Couple other coaches saying Bueckers better than Clark.

[Bigtenchamp]

I mean its possible.. but some of these people really get a stick up their ass about Clark.

Yeah Clark does take some bad shots... I saw Michael Jordan take a lot of bad shots... Luka Doncic takes a lot of bad shots.. .Kobe Bryant might have been the king of taking bad shots.

So a weak pot shot.

 

[PCHawk]

I mean its possible.. but some of these people really get a stick up their ass about Clark.

Yeah Clark does take some bad shots... I saw Michael Jordan take a lot of bad shots... Luka Doncic takes a lot of bad shots.. .Kobe Bryant might have been the king of taking bad shots.

So a weak pot shot.

I think if they switched teams, Clark would still be an All American but she wouldn't be national player of the year and no one would even know who she is. Bueckers would make Iowa a top 10 team and very possibly be an All American, but no one would know who she is either.

 

[Fryowa]

JuJu Watkins is the one who's probably better. If she stays healthy for 4 years and USC goes deep in March she's gonna go cruising by CC's records.

 

[PCHawk]

Now that I think about it, if they switched teams, Clark would be the best player on UCONN so she would more than likely win national player of the year there too. She would probably average 20 points and 12-15 assists.

 

[PCHawk]

JuJu Watkins is the one who's probably better. If she stays healthy for 4 years and USC goes deep in March she's gonna go cruising by CC's records.

Especially since Clark missed some games with a shortened covid schedule. I could see USC having enough talent around her that she doesn't have the numbers Clark has this year tho. Clark would shoot less, therefore score less with more talent around her.

 

[Fryowa]

Especially since Clark missed some games with a shortened covid schedule. I could see USC having enough talent around her that she doesn't have the numbers Clark has this year tho. Clark would shoot less, therefore score less with more talent around her.

Different player types so it's tough to compare, but I don't think there's any question that her record is in pretty serious jeopardy if Watkins stays healthy.

Freshman years...Watkins is still playing obviously:

 

[CP87]

Different player types so it's tough to compare, but I don't think there's any question that her record is in pretty serious jeopardy if Watkins stays healthy.

Freshman years...Watkins is still playing obviously:

View attachment 10779

Watkins is a beast, and she will definitely have a shot at this record. I still think it is unlikely for the following reasons:

Clark has a system entirely designed around her creating shots. I am sure Iowa would love to be more balanced, but Clark's scoring skill-level so greatly exceeds everyone else on the team, it would be detrimental to try to force more balance. Will Watkins' team have as great an imbalance, and will she have a coaching staff as willing to go all-in on highlighting a single player as Bluder et. al.?

Clark's usage has gone up each year, but the spike in usage rate and shot volume from her junior year to her senior year has been outrageous. Even as her usage was climbing through her sophomore and junior years, her efficiency (for a guard) was elite and improving. As her usage has skyrocketed this year, her efficiency has taken a little hit, but it is still elite. Will JuJu be able to match that volume without a huge dip in efficiency? Most cannot, Clark is a bit of a unicorn here.

And to that last point, Clark's ability to shoot at high efficiency from 30 feet and in, even off the dribble, even with a step-back, has been the key to her getting up so many shots while still maintaining an elite efficiency. That is the skill that unlocks her game that no one else has demonstrated, and the reason it is so hard to completely lock her down. It is possible that JuJu will develop a similarly unique, unguardable skill like this, but I think it is far from guaranteed.

So if I had to put money on will or won't JuJu break Clark's scoring record, I would bet won't, and I would be pretty confident.

edit: Looking a little closer at the stats Fry posted, look at how much less efficient Watkins have been this year compared to Clark's freshman year (57.5 eFG% vs. 45.1 eFG%)! Iowa has been #1 in the nation in eFG% and TS% each of the last 4 years, and has been #2, #5, #2, and #1 in offensive rating over that span. USC is currently 81st in eFG%, 71st in TS%, and they are 27th in offensive rating. Can they crank up JuJu's usage rate and still maintain an acceptable efficiency? I doubt it.

 

[CP87]

I mean its possible.. but some of these people really get a stick up their ass about Clark.

Yeah Clark does take some bad shots... I saw Michael Jordan take a lot of bad shots... Luka Doncic takes a lot of bad shots.. .Kobe Bryant might have been the king of taking bad shots.

So a weak pot shot.

Bueckers is a better defender, and probably better at driving and finishing. Clark is the superior shooter and passer. They are both awesome, and they both contribute immensely to their team's winning.

If Bueckers didn't have the injury history AND she was coming out in this year's draft (she is returning to UCONN), it would be a legitimate debate over who goes #1.

 

[Fryowa]

Watkins is a beast, and she will definitely have a shot at this record. I still think it is unlikely for the following reasons:

Clark has a system entirely designed around her creating shots. I am sure Iowa would love to be more balanced, but Clark's scoring skill-level so greatly exceeds everyone else on the team, it would be detrimental to try to force more balance. Will Watkins' team have as great an imbalance, and will she have a coaching staff as willing to go all-in on highlighting a single player as Bluder et. al.?

