent way too much time on the field last year. They needed a guy who could eat up innings. Garza pitched over 200 innings last year with 3 complete games and posted an ERA under 4 in the best hitting division in baseball. Not to mention an ALCS MVP award. I think it's fair to say he is at least above average. He could turn into a legit #1 in the NL. Time will tell if this is a good deal or not based on his performance and how well the prospects do in Tampa.
Cubs Trade for Garza
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I'm a little more optimistic. The Cubs bullpen spent way too much time on the field last year. They needed a guy who could eat up innings. Garza pitched over 200 innings last year with 3 complete games and posted an ERA under 4 in the best hitting division in baseball. Not to mention an ALCS MVP award. I think it's fair to say he is at least above average. He could turn into a legit #1 in the NL. Time will tell if this is a good deal or not based on his performance and how well the prospects do in Tampa.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
You shouldn't be.
goods10
Well-Known Member
It is a proven commodity year in and year out. Its a big reason, not the only reason, why we rarely have losing seasons like the Cubs do.
hawkfarmer
Well-Known Member
Wrong. Barney is going to be utility player at best. DeWitt will play 2B. Guyer is 24 but he played college ball so has only been in minors for a few years. Lee, is young and is supposed to be a great glove and the bat is there too. Archer, I don't mind that, we have some good young pitchers, and the reason I don't like this is cause I wanted to see Cashner in the rotation, now we may have to wait a few more years. I would say Guyer is still a hot prospect and we would probably get to see him this year some if we didn't have that waste of millions in left and right. Castro would be a better 2B if you could find a shorstop with a glove (Lee). This all boils down to giving up some good prospects for 1 pitcher that is B class.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
Guyer has had one good year in the minors and that was in AA. I don't think he's much more than bench player granted it was last year. Maybe a Hoffpauir type.
WhiteThunder
Well-Known Member
Garza is only 27 and under team control for the next three years. At that point the Cubs can decide if they want to give him the long contract extension. He has been pitching in the best division in baseball against the Yanks and the Sawx. Now he gets to feast on the Pirates and Astros.
While Archer is a loss, I don't see the others as being a big deal. The Cubs already have a SS, so Lee is expendable. You have to give up something to get something.
This trade alone isn't going to turn around the team's fortune for next year, but to say it's a short term fix is silly.
While Archer is a loss, I don't see the others as being a big deal. The Cubs already have a SS, so Lee is expendable. You have to give up something to get something.
This trade alone isn't going to turn around the team's fortune for next year, but to say it's a short term fix is silly.
Ahawkalypse
Well-Known Member
You really think that the cubs are worried about putting people in the seats??!?!?! They have had NO problem selling seats even in the years they are bad-mediocre.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
This is a decent deal. You can NEVER, and I mean NEVER have too much good pitching. The guys eats innings, and will be a God send to the bullpen.
Who cares if the prospects turn out to be decent, you can never tell, it's a crap shoot......... Especially pitching prospects. Odds say the players traded will never be stars at all....maybe contributors, but that is it. Plus none of them given up are seen as "can't miss" guys at all. Trade em, let someone else wait 4 years for them to contribute......
Who cares if the prospects turn out to be decent, you can never tell, it's a crap shoot......... Especially pitching prospects. Odds say the players traded will never be stars at all....maybe contributors, but that is it. Plus none of them given up are seen as "can't miss" guys at all. Trade em, let someone else wait 4 years for them to contribute......
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
Are you kidding me about prospects? Who gives a crap about a few prospects? Any general manager worth his salt doesn't pass on a proven young pitcher to hoard a few maybes!
bcl20
Well-Known Member
Ummm....the best franchises in baseball do.
ShadasRevenge
Well-Known Member
I don't understand the hand-wringing about this deal. The guys the Cubs gave up a young pitching prospect who has the chance to be good, a guy who at best would be a 4th outfielder, a talented shortstop who has a long way to go and who is all ready blocked by someone named Starlin Castro, and a novice catcher who has been in the Cubs farm system for 10 years - seriously, 10 years. He's only one year younger than Geovany Soto.
