Can history repeat itself?

W

WindsorHawk

Well-Known Member
I posted this quite awhile back in another thread and said I would post it again after the season. The purpose of this post is to compare next year's roster to the 1986-87 team which started 18-0; was ranked number 1 in the country; beat UTEP by 2 points in the 2nd round of the NCAA; beat Oklahoma by 2 points in the Sweet 16; and lost by 3 in the Elite 8 just short of the Final Four...after leading by 16 in the 1st half.

Side Notes: Iowa, Indiana, Purdue and Illinois were all ranked in the top 10 nationally so it was not a down year in the Big 10. Iowa lost a 1st round game in the 1986 NCAA tournament...made a nice run in the 2013 NIT.

This is as much about remembering the last team to make a deep NCAA run as it is about making serious comparisons...though some of these personnel comparisons make quite a bit of sense. Please don't get too literal or be overly critical. Here goes.

B.J. Armstrong -> Mike Gesell...both are sophomores and Gesell had a far better freshman season
Kevin Gamble -> Peter Jok...Gamble did nothing the previous year and had a great season
Roy Marble -> (obviously) Devyn Marble...son as a senior as good as (or better than) dad as a sophomore
Gerry Wright -> Melsahn Basabe...both are athletic, dunk, block shots and rebound
Brad Lohaus -> Aaron White...Lohaus was 7 foot and rebounded but preferred shooting the 3

Jeff Moe -> Josh Oglesby...Moe was a diver and fan favorite but both prefer the 3 to anything else
Ed Horton -> Zach McCabe...if it isn't physical it isn't fun
Bill Jones -> Anthony Clemmons...different games but both can defend and provide depth
Al Lorenzen -> Adam Woodbury...different games but both can rebound and provide depth

Wild Cards - Kyle Meyer & Jarrod Uthoff & Gabe Olaseni
 
WindsorHawk said:
B.J. Armstrong -> Mike Gesell...both are sophomores and Gesell had a far better freshman season
Kevin Gamble -> Peter Jok...Gamble did nothing the previous year and had a great season
Roy Marble -> (obviously) Devyn Marble...son as a senior as good as (or better than) dad as a sophomore
Gerry Wright -> Melsahn Basabe...both are athletic, dunk, block shots and rebound
Brad Lohaus -> Aaron White...Lohaus was 7 foot and rebounded but preferred shooting the 3

Jeff Moe -> Josh Oglesby...Moe was a diver and fan favorite but both prefer the 3 to anything else
Ed Horton -> Zach McCabe...if it isn't physical it isn't fun
Bill Jones -> Anthony Clemmons...different games but both can defend and provide depth
Al Lorenzen -> Adam Woodbury...different games but both can rebound and provide depth

Wild Cards - Kyle Meyer & Jarrod Uthoff & Gabe Olaseni
Click to expand...

Interesting comparisons. One difference is shooting as in Moe, Lohaus, and BJ could hit the long jumper which we arent that great at right now. Another thing is this Mr. Davis team could really lockdown on the full court pressure while Fran's teams press mainly to use up shot clock and try to speed a team up.

Really if next year we can have a guy like Moe who loved to drill shots from the corner and another shooter who can trail and hit jumpers to go along with Marble and Gesell who I hope shoot well next year then the hawks will improve. A step up to 11 or 12 wins or more in the B1g, a run toward big 10 tourney title and a couple wins in NCAA would be huge step up.
 
uihawk82 said:
Interesting comparisons. One difference is shooting as in Moe, Lohaus, and BJ could hit the long jumper which we arent that great at right now. Another thing is this Mr. Davis team could really lockdown on the full court pressure while Fran's teams press mainly to use up shot clock and try to speed a team up.

Really if next year we can have a guy like Moe who loved to drill shots from the corner and another shooter who can trail and hit jumpers to go along with Marble and Gesell who I hope shoot well next year then the hawks will improve. A step up to 11 or 12 wins or more in the B1g, a run toward big 10 tourney title and a couple wins in NCAA would be huge step up.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree with your comments on the comparisons...sounds like you were also watching the Hawks when this team played. I will counter with a key point. No one saw that level of success coming in 1986-87.

Armstrong almost transferred to a smaller school because he thought he was in over his head...hardly played as a freshman. Davis convinced him to stay. Gamble did nothing as a JUCO transfer the year before...was nailed to the bench. Lohaus was thought to be a wasted scholarship going into his 5th year...RS between his sophomore and junior years. Davis took him out of the post and played him primarily on the perimeter where thrived both at Iowa and in the NBA.