Clark's usage has gone up each year, but the spike in usage rate and shot volume from her junior year to her senior year has been outrageous. Even as her usage was climbing through her sophomore and junior years, her efficiency (for a guard) was elite and improving. As her usage has skyrocketed this year, her efficiency has taken a little hit, but it is still elite. Will JuJu be able to match that volume without a huge dip in efficiency? Most cannot, Clark is a bit of a unicorn here.

And to that last point, Clark's ability to shoot at high efficiency from 30 feet and in, even off the dribble, even with a step-back, has been the key to her getting up so many shots while still maintaining an elite efficiency. That is the skill that unlocks her game that no one else has demonstrated, and the reason it is so hard to completely lock her down. It is possible that JuJu will develop a similarly unique, unguardable skill like this, but I think it is far from guaranteed.

So if I had to put money on will or won't JuJu break Clark's scoring record, I would bet won't, and I would be pretty confident.

I disagree. Watkins shoots the ball even more than Clark, it's incredible. Clark isn't an overly impressive shooter in terms of FG%, and Watkins is worse (if that's even the right word), but she takes an obscene amount of shots. Doesn't matter much what your percentage is when you shoot that kind of volume. I think the key is staying healthy and she'll get it as long as USC makes the tournament the next three years.

 

[CP87]

I disagree. Watkins shoots the ball even more than Clark, it's incredible. Clark isn't an overly impressive shooter in terms of FG%, and Watkins is worse (if that's even the right word), but she takes an obscene amount of shots. Doesn't matter much what your percentage is when you shoot that kind of volume. I think the key is staying healthy and she'll get it as long as USC makes the tournament the next three years.

Okay, we'll make it a gentleman's bet.

 

[#1DieHardHawk]

If Watkins plays a full 4 years, she definitely has a legitimate shot at the scoring record, but I would put any amount of money that she won't come close to the combination of points, assists and rebounds. That total number record will stand for many years.

Volume scorers come and go, but what about the total game? That's the most impressive number for Caitlin, IMO.

 

[dagdaj]

I disagree. Watkins shoots the ball even more than Clark, it's incredible. Clark isn't an overly impressive shooter in terms of FG%, and Watkins is worse (if that's even the right word), but she takes an obscene amount of shots. Doesn't matter much what your percentage is when you shoot that kind of volume. I think the key is staying healthy and she'll get it as long as USC makes the tournament the next three years.

Well then, we can let Sheryl Swoopes weigh in on the 40 shots per game thing. We all know how, you know, that makes you wonder if a record really is a record.

I think it's 50-50 she breaks Clark's record. If she does? It won't affect me one bit and no reason not to applaud her. But much like Barry Bonds' run (even if you take away the steroid questions) was subdued in comparison to McGwire/Sosa. There's just not enough air in the room. There will never be another fervor like this. I could say fewer people will care or even notice. But, that's probably wrong. And it's wrong because more people will be paying attention. Because, of well...Clark. But, I suspect there will be far less "mainstream" attention. Just the way of things.

It's why I don't care if she, or anyone else breaks it. Or why not winning a championship doesn't matter. At the end of the day, it's still just a game. We've had these 4 years of awesomeness. For me, I admit, I've only followed the team (I never followed any basketball) for only 3 years. And only two years obsessively where I'm either watching every available game, or following live scoring on my phone for the one's I didn't have access to. Again, it's like the McGwire thing. Yah, it was all roided up and a bit hollow now. But at the time? Man it was glorious. Just like this. That's what I remember.

My kid, who's a sophomore in IC....lamented his freshman year about the football team. And I told him, there's going to be a moment at Iowa during his four years where he will experience delirium. It'll either be #1/#2 Iowa/Michigan. Or where everyone is talking about the Hokey Pokey and the "Dancing Fools from Iowa". Or it'll be a guy on the basketball court NOT breaking a record. Or Brad Bank's legit shot at joining Nile Kinnick. In this case, he got Caitlin Clark. Almost an NC in a major sport. And just a wild, wild ride.

I was there for the Dancing Fools, the campus shooting, and the setting of the record that a guy later DIDN'T break. And I have such great memories and fondness (not about the shooting) of feeling like I had some part in it. Even though I had zilch to do with any of it. It felt like such a small place was somehow briefly at the center of the world. Which is why after 30 years I'm still wearing black and gold and posting on internet forums like this.

 

[thedukeofearl]

Heresy, I say, Heresy

 

[NCHawker]

The drama on twitter is amaizing. Some people just have to find a flaw in a great player, others lose their minds if anyone says anything remotley short of praise for their player.

crazy.

Its that mentality that fuels posters who publish lists of anything with rankings. Its pure click bait. - best hotdog at a stadum, best fan base, best atamosphere, best helmet. blah blah blah The latest was a list of 'best walk ons" ...and poeple bite and bitch and fuss about someone's ranking.

