College Football attrition rates at other schools

[Igothawked]

This part of your post is very telling. Only Florida and Georgia did not oversign, but Florida also went through a coaching change in this time. Not to mention these teams still win. Georgia has had some problems losing players, but they tend to still win as well.
I don't think the issue is so much general attirtion rates, we all know why these schools have more attrition than Iowa, at least its fairly obvious. The issue is concentrated attrition at two key positions at Iowa, RB and the d-line.
Anybody who argues that Iowa is losing more players than these other schools is wrong. I get that. But what Iowa is doing is losing lots of players at only two positions. Why? Don't know, your guess is as good as mine.
The other question is, if these schools all have so many players leave, why do they not have 11 walk ons on their two deeps? The obvious answer would be oversigning. I think these stats for the B1G would be more appropriate. Also the Michigan numbers include two coaching changes, so that is not a fair comparison either.

 

[Igothawked]

Texas has already lost 12 this year with more to come & the same guy said he thought OU had lost 8! Said he would expect it to be a high number at most schools. The guys on the Texas rivals boards are some of the sharpest, most even keeled and reasonable posters on the web.

For the cat above who said some teams have more talent and therefore are more prepared, that’s a convoluted theory. Clearly after 12 losses the last 2 years Tehas wasn’t and it’s not as simple as how many, its who and how many at one position. The Rbers actually haven’t hurt us as bad as the Lber injuries and D-line defections.

The point remains Iowa isn’t unusual in the least…..as much as it pains the Doctors in the house.

You kind of contradict yourself in your post and I have seen your numerous posts about how this happens at every school. Yes attrition happens at every school. But then you also say the general number is not the issue but how many and at what position.
You cannot defend Iowa's attrition by saying that other teams lose more players then Iowa and then say all that matters is what position and how many at that position leave when that is precisiely the problem at Iowa. The vast majority of Iowa's attrition is at RB and d-line and there has been a lot of players to leave at those positions. To say there is not a problem at Iowa with players leaving at those positions because attrition happens everywhere is not right.

 

[cmhawks99]

This part of your post is very telling. Only Florida and Georgia did not oversign, but Florida also went through a coaching change in this time. Not to mention these teams still win. Georgia has had some problems losing players, but they tend to still win as well.
I don't think the issue is so much general attirtion rates, we all know why these schools have more attrition than Iowa, at least its fairly obvious. The issue is concentrated attrition at two key positions at Iowa, RB and the d-line.
Anybody who argues that Iowa is losing more players than these other schools is wrong. I get that. But what Iowa is doing is losing lots of players at only two positions. Why? Don't know, your guess is as good as mine.
The other question is, if these schools all have so many players leave, why do they not have 11 walk ons on their two deeps? The obvious answer would be oversigning. I think these stats for the B1G would be more appropriate. Also the Michigan numbers include two coaching changes, so that is not a fair comparison either.

Number 1 we don't know how many walk-ons they have on their 2 deeps and while it seems relevant it would need to be followed with the next logical question of how many walk-ons do they have in the NFL to show how good their walk-on programs may or may not be, in order to establish how relevant THAT info may be.

Furthermore we didn't have a lot of walk-ons on the field & those that we did weren't out of place so honestly its just like most of the info used on here. Misplaced and misused. The 2-deeps are meaningless and we all know it......

I mean honestly and when saying this I don't know if you and I agree much or not, but I am so tired of us rationalizing "why" this info needs to be even MORE negative than it already seems. If someone rationalizes something with a positive spin then...well they are an apologist!

It is honestly just sickening.......I am a football junkie, its really my only thing. I also don't have my head in the sand and i remember things well. I knew without looking this is happening EVERYWHERE.....CONSTANTLY!!!!!
Some days even WEEKS all you read in the yahoo NCAAF headlines is transfer this or legal that.

TEXAS HAS 12 this year.......OU has 8, yet all we can worry about is little ole us. By Lordy our coaches are messing this up....really, then it seems its getting messed up everywhere.

