Consistently good recruiting

NCHawker

NCHawker

Well-Known Member
Just wondering what some of you experts think. Seems to me that this staff recruits in fits and starts. And as a result the program rises and falls like boats in the tide. Following2009 or 2010, why couldn't the team get better? (Imagine the gaul of someone asking such a question!) . The inevitable answer is - well we lost -[name] and [name] and [name] who are now in the fing NFL !

so?

Why can't they replace those guys?

Seems they can only recruit really well once in awhile.

They get guys and then its like they go back to sleep and stop landing top talent (that will get you 7 wins).

Then they lose recruits for a large number of reasons, and they don't replace those guys either (that will get you a 4-8 season)

Is it that Iowa does not have enough wealthy boosters to move the market and can only be counted on once ever 3 to 4 years? What happens if those people turn on KF. Does the faucet get turned off and recruiting suddenly gets more difficult and we find a program that remains at 3-5 wins a year? I know I've rambled off topic a bit but feel free to run with that one too.
 
A lot of it is self-perpetuating (go 6-6, and you will not likely land a top 40 class at Iowa). However, when thinking it over, I realized that our 2009 class, one of the two being faulted for our current shortcomings, has not only been in the system four years, but also came on the heels of a season in which we were ranked.

The biggest problem, though, I think is sheer volume of quality. I don't subscribe to the viewpoint that Iowa landing any 4* kid is a minor miracle, but we have a very small margin for error in development, because (unlike Texas and others) we don't have an abundance of 4* kids, nor do we have 3* kids down to the bottom of our roster.

I think that answers your question about building on success and the 2010 team as well. I always will believe that the 2010 Iowa Hawkeyes should have been no worse than 9-3, and that there were severe coaching deficiencies. However, I think that team may have been effectively 'Kirk-proofed' if Bruce Davis, Tarp, and Nielsen had all been healthy at Linebacker OR (and this is where recruiting plays in) if we had a bunch of 3*-type athletes in the wings. Arizona and Wisconsin were two gaffe-laden games when the team was reasonably healthy (probably still lose), but there's no way we lose to NW and Minnesota, and I'm tempted to call OSU a toss-up if we weren't so stripped at LB or we didn't have such a thin margin.
 
Also, I think what we've seen Wisconsin do is change the game a little bit. What positions does Iowa recruit well on offense? RB (reasonably), FB, TE, and O-Line (especially). Wisconsin is not under the illusion that they're going to have a balanced offense. Their formations like 'Diamond' (5 OL, 2 TE (or 1 TE & 1 WR), 2 FB, RB) and 'Barge' (7 OL [!], 2 TE, 2 RB, 0 QB) fit their recruiting realities. They may be SOL come Rose Bowl time against the nation's #1 rush defense, but they steamroll MAC teams and the bottom half of our conference like you wouldn't believe. That alone gets you to 9-3 these days (and honestly, I would be happy if Iowa could just do that).
 
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You are correct that really since 2005 Kirk's recruiting is in a peak and valley pattern. And it seems, logically so, that he gets the best results on the field when those higher rated classes become upperclassmen. What Kirk needs to try to do is limit the depth of the valley we go into when the team itself is not doing so well on the field. Here is a breakdown of the last few classes and the stars that went with these kids. I am not taking any kind of attrition into these numbers just final star ratings for those that were recruited by the coaching staff.

2008: 12 **/13 ***
2009: 13 **/5 ***/2 ****
2010: 5 **/13 ***/4 ****
2011: 5 **/17 ***/ 4 ****
2012: 5 **/15 ***/4 ****
2013: 1 **/13 ***/1 **** (as it stands today)

First take away is this, even with the last couple of crappy years, our recruiting seems to be better now than it was the last time Iowa's program was on a downhill slide. We had 25 ** recruits in two classes in the late 2000's, those are your current upperclassmen. The leftovers from the 2008 recruiting class were the seniors in 2012 and the rest of the 2009 recruiting class that is still around will be seniors next year. The good thing is, out of the next four classes, Iowa has only pulled in 16 ** but is overflowing with mid range *** talent. Now, I know what people say, stars don't matter but when it comes to evaluating recruits it's the only system we have.