People can say that the Cubs gave up too much, but when is the last time the Cubs gave up any prospects who ended up amounting to anything? Korey Patterson and Felix Pie were both minor league studs who didn't amount to anything in the majors and ended up getting shipped to the Orioles. The only bad trade Hendry has made was when he gave up three pitchers for Juan Pierre.
This isn't some reckless move by a crazy GM who wants to win now. This is what you do with talent in the farm system. You either bring them up like the Cubs did with Cashner, Colvin, and Castro, or you trade them for pieces you need. Garza is a proven 27 year old pitcher who has posted an ERA under 4.00 for three years in a row in the AL East; and playing for Tampa he has to go up against three of the best offenses in baseball. If he can do that in the AL East, imagine what he can do in the NL Central. Besides all that, he was the LCS MVP in 2008, winning games 3 and 7 in that series. Against the Rangers last year, Joe Maddon didn't start him in Game 2 because he wanted him on the mound for Game 3 in Arlington.
This doesn't make the Cubs favorites in the division by any means; right now that probably goes to St. Louis or Cincinnati. That being said, it does give them a rotation that compares very well with the other top teams in the division.
People can say that the Cubs gave up too much, but when is the last time the Cubs gave up any prospects who ended up amounting to anything? Korey Patterson and Felix Pie were both minor league studs who didn't amount to anything in the majors and ended up getting shipped to the Orioles. The only bad trade Hendry has made was when he gave up three pitchers for Juan Pierre.
This isn't some reckless move by a crazy GM who wants to win now. This is what you do with talent in the farm system. You either bring them up like the Cubs did with Cashner, Colvin, and Castro, or you trade them for pieces you need. Garza is a proven 27 year old pitcher who has posted an ERA under 4.00 for three years in a row in the AL East; and playing for Tampa he has to go up against three of the best offenses in baseball. If he can do that in the AL East, imagine what he can do in the NL Central. Besides all that, he was the LCS MVP in 2008, winning games 3 and 7 in that series. Against the Rangers last year, Joe Maddon didn't start him in Game 2 because he wanted him on the mound for Game 3 in Arlington.
This doesn't make the Cubs favorites in the division by any means; right now that probably goes to St. Louis or Cincinnati. That being said, it does give them a rotation that compares very well with the other top teams in the division.
busabus114
Well-Known Member
The Cubs are bad...this trade helps but they are still really bad
busabus114
Well-Known Member
This line of thought makes sense if you are a contender
+1. Wow gave up the farm. Go JH.
hawkeyehat
Well-Known Member
Don't get to worked up, this is a 2 for 1 deal. IF Archer develops control he could be good but he's been inconsistent and walked a BUNCH of people at AA last year. Lee could hurt as he seemed to have very nice potential but he was a few years away at best, though his bat may never be enough to be an every day SS. We've got Castro and hopefully he continues to get better. Plus, we still have a good number of MI prospects to take over 2B in a couple years.
Our pitching in the system has solid depth. Trey McNutt looks like a ML player and Chris Carpenter does as well though he'll probably be in the BP if he can't stay healthy.
Our pitching in the system has solid depth. Trey McNutt looks like a ML player and Chris Carpenter does as well though he'll probably be in the BP if he can't stay healthy.
goods10
Well-Known Member
Hey look....we agree on something.
woodyk1
Well-Known Member
Agreed with the analysis on Garza. I am a little worried about his temperament (sp?), but I think it is a good chance to take. Maybe Big Z takes him under his wing!
He's only 27 and I believe under team control for 3 more years. I don't think the minor leaguers they gave up were all that much and I agree that you either bring up youngsters to see what they have or use them as assets to trade. I think the change to the NL could be good for a guy from the AL East!
I also agree that the Cubs are not the favorites in the division. But, 2 new Tampa Rays (Pena and Garza) gives them hope, right? The Cubs need a lot of bounce back years from veterans as well.
Iowafarmgirl
Banned
Corey Paterson, Felix Pie, Hee-Sop Choi...gotta hoard those can't miss prospects. It is stupid to trade such potential for a proven pitcher. AA success always=Big league success.
bcl20
Well-Known Member
That's not what I said.