 

[cmhawks99]

You kind of contradict yourself in your post and I have seen your numerous posts about how this happens at every school. Yes attrition happens at every school. But then you also say the general number is not the issue but how many and at what position.
You cannot defend Iowa's attrition by saying that other teams lose more players then Iowa and then say all that matters is what position and how many at that position leave when that is precisiely the problem at Iowa. The vast majority of Iowa's attrition is at RB and d-line and there has been a lot of players to leave at those positions. To say there is not a problem at Iowa with players leaving at those positions because attrition happens everywhere is not right.

So your telling me if Georgia lose 3 RBers since spring (and it may be more) and 5 or 6 other guys they are fine but “IOWA†has something wrong with them.

OR Texas loses 12 with more to go so says a Texas fan and OU loses 8 total THIS YEAR……its Iowa with the problem. Well okay then…

I didn’t contradict anything. I was very clear in what I was saying. I unlike the proletariat try to be very honest and fair in my assessments. Its sucks and it has become a competitive advantage problem for Iowa for sure, but if your implication is somehow it is OUR fault, then you’re just another one I wouldn’t want assessing my business.

 

[HawkinGoferLand]

I think these stats for the B1G would be more appropriate. Also the Michigan numbers include two coaching changes, so that is not a fair comparison either.

I can't access www.oversigning.com from work for some reason, but go there and look at the B10 schools. IIRC (it's been many months ago I was on that site) most of them rarely sign even 25 kids in a class. In the SEC 25 is the starting point for nearly all schools except Vandy. Miami, Bama, Arkansas among others and getting over 30 commitments. In the B10, schools like NW routinely sign 20 or less. Iowa is in the low 20s with some teens.

I included Mich because I happened upon it looking up CFB attrition. I tried to find Wisc, MSU, USC, OR and some others but didn't readily find anything.

 

[Igothawked]

So your telling me if Georgia lose 3 RBers since spring (and it may be more) and 5 or 6 other guys they are fine but “IOWA†has something wrong with them.

OR Texas loses 12 with more to go so says a Texas fan and OU loses 8 total THIS YEAR……its Iowa with the problem. Well okay then…

I didn’t contradict anything. I was very clear in what I was saying. I unlike the proletariat try to be very honest and fair in my assessments. Its sucks and it has become a competitive advantage problem for Iowa for sure, but if your implication is somehow it is OUR fault, then you’re just another one I wouldn’t want assessing my business.

I don't really get what your point is here. Also, Georgia has had a problem at RB this year and I willfully admitted that in my 1st post, but did they lose a couple last year? And the year before?

I work in corporate America. And if my corpration had a specific department (RB or D-line for example's sake) where voluntary turnover was at least 50% per year and the rest of the company's voluntary turnover was in the 10-20%, you don't think my company would be looking at that specific department to see what is going on? Is it they just have brought in poor employees? Or is management a problem? Or is the job a problem? Or have all the employees just made bad decision and chose to move on? It may partially be bad luck but certainly it seems as though something else would be driving employees/players away.

I believe, Iowa has a problem with attrition at RB and D-line. Not with attrition as a whole, but strictly at those two positions. Can we agree on that? I think they have pin pointed the problem at d-line and that was Coack Kaz. He is gone. Hopefully we will see the attrition at d-line slow down. Now as for RB, is it Erb? I don't know and I do agree with you that we are not entitled to know or don't deserve to know. But it sure would be nice to see someone do something about it.

And we really don't see eye to eye on much on here. And as you touched on, I believe that has more to do with how we rationalize things. You do come across as an Kirk apologist, like it or not you do. Status quo is fine, some players made some bad decisions at least we don't lose as many players as Alabama, LSU, or Florida or some other school. The regular positive spin of everything is where we differ. I don't see everything as positive and sometimes things need to be fixed. I get tired of the same 'ol same 'ol. I see Iowa as having a problem keeping there players on campus at RB and Dline, they (not us) need to pinpoint the problem and attempt to rectify it. I feel like they are trying this on d-line, now they need to try something at RB. Do I want KF fired? No I don't, not at this time. But he definately needs to get things straightened around in the very near future.
To me, just because other schools lose more players on the whole than Iowa still doesn't mean there is no problem at Iowa at these two positions.