Remember, they don't rank kids *. So ** kids are technically the lowest rated kids available. Does that mean they are worthless, absolutely not. But it's definitely harder to find athletes that can contribute at a D1 level in the ** pool. *** kids go either way. They are those that have some good features but lack in others. Some might be well skilled but lack physical features, some may have the physical numbers but lack skill. Iowa right now is feasting on those guys and as it stands, they are our future. With our 4-8 campaign this season it'll be interesting to see what impact it has on recruiting for 2014. Most coaches say that play on the field doesn't usually impact the current recruiting class it impacts the following one. As of now, going 8-5 and 7-6 hasn't seemed to hurt us as much as seasons relative to those did in the mid and late 2000's. So that is a victory as of now. If 2014's class starts filling up with a bunch of ** kids again like 08 and 09, then we know the cycle is going to start repeating itself.
 
if Iowa played in the Leaders division instead of the legend maybe they wouldn't get beat up and would be able contend for the BT Championship at 7-5, 4-4 in BT play
face it Wisconsin played in the weakest side of the BT this year and a few more years, they even beat a overrated Nebraska team, that gave up over 1300 yards in 2 games,
 
redhawk55 said:
if Iowa played in the Leaders division instead of the legend maybe they wouldn't get beat up and would be able contend for the BT Championship at 7-5, 4-4 in BT play
face it Wisconsin played in the weakest side of the BT this year and a few more years, they even beat a overrated Nebraska team, that gave up over 1300 yards in 2 games,
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Nebraska had terrible games on defense against UCLA, Ohio State, and Wisconsin. They shut Iowa down (and do NOT blame the wind).

Iowa still goes 4-8 this year if they're in the Leaders. Probably worse, unless they got both MSU and Minnesota in cross-division games.
 
Hawkeye11en1 said:
Some of you have this belief that we should be a national power. I find it amusing.
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If you're referring to my first post in this thread, I was simply stating that we don't recruit at (i.e.) Texas level. Fact. I wasn't suggesting it could be remedied.
 
Cover3 said:
Also, I think what we've seen Wisconsin do is change the game a little bit. What positions does Iowa recruit well on offense? RB (reasonably), FB, TE, and O-Line (especially). Wisconsin is not under the illusion that they're going to have a balanced offense. Their formations like 'Diamond' (5 OL, 2 TE (or 1 TE & 1 WR), 2 FB, RB) and 'Barge' (7 OL [!], 2 TE, 2 FB, 2 RB, 0 QB) fit their recruiting realities. They may be SOL come Rose Bowl time against the nation's #1 rush defense, but they steamroll MAC teams and the bottom half of our conference like you wouldn't believe. That alone gets you to 9-3 these days (and honestly, I would be happy if Iowa could just do that).
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This is good stuff. Bielema played to his strengths and recruited strength. He has/had an identity at Wisky.

I think Iowa should be in or sniffing around the top 25 4 out of every 5 years if not at 9 out of 10 years.

KF proved he can have the hawks in the top 10. I think if KF has some great recruiters in the new staff and if KF takes some remedial college football coaching/game management classes then the hawks should be in the upper third of the big 10 and top 25 nationally.

Dynasty NO or contending for national championships NO but occasional top 10 and maybe a Big10 championship every 6-8 years YES and a once in a decade run at a national champ YES
 
I don't really have a problem with how Kirk recruits. He could maybe do a little better but for the most part I think we are right where we should expect to be. If it wasn't for our problems on Dline and at running back, this year wouldn't have looked so bad. One poster said we have no margin for error and that's true. But that also means we can't afford to have the wrong people on the field.
 
uihawk82 said:
This is good stuff. Bielema played to his strengths and recruited strength. He has/had an identity at Wisky.

I think Iowa should be in or sniffing around the top 25 4 out of every 5 years if not at 9 out of 10 years.

KF proved he can have the hawks in the top 10. I think if KF has some great recruiters in the new staff and if KF takes some remedial college football coaching/game management classes then the hawks should be in the upper third of the big 10 and top 25 nationally.

Dynasty NO or contending for national championships NO but occasional top 10 and maybe a Big10 championship every 6-8 years YES and a once in a decade run at a national champ YES
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I agree that this is where they are capable of being with great coaching. I just think that Kirk is doing neither good nor bad at recruiting.
We have a coach that is a so so recruiter, a great developer, and a horrible game day coach. Far from irreplaceable.
 
uihawk82 said:
This is good stuff. Bielema played to his strengths and recruited strength. He has/had an identity at Wisky.

I think Iowa should be in or sniffing around the top 25 4 out of every 5 years if not at 9 out of 10 years.

KF proved he can have the hawks in the top 10. I think if KF has some great recruiters in the new staff and if KF takes some remedial college football coaching/game management classes then the hawks should be in the upper third of the big 10 and top 25 nationally.

