CTE Facts and Fiction

deanvogs

Well-Known Member
I ran across this interesting article by a Forensic pathologist and neuropathologist. I am linking the article because I have always felt that the picture being painted about CTE was pretty broad and sweeping with little true research into it.

https://sports.yahoo.com/im-brain-scientist-let-son-play-football-135727314.html

This sort of thing reminds me of how the media and medical community rushes to tell us that we shouldn't eat eggs, that they are more dangerous than cigarettes stuff. Well the studies were flawed, and the more research that is put into it, the mitigating factors have more to do with Cholesterol than do eggs themselves. To read a good example of how we understand so much more about cholesterol and diets now than we did in the 70's and 80's read this piece: http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/06/518152471/unscrambling-the-nutrition-science-on-eggs

Now I'm not saying there isn't some relation between CTE and football, but I think the overreaction right now is strong with very little supporting evidence. Especially when talking about youth football, and that is the same opinion that the forensic pathologist came to as well.

People are coming away from the constant media barrage with the belief that concussions are the sole and direct cause of CTE, most or all football players have CTE, and CTE has led football players to become violent, commit suicide or develop dementia.

I had the same impression before I decided to look a little deeper. But when I dove into the published literature regarding CTE, I discovered the scientific evidence to support the media’s narrative was lacking; in fact, I found bodies of evidence to the contrary and a whole other side to the science that is largely ignored.

I’m not alone. A number of members of the medical and research communities are also voicing serious doubts about the current state of the science linking concussion and CTE.
 
I agree to a certain extent. I think there is a false equivalency being made between the danger of football vs. other activities. I mean what's the danger difference in danger from CTE from playing football to soccer to simply riding a bike? That's what we don't know, and really that's what we can't know, because the only way to research CTE is via a harvested brain, and we just can't accurately compare the brains of football players vs. people in the general population because there is just no control on their behavior.

I'm also very dubious about the link between increased off the field violence and CTE. The guys who had crappier equipment and played a much more vicious game 30-40 years ago didn't end up this violent that I know about. I wonder what the effect of various painkillers that guys have on this behavior that they may not have taken in the past as well.

That said, stories like that of Zac Easter just make me incredibly wary of football and I'm not pushing the sport at all with my kids.
 
I agree to a certain extent. I think there is a false equivalency being made between the danger of football vs. other activities. I mean what's the danger difference in danger from CTE from playing football to soccer to simply riding a bike? That's what we don't know, and really that's what we can't know, because the only way to research CTE is via a harvested brain, and we just can't accurately compare the brains of football players vs. people in the general population because there is just no control on their behavior.

I'm also very dubious about the link between increased off the field violence and CTE. The guys who had crappier equipment and played a much more vicious game 30-40 years ago didn't end up this violent that I know about. I wonder what the effect of various painkillers that guys have on this behavior that they may not have taken in the past as well.

That said, stories like that of Zac Easter just make me incredibly wary of football and I'm not pushing the sport at all with my kids.

Great points.

My big thing is what % of kids who play youth football or HS football actually have any issues at all? A very, very small % ever go onto play further than that, and NFL players are the extreme example.
 

This is a good Ted talk I listened to on this a while ago, with a stanford researcher who played football there as well, and who I don't think as some of the implicit anti-football bias present in some other people.
 
There are just too many factors to rule out. PED's are pretty prevalent in the NFL and football world. Has anybody tried to link CTE to PED or steroid users? Maybe there is a connection there. Who knows. Seems both started at the same time, the CTE and steroid era's. So, if football is one of the main sports associated with CTE and PED's are quite common among football players, maybe there is a connection. I mean it's a complete crap shoot and may not be anything, but my point is that it could be something else than just brain damage from getting hit.
 
I liken football to smoking.

There are millions of people that smoked for years that never, ever developed lung cancer or emphysema. While some smoked for just a short time, or never at all except thru second hand smoke and got lung cancer. But is smoking dangerous? Absolutely. Are the odds pretty substantial that you'll get lung cancer? Yep.

Football is the same way. You'll have people who played the game for 20 years that show no effects on the brain whatsoever. And you'll have some, like the local high school football player, who got it before he even graduated high school. But at the end of the day, is football a dangerous sport? Absolutely. Are the odds pretty substantial that by playing it you will develop some sort of permanent brain injury? Yep.
 
I liken football to smoking.

There are millions of people that smoked for years that never, ever developed lung cancer or emphysema. While some smoked for just a short time, or never at all except thru second hand smoke and got lung cancer. But is smoking dangerous? Absolutely. Are the odds pretty substantial that you'll get lung cancer? Yep.