 

[Bigtenchamp]

Really hard to connect any of those numbers with Iowa's issues - Many of those schools like stated in the thread are overrecruited.

Also those numbers include players leaving for the draft and also what about coaching changes at those schools.

Not sure I can make any sense of those.

 

[cmhawks99]

I don't really get what your point is here. Also, Georgia has had a problem at RB this year and I willfully admitted that in my 1st post, but did they lose a couple last year? And the year before?

I work in corporate America. And if my corpration had a specific department (RB or D-line for example's sake) where voluntary turnover was at least 50% per year and the rest of the company's voluntary turnover was in the 10-20%, you don't think my company would be looking at that specific department to see what is going on? Is it they just have brought in poor employees? Or is management a problem? Or is the job a problem? Or have all the employees just made bad decision and chose to move on? It may partially be bad luck but certainly it seems as though something else would be driving employees/players away.

I believe, Iowa has a problem with attrition at RB and D-line. Not with attrition as a whole, but strictly at those two positions. Can we agree on that? I think they have pin pointed the problem at d-line and that was Coack Kaz. He is gone. Hopefully we will see the attrition at d-line slow down. Now as for RB, is it Erb? I don't know and I do agree with you that we are not entitled to know or don't deserve to know. But it sure would be nice to see someone do something about it.

And we really don't see eye to eye on much on here. And as you touched on, I believe that has more to do with how we rationalize things. You do come across as an Kirk apologist, like it or not you do. Status quo is fine, some players made some bad decisions at least we don't lose as many players as Alabama, LSU, or Florida or some other school. The regular positive spin of everything is where we differ. I don't see everything as positive and sometimes things need to be fixed. I get tired of the same 'ol same 'ol. I see Iowa as having a problem keeping there players on campus at RB and Dline, they (not us) need to pinpoint the problem and attempt to rectify it. I feel like they are trying this on d-line, now they need to try something at RB. Do I want KF fired? No I don't, not at this time. But he definately needs to get things straightened around in the very near future.
To me, just because other schools lose more players on the whole than Iowa still doesn't mean there is no problem at Iowa at these two positions.

Well I’ll give you kudos for the response and the effort to explain your thoughts. Many, many, many in your camp when presented with stuff they c can’t debate just run off and start another thread…..

I’ll clear up WHY I think and talk like I do. See I’m in the car industry and for those who don’t know the industry and its nuances; it’s truly a remarkable field. The better psychologist, psychiatrist, mind reader, actor, debater, lawyer and people manager you are the more successful you are. Now I’ve got 15 years in and 12 as a manger and I’m decent at what I do. I’ve also got 41 years of life experiences, running hard, drinking hard, lying, cheating stealing, judging people, calling them out and looking down my nose at them. And I now have 12 years of living with Christ and knowing that part (you know the part that gets on a message board and rants) isn’t productive in the real world or the work place period!

I’ve worked with so many managers, sales people and owners and seen so many customers.....I KNOW better than most, that more often than not you do the best you can and it still isn’t enuff. This could be way longer than this, but I’ll cut it short with this. There is little chance you are more competitive than me, more driven to excellence than me or more prone to being critical of myself….(that’s the key) than me. With that said I give others a very wide path (with the exception of loud, hyper-critical message board posters) for their failings because “I” get that it is rarely as it seems from my point of view. You clearly aren’t like that and as a result we will likely never agree.

I don’t like anonymous critics who scream and yell and point their fingers at those in the arena while they nestle up behind their computers. See Brother, I’m far from an apologist and I’m far from being okay with 7 wins, but see….. I get it. Me lambasting people from behind a key board says a lot more about me, than it does those I’m lambasting….

So there you have it…..that’s me and how I think.

 

[Billso]

Well I’ll give you kudos for the response and the effort to explain your thoughts. Many, many, many in your camp when presented with stuff they c can’t debate just run off and start another thread…..