 

[CP87]

The drama on twitter is amaizing. Some people just have to find a flaw in a great player, others lose their minds if anyone says anything remotley short of praise for their player.

crazy.

Its that mentality that fuels posters who publish lists of anything with rankings. Its pure click bait. - best hotdog at a stadum, best fan base, best atamosphere, best helmet. blah blah blah The latest was a list of 'best walk ons" ...and poeple bite and bitch and fuss about someone's ranking.

Clark is a 99.9th percentile shooter, a 99.9th percentile passer, a 95th percentile driver, and 99.9th percentile as a showman. Yet, people also expect her to be 99th percentile as a leader, 99th percentile in sportsmanship, 99th percentile as a defender...just wholly unrealistic expectations.

Society's inability to appreciate greatness without trying to tear it down is very frustrating, and social media cranks it up a couple orders of magnitude.

 

[dagdaj]

The drama on twitter is amaizing. Some people just have to find a flaw in a great player, others lose their minds if anyone says anything remotley short of praise for their player.

crazy.

Its that mentality that fuels posters who publish lists of anything with rankings. Its pure click bait. - best hotdog at a stadum, best fan base, best atamosphere, best helmet. blah blah blah The latest was a list of 'best walk ons" ...and poeple bite and bitch and fuss about someone's ranking.

It's so common in our society to tear down the successful. We get some sort of dopamine hit from it.

It's particularly prevalent in sports. I worked in sports radio. I cannot stand the "hot take" sports radio host that always goes with "Shohei Ohtani is overrated." Or "Tiger Woods isn't worth $40 million" (back when he signed with Nike).

It's cheap. Shows lack of imagination and inability to be genuinely compelling. And it gets the monkeys to dance...call in and throw poo.

It's perfect for social media. This is the perfect example. Start an account. Post an AI written story that is simply includes nothing more than the headline of "Uconn coach says his player is the best." Or "Internet is up in arms saying NCAA jobbed WV in favor of Clark". And that's the entirety of the content. There's no effort to flesh it out. Come up with an argument for or against. Not even a whiff of evaluation. Post it and the monkeys dance..and throw digital poo at each other. Clark monkeys jump in to defend. Clark hater monkeys respond. They all take the bait. And the only thing that happens is profit for the clickbaiter.

This is so much of the feed on FB. It's what Twitter has been for years. We love to argue and there is such dopamine in the idea of trying prove your idea is superior. And so many people are profiting off of it.

I've said for a long time, when social media starts to look like message boards of the 2000s, we can go ahead and set the Doomsday Clock forward to 11:59:59. When people are acting like that with their real name attached instead of a username?

 

[dagdaj]

Clark is a 99.9th percentile shooter, a 99.9th percentile passer, a 95th percentile driver, and 99.9th percentile as a showman. Yet, people also expect her to be 99th percentile as a leader, 99th percentile in sportsmanship, 99th percentile as a defender...just wholly unrealistic expectations.

Society's inability to appreciate greatness without trying to tear it down is very frustrating, and social media cranks it up a couple orders of magnitude.

My favorite response to "she can't play defense" (despite leading the #2 team in the nation in steals with an awfully respectable 1.8 per game for a high scoring point guard) is "yeah, neither could Tom Brady"

 

[CP87]

My favorite response to "she can't play defense" (despite leading the #2 team in the nation in steals with an awfully respectable 1.8 per game for a high scoring point guard) is "yeah, neither could Tom Brady"

She is an above-average on-ball defender when she is locked in, but she expends so much energy on offense that she does have plenty lapses on defense. Also, she is a pretty undisciplined off-ball defender...she just kind of free-lances, which can work out (you noted the steals), but can also put her teammates in some tough spots.

In the WNBA where she doesn't have to carry so much load on offense, she will an okay defender with the potential to develop into a +defender.

 

[PCHawk]

She is an above-average on-ball defender when she is locked in, but she expends so much energy on offense that she does have plenty lapses on defense. Also, she is a pretty undisciplined off-ball defender...she just kind of free-lances, which can work out (you noted the steals), but can also put her teammates in some tough spots.

In the WNBA where she doesn't have to carry so much load on offense, she will an okay defender with the potential to develop into a +defender.

How about the defense she was playing during stretches of the west Virginia game? I'd never seen her defend like that. It was pretty damn impressive. Like you said tho, you can't defend like she did during those stretches for 38 minutes per game and do what she does on offense. It's humanly impossible to exert that much energy for that long.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

Juju Watkins a bit bigger and better athlete. I hear some talking heads saying she is better.

At this point I just don't see it.. she shoots a lot but really isn't a good shooter, less skilled then Clark in most categories.

What makes Clark special is the amount of points she generates for herself and others around her.

If you look at advanced metrics in this category Clark blows everyone else away.