Football is the same way. You'll have people who played the game for 20 years that show no effects on the brain whatsoever. And you'll have some, like the local high school football player, who got it before he even graduated high school. But at the end of the day, is football a dangerous sport? Absolutely. Are the odds pretty substantial that by playing it you will develop some sort of permanent brain injury? Yep.

This is the perception that people have now. As I pointed it out, I likened it to Eggs were more dangerous than cigarettes that was being perpetuated years ago. Now that we know more about diet and cholesterol we understand that there isn't nearly the linkage between a particular food (eggs) and high cholesterol.
 
I liken football to smoking.

There are millions of people that smoked for years that never, ever developed lung cancer or emphysema. While some smoked for just a short time, or never at all except thru second hand smoke and got lung cancer. But is smoking dangerous? Absolutely. Are the odds pretty substantial that you'll get lung cancer? Yep.

Football is the same way. You'll have people who played the game for 20 years that show no effects on the brain whatsoever. And you'll have some, like the local high school football player, who got it before he even graduated high school. But at the end of the day, is football a dangerous sport? Absolutely. Are the odds pretty substantial that by playing it you will develop some sort of permanent brain injury? Yep.


That's actually a pretty decent analogy.
 
As BryceC said above, we really won't know anything until we have a better idea of the prevelence of CTE among the general population. There has been enormous selection bias in the brains that have been donated to study this condition. I know it is difficult to secure random brains for study, but as important as that question is, I can't believe no one has looked at it yet.

As an aside, 2 college football players died from injuries sustained on the field this past week:

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...tern-state-mustangs-dies-injury-suffered-game
 
This is the perception that people have now. As I pointed it out, I likened it to Eggs were more dangerous than cigarettes that was being perpetuated years ago. Now that we know more about diet and cholesterol we understand that there isn't nearly the linkage between a particular food (eggs) and high cholesterol.

That's why I used "smoking" as my analogy rather than eggs. Because I think it's only going to get worse for football, rather than better.....just like it did for cigarettes. I'm not saying that because I'm some football-hating metro....on the contrary I love football and have my whole life.

But with society as it is and where it's trending....there's not going to be some "ah-ha" moment like with your egg example where people discover that football (eggs) aren't as bad for you as originally thought. It's going to end up with parents who let their kids play football being shunned/shamed/vilified...similar to how smokers ended up being shunned/shamed/vilified. And you can't use the money argument here either because, at it's peak, smoking was 10 times the revenue generator that football is....
 
Haha, I guess that one just stands out to me. Huge overreaction about Eggs and cholesterol, and of course we find out later that panic wasn't even necessary.

Yeah, society is quick to accept the latest "scientific discovery". We forget that whoever made the discovery is just a person. Maybe they're wrong? Maybe their boss pressured them to finish early, or had an agenda? Maybe humans are organic beings and we're all different, so general "this is good / that's bad" statements don't apply?

Regardless of the accuracy of the CTE stuff, though, if nothing else its convincing some that "maybe getting hit in the head a bunch of times is bad". That's a good thing.
 
Haha, I guess that one just stands out to me. Huge overreaction about Eggs and cholesterol, and of course we find out later that panic wasn't even necessary.


I still wait an hour after I eat before swimming.

Remember that hoax that affected virtually every kid in the 1980's.
 
This is the perception that people have now. As I pointed it out, I likened it to Eggs were more dangerous than cigarettes that was being perpetuated years ago. Now that we know more about diet and cholesterol we understand that there isn't nearly the linkage between a particular food (eggs) and high cholesterol.

I am old enough to remember, and I am fairly certain no one ever said eggs were more dangerous than cigarettes. If you think they did, I would ask that you prove it to me. I think your statement is an over exaggeration for effect, either intentionally or mistakenly.
 
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I am old enough to remember, and I Am fairly certain no one ever said eggs were more dangerous than cigarettes. If you think they did, I would ask that you prove it to me. I think your statement is an over exaggeration for effect, either intentionally or mistakenly.


The latest was just in 2012.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...s-bad-for-your-arteries-as-cigarettes/261091/

http://healthland.time.com/2012/08/16/is-eating-eggs-really-as-bad-for-your-heart-as-smoking/
 
I am old enough to remember, and I Am fairly certain no one ever said eggs were more dangerous than cigarettes. If you think they did, I would ask that you prove it to me. I think your statement is an over exaggeration for effect, either intentionally or mistakenly.


Did he hit a nerve? You own an egg farm?
 
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