I’ll clear up WHY I think and talk like I do. See I’m in the car industry and for those who don’t know the industry and its nuances; it’s truly a remarkable field. The better psychologist, psychiatrist, mind reader, actor, debater, lawyer and people manager you are the more successful you are. Now I’ve got 15 years in and 12 as a manger and I’m decent at what I do. I’ve also got 41 years of life experiences, running hard, drinking hard, lying, cheating stealing, judging people, calling them out and looking down my nose at them. And I now have 12 years of living with Christ and knowing that part (you know the part that gets on a message board and rants) isn’t productive in the real world or the work place period!

I’ve worked with so many managers, sales people and owners and seen so many customers I KNOW better than most more often than not you do the best you can and it still isn’t enuff. This could be way longer than this, but I’ll cut it short with this. There is little chance you are more competitive than me, more driven to excellence than me or more prone to being critical of myself….(that’s the key) than me. With that said I give others a very wide path (with the exception of loud, hyper-critical message board posters) for their failings because “I†get hat it is rarely as it seems from my point of view. You clearly aren’t like that and as a result we will likely never agree.

I don’t like anonymous critics who scream and yell and point their fingers at those in the arena while they nestle up behind their computers. See Bother, I’m far from an apologist and I’m far from being okay with 7 wins, but see….. I get it. Me lambasting people from behind a key board says a lot more about me, than it does those I’m lambasting….

So there you have it…..that’s me and how I think.

Sorry, don't follow... could you run that by me again?

 

[cmhawks99]

Really hard to connect any of those numbers with Iowa's issues - Many of those schools like stated in the thread are overrecruited.

Also those numbers include players leaving for the draft and also what about coaching changes at those schools.

Not sure I can make any sense of those.

Not sure about those initial numbers but the 12 Texas lost this year and the 8 Oklahoma lost most certainly don't include early entries. I’m not surprised you are trying hard to rationalize them away though……

For the record, talk about hard to connect. You and the usual ilk are somehow trying to suggest 5 RBers, all who had extenuating legal or behind the scenes issues were somehow caused by the coaches. Let that sink in for a minute. If you were at a party talking to real people not Iowa football mopes and you suggested that, they’d look at you like you were an idiot.

That’s the Internet we now live with………….you’re the same everywhere. If you were in real life someone would laugh at you for being foolish and you’d zip up like a tent.

 

[clicheusername3]

Well I’ll give you kudos for the response and the effort to explain your thoughts. Many, many, many in your camp when presented with stuff they c can’t debate just run off and start another thread…..

I’ll clear up WHY I think and talk like I do. See I’m in the car industry and for those who don’t know the industry and its nuances; it’s truly a remarkable field. The better psychologist, psychiatrist, mind reader, actor, debater, lawyer and people manager you are the more successful you are. Now I’ve got 15 years in and 12 as a manger and I’m decent at what I do. I’ve also got 41 years of life experiences, running hard, drinking hard, lying, cheating stealing, judging people, calling them out and looking down my nose at them. And I now have 12 years of living with Christ and knowing that part (you know the part that gets on a message board and rants) isn’t productive in the real world or the work place period!

I’ve worked with so many managers, sales people and owners and seen so many customers I KNOW better than most more often than not you do the best you can and it still isn’t enuff. This could be way longer than this, but I’ll cut it short with this. There is little chance you are more competitive than me, more driven to excellence than me or more prone to being critical of myself….(that’s the key) than me. With that said I give others a very wide path (with the exception of loud, hyper-critical message board posters) for their failings because “I†get hat it is rarely as it seems from my point of view. You clearly aren’t like that and as a result we will likely never agree.

I don’t like anonymous critics who scream and yell and point their fingers at those in the arena while they nestle up behind their computers. See Bother, I’m far from an apologist and I’m far from being okay with 7 wins, but see….. I get it. Me lambasting people from behind a key board says a lot more about me, than it does those I’m lambasting….

So there you have it…..that’s me and how I think.