Dynasty NO or contending for national championships NO but occasional top 10 and maybe a Big10 championship every 6-8 years YES and a once in a decade run at a national champ YES
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lets see 8-0 in the conference in 02
11-2 run at a BTT and a possible NT if Stanzi does no get hurt and Tressel at OSU does not lie to keep player elegible manly Prior and 4 top 10 finishes, that sounds exactly what you want,
coaching changes "check"
improved recruiting "check"
what more is there. UNLESS its no competing for the NT EVERY YEAR
 
redhawk55 said:
lets see 8-0 in the conference in 02
11-2 run at a BTT and a possible NT if Stanzi does no get hurt and Tressel at OSU does not lie to keep player elegible manly Prior and 4 top 10 finishes, that sounds exactly what you want,
coaching changes "check"
improved recruiting "check"
what more is there. UNLESS its no competing for the NT EVERY YEAR
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Well, except for the part (which I think was his main point) about being in or around the Top 25 nine out of ten years. That may sound overly demanding, but if we beat 2-10 ISU and 4-8 Western Michigan in 2007, that team is 8-4 and probably receiving votes. That's how low the bar is. With Ferentz, we've had four years of pretty strong national relevance, I'll even give you 2008 for five, but nine years (seven with the customary free pass for 1999-2000) of total irrelevance. This thread is about consistency, no?
 
Need to go back a few years to the core decision. Bowlsby didn't see the importance of recruiting skills with his hire of Ferentz. Alvarez, on the other hand did with the Bielema hire. Two programs with similar traits at the time now owning two different looking trend lines in performance. Alvarez will again look for a good recruiter as a key skill set.


"Former UW quarterback Darrell Bevell, the Seattle Seahawks offensive coordinator, has spoken of returning to UW, but he's been in the NFL since 2000 and seems happy there. Another former Alvarez player, Joe Rudolph, is Chryst's offensive coordinator at Pitt, though he has only one year of experience in that capacity. Still, Alvarez wanted a proven recruiter when he hired Bielema and Rudolph is a terrific recruiter."

- Tom Oates / Sport's Writer for the Wisconsin Journal 12/4

P.S. Bet we'll see another good recruiter announced as the next head coach at Wisconsin.....maybe even Paul Chryst.
 
I honestly think we can look at Wisconsin's recent success and see a bit of a flaw within KF's system. This was talked about in another thread that BB really targeted recruiting for Wisconsin's strengths, the o-line, rb, and te so they can run over the opponents they SHOULD run over on offense. When you flip this into an Iowa perspective I kinda wonder why we don't see the same results.. Granted, the last 4-5 years the running back position has been an on going train wreck.

I know Iowa develops players into NFL talent, but that talent is usually scattered and doesn't align to make a truly great team most years. Add in injuries/graduations/transfers and things really start to stack up against the system. I think anytime a player leaves early or gets injured it hurts Iowa the most because it takes years to develop a new beast usually.

I will say, the next couple of years look to be pretty promising though. Barring injuries, the developmental/recruiting process is stacking up a bit so we should see some pretty good teams.
 
Perhaps the biggest difference in Iowa - Wisconsin is the fact that the AD in Madison was a successful football coach and knows the game and knows what it takes to win. GB on the other hand has a different set of strengths.
 
NCHawker said:
Perhaps the biggest difference in Iowa - Wisconsin is the fact that the AD in Madison was a successful football coach and knows the game and knows what it takes to win. GB on the other hand has a different set of strengths.
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Does anyone have knowledge of KF's ability to sell recruits on the Iowa program? Can KF go into a recruits house and sell Iowa, sell the school, the academics, etc.

Why doesnt KF want his coordinators out recruiting? I would think the coordinators would be the next big salesmen?

Woods, B Ferentz and other coaches along with maybe recruiting services can ID talent but you need top mgmt to go in and close the deal.

Where is KF and GD and PP on this spectrum?
 
uihawk82 said:
Does anyone have knowledge of KF's ability to sell recruits on the Iowa program? Can KF go into a recruits house and sell Iowa, sell the school, the academics, etc.

Why doesnt KF want his coordinators out recruiting? I would think the coordinators would be the next big salesmen?

Woods, B Ferentz and other coaches along with maybe recruiting services can ID talent but you need top mgmt to go in and close the deal.

Where is KF and GD and PP on this spectrum?
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I think Greg Davis out on the recruiting trail in Texas would help but seriously after this past season he needs to focus on how he is going to make this offensive scheme work at Iowa. 20 hour days, everyday until kick off next season if he has to do it to get an offense that can average more than 20 points a game. Whatever it takes, this offense really needs to get going or next season is going to be worse considering the schedule gets alot harder next season.
 
interesting.........GD stated in a video that He recruits in no pre-defined area. Wondered if he had a non-compete in Texas (just wondered thats all).
 
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