The point I'm making is no one thought (could possibly know) the 1986-87 team would be that good. No one could have predicted that Lohaus (played in the post), Armstrong and Gamble (left him off of your reliable 3 point shooter list) would shoot the way they did.

It's easy for me to see Gesell doing what Armstrong did. I still think Oglesby could turn his shooting around and hit them like Moe could. Is Jok going to shoot it like he did in HS? We don't know but we didn't know about Gamble either. Devyn is ahead of where his dad was as a sophomore IMO. Basabe can do everything Wright could do. Will Uthoff shoot the 3 the way a trailer like Lohaus did? Woodbury and Olaseni give us experience and depth in the post that we didn't have.

I'm not saying this is going to happen. I'm saying it isn't that far fetched of a notion. I would also contend that Fran's half court D is way ahead of Mr. Davis's...to offset the fact that the press doesn't put as much duress on the opponent.

This could happen. It won't be exactly the same but it could be just as much fun...and the Big 10 was absolutely loaded that year. We didn't even finish 1st in the conference at 14-4.
 
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WindsorHawk said:
I don't disagree with your comments on the comparisons...sounds like you were also watching the Hawks when this team played. I will counter with a key point. No one saw that level of success coming in 1986-87.

Armstrong almost transferred to a smaller school because he thought he was in over his head...hardly played as a freshman. Davis convinced him to stay. Gamble did nothing as a JUCO transfer the year before...was nailed to the bench. Lohaus was thought to be a wasted scholarship going into his 5th year...RS between his sophomore and junior years. Davis took him out of the post and played him primarily on the perimeter where thrived both at Iowa and in the NBA.

The point I'm making is no one thought (could possibly know) the 1986-87 team would be that good. No on could have predicted that Lohaus (played in the post), Armstrong and Gamble (left him off of your reliable 3 point shooter list) would shoot the way they did.

It's easy for me to see Gesell doing what Armstrong did. I still think Oglesby could turn his shooting around and hit them like Moe could. Is Jok going to shoot it like he did in HS? We don't know but we didn't know about Gamble either. Devyn is ahead of where his dad was as a sophomore IMO. Basabe can do everything Wright could do. Will Uthoff shoot the 3 the way a trailer like Lohaus did? Woodbury and Olaseni give us experience and depth in the post that we didn't have.

I'm not saying this is going to happen. I'm saying it isn't that far fetched of a notion. I would also contend that Fran's half court D is way ahead of Mr. Davis's...to offset the fact that the press doesn't put as much duress on the opponent.

This could happen. It won't be exactly the same but it could be just as much fun...and the Big 10 was absolutely loaded that year. We didn't even finish 1st in the conference at 14-4.
Click to expand...

86-87 was also the first year of the three point shot so nobody really knew what kind of impact that would have with Moe, BJ, Gamble and Lohaus.
 
nationalchamps said:
86-87 was also the first year of the three point shot so nobody really knew what kind of impact that would have with Moe, BJ, Gamble and Lohaus.
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That's good info...didn't know that. I think it's relevant to Moe. The other 3 hadn't played so it wouldn't have mattered one way or the other...comparing year to year IMO.
 
WindsorHawk said:
I don't disagree with your comments on the comparisons...sounds like you were also watching the Hawks when this team played. I will counter with a key point. No one saw that level of success coming in 1986-87.

This could happen. It won't be exactly the same but it could be just as much fun...and the Big 10 was absolutely loaded that year. We didn't even finish 1st in the conference at 14-4.
Click to expand...

Windsor, I agree with the nobody saw it coming. I went to the Iowa-Drake game at Vets that year with another hawk fan and I could not believe how Iowa destroyed drake.

And not only how much they destroyed them but how they did it. I hadnt seen a good Iowa pressing team since Miller's teams and that night the hawks would get a rebound and be at half court with one pass and a layup fastbreak bucket before you could take another breath.

It was amazing. I cant remember if the Hawks won the alaska shootout that year before drake or after or maybe not that year but they were much the same athletes of course as raveling had but Mr. Davis had just let them loose. I would love to see your 14-4 prediction come true.
 
oregonhawkeye said:
They did win the GAS that year, I think beating NCSt.
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They did beat NC State but it wasn't in the championship game...semi-finals I believe. We were down 14 with about 5 minutes to play. Davis had the players in the huddle and said something to the effect of...Let's show them what pressure defense can do. Iowa won 90-89 in OT.
 
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