Even this 19th century man is bored by this:

 

[iloveyoularrystation]

I think the bigger issue is the difference in how the different teams use their attrition. SEC schools who oversign do so because they use oversigning as a farm system. Because they get away with doing it they get away with having reserves that prove themselves and take the place of others who get cut or leave for various reasons. It bolsters them and they are not effected at all by kids leaving. At Iowa a kid who leaves is a guy who in two years was projected to be starting after working on special teams, spot duty, and visiting Doyle University. When they leave from here it hurts dramatically because its a kid who two years from now should be starting or at least in the rotation. So when 5 guys leave in two years at the same position-ummmmmmmmm! Well to be captain DUH, "that's not good!"

 

[cmhawks99]

Fair enuff.....but look at the context and his insistence that I or others are apologists. It was relevant and an explanation as too why I am how I am…..I am so stinking tired of negative, whiny, finger pointers and we chase them out of our office as soon as we can. They are the same everywhere and you want to talk about what’s a problem in the world…..its them.


They do it under the guise, Of “wantingâ€￾ more. Wouldn’t you love to take a peek at their own lives….

Even this 19th century man is bored by this:

 

[clicheusername3]

Fair enuff.....but look at the context and his insistence that I or others are apologists. It was relevant and an explanation as too why I am how I am…..I am so stinking tired of negative, whiny, finger pointers and we chase them out of our office as soon as we can. They are the same everywhere and you want to talk about what’s a problem in the world…..its them.


They do it under the guise, Of “wantingâ€￾ more. Wouldn’t you love to take a peek at their own lives….

What are you talking about?

 

[cmhawks99]

Where in the world do you get these pictures........

What are you talking about?

 

[MoseSchrute]

That list doesn't help us too much because most of those are SEC schools. We need to compare BIG numbers.

 

[Igothawked]

Fair enuff.....but look at the context and his insistence that I or others are apologists. It was relevant and an explanation as too why I am how I am…..I am so stinking tired of negative, whiny, finger pointers and we chase them out of our office as soon as we can. They are the same everywhere and you want to talk about what’s a problem in the world…..its them.


They do it under the guise, Of “wantingâ€￾ more. Wouldn’t you love to take a peek at their own lives….

I don't know if you are talking about me, but if so you are way off. I don't see how anything I said can be construed as negative, whiny, or finger pointing.
I brought up something I perceive to be a problem and explained my position. I did not blame KF, did not blame players or anything. No name calling, no cheap shots, nothing. Explained my position and opinions.
Take it for what you will, but your over generalization of people with differing opinions than yours is seems a bit over the top and unfair.

 

[KansasHawkeye]

Texas has already lost 12 this year with more to come & the same guy said he thought OU had lost 8! Said he would expect it to be a high number at most schools. The guys on the Texas rivals boards are some of the sharpest, most even keeled and reasonable posters on the web. For the cat above who said some teams have more talent and therefore are more prepared, that�s a convoluted theory. Clearly after 12 losses the last 2 years Tehas wasn�t and it�s not as simple as how many, its who and how many at one position. The Rbers actually haven�t hurt us as bad as the Lber injuries and D-line defections. The point remains Iowa isn�t unusual in the least�..as much as it pains the Doctors in the house.

With reference to Texas, Mack Brown does less with more than any other coach in America.

 

[cmhawks99]

I don't know if you are talking about me, but if so you are way off. I don't see how anything I said can be construed as negative, whiny, or finger pointing.
I brought up something I perceive to be a problem and explained my position. I did not blame KF, did not blame players or anything. No name calling, no cheap shots, nothing. Explained my position and opinions.
Take it for what you will, but your over generalization of people with differing opinions than yours is seems a bit over the top and unfair.

Maybe.......I can be over the top.

 

[tm3308]

no one wants to hear this. this is strictly a problem at the university of iowa and nowhere else. KF needs to be fired

If you really think this is apples to apples, then I don't know what to tell you. Those schools have exceptionally high attrition rates because they oversign recruits by the boatload. I'd bet that very few schools who recruit as Iowa does (meaning they don't oversign) have the same issues.