Bowlsby Questioning Whether Robust Season Possible

[dirtwrap]

To all the folks on this thread who think this is just another 'flu', and we're all pussies, get real. My son is on the front lines of this, working in a COVID-19 ICU. I hope to God you don't end up on a ventilator like many others in the US who once minimized the risk. The longer people like you act like nothing is wrong, the longer my son will be having to literally risk his life. Think about it, if it was YOUR family member. Now, onto lighter things...
Ohio St. and Oklahoma have already prohibited gatherings on their campus until at least Aug. 1. So there will be no fall football season which starts on Labor Day. Period. It's either start Oct. 1 or later. BTen ADs have a consensus to not start playing games until fans can be in the stands. Will fans flock to stadiums beginning in Oct, with no vaccine available? Doubtful. Playing either an 8 or 12 game season in the spring of 2021 makes the most sense: it's possible a vaccine will be available by then, more herd immunity will be in effect, it will be safer for the players and fans, and the revenue still counts in the same university fiscal year. Wins all around.

I am sure I can speak for everyone here and thank your son for his service at this time.

I disagree with the rest of your post as being "lighter things" and that there are "wins all around." If our so-called leaders overreact and not allow mass gatherings for the rest of the year, or hell, for really any prolonged period of time, it will mean absolute destruction for a huge sector of our economy and many, many more lives will be adversely affected than if they got the virus in the first place. Its not all fun and games, there are many businesses and workers that depend on these events to make a living. Think about it, all sporting events including football, baseball, auto racing, hockey, the rest of the NBA season, and countless others, as well as concerts, conferences, trade shows, farmers markets, and even weddings and many many more would be cancelled and everything that supports them would be cancelled too.

Also know that 2/3 of our workforce is employed in small businesses, and about 75% of all businesses are sole proprietors, and very very few if any of those businesses have been aided by the 2 trillion dollar stimulus plan and now the money has run out. The only hope, and I mean only hope, for these businesses to stay alive and these workers continue to feed their family will be that the country opens back up. And I mean like now. I own a small business, and if you gave me a choice right now that I could either A. ride this out in lock down and wait until we get a vaccine before I can open back up, or, B. Just inject me with the virus and I will sign a waive that I wont take up one of the precious ventilators or risk your sons life and I will stay home and see if I make it or not and the country will open up, I will choose B. And I highly doubt I am the only one. At this time I am much more fearful of losing everything I have worked for the past 25 years than I am of a virus that has a 1 or 2 percent chance of killing me. I think if you are elderly or have some health conditions, then stay home. Seriously, stay home. Lets create a program to help those people so they can get food, supplies and care, but let the rest of us get back to our lives. Its like throwing the pebble in the pond and watching ripples come from it, and every day we wait the ripples get bigger and bigger and there will be a tsunami that will doom us all. And in the end, I promise you that nobody wins. Nobody!!!!!!

 

[Grady]

I am sure I can speak for everyone here and thank your son for his service at this time.

I disagree with the rest of your post as being "lighter things" and that there are "wins all around." If our so-called leaders overreact and not allow mass gatherings for the rest of the year, or hell, for really any prolonged period of time, it will mean absolute destruction for a huge sector of our economy and many, many more lives will be adversely affected than if they got the virus in the first place. Its not all fun and games, there are many businesses and workers that depend on these events to make a living. Think about it, all sporting events including football, baseball, auto racing, hockey, the rest of the NBA season, and countless others, as well as concerts, conferences, trade shows, farmers markets, and even weddings and many many more would be cancelled and everything that supports them would be cancelled too.

Also know that 2/3 of our workforce is employed in small businesses, and about 75% of all businesses are sole proprietors, and very very few if any of those businesses have been aided by the 2 trillion dollar stimulus plan and now the money has run out. The only hope, and I mean only hope, for these businesses to stay alive and these workers continue to feed their family will be that the country opens back up. And I mean like now. I own a small business, and if you gave me a choice right now that I could either A. ride this out in lock down and wait until we get a vaccine before I can open back up, or, B. Just inject me with the virus and I will sign a waive that I wont take up one of the precious ventilators or risk your sons life and I will stay home and see if I make it or not and the country will open up, I will choose B. And I highly doubt I am the only one. At this time I am much more fearful of losing everything I have worked for the past 25 years than I am of a virus that has a 1 or 2 percent chance of killing me. I think if you are elderly or have some health conditions, then stay home. Seriously, stay home. Lets create a program to help those people so they can get food, supplies and care, but let the rest of us get back to our lives. Its like throwing the pebble in the pond and watching ripples come from it, and every day we wait the ripples get bigger and bigger and there will be a tsunami that will doom us all. And in the end, I promise you that nobody wins. Nobody!!!!!!

I hear you. I own a small business too. Really sorry your 25 years of work is threatened. And I appreciate your willingness to take responsibility for your own personal risk. But I'm afraid it's not as simple as you suggest. If you are healthy and go about your business as usual, you may well contract C-19, not have any symptoms, and if you're running a business, may encounter 50-100 people a day. We don't know the exact infection and death rates, but they're significant. By opening your business, you'd be unknowingly killing probably 1 person every other day. And the ripples would indeed get bigger and bigger, and soon we'd be looking at hundreds of thousands of new deaths, and maybe 1 million + in the US alone. The fear and panic involved in that type of outbreak would not be good for ANY business. So I hear ya, I just respectfully disagree.

 

[HawksMN]

It's crazy how we as a society just flat out over-react to everything.

A couple people in a cave in Afghanistan get lucky and all of a sudden we have to practically strip naked to get on a plane. I'm pretty sure there's a better method to protect passengers than that.

And now a virus that appears to have a mortality rate, once it's all said and done, maybe 3x the mortality rate of the flu and all of a sudden we have to shut the whole effing country down and can't reopen until we have a vaccine that may never come?

When did we become such pussies and afraid of our gd shadow?

Touche! Like a vaccine will save us all....if it's anything like the flu shot, it'll be more miss than hit. Herd immunity needs to progress, and hiding just prolongs the pain.

 

[dirtwrap]

I hear you. I own a small business too. Really sorry your 25 years of work is threatened. And I appreciate your willingness to take responsibility for your own personal risk. But I'm afraid it's not as simple as you suggest. If you are healthy and go about your business as usual, you may well contract C-19, not have any symptoms, and if you're running a business, may encounter 50-100 people a day. We don't know the exact infection and death rates, but they're significant. By opening your business, you'd be unknowingly killing probably 1 person every other day. And the ripples would indeed get bigger and bigger, and soon we'd be looking at hundreds of thousands of new deaths, and maybe 1 million + in the US alone. The fear and panic involved in that type of outbreak would not be good for ANY business. So I hear ya, I just respectfully disagree.

I dont disagree with what you are saying either. It is an impossible situation where there are no right answers. I just think there is a point where the risk of covid and the risk of economy (when I say economy I mean our way of life, mental health, financial health, etc) are the same.

 

[westender]

Touche! Like a vaccine will save us all....if it's anything like the flu shot, it'll be more miss than hit. Herd immunity needs to progress, and hiding just prolongs the pain.

The deal is our hospitals were not set up to deal with something so contagious and potent (a pandemic), so if everyone gets at once everything gets overloaded and people who may not have otherwise have died but for that reason end up dying. So that is the benefit of "hiding" as you call it. And if you were in one of the really at risk categories you better try hiding from it. but if no restrictions even some "healthy" people end up in hospital from it. Tony Boselli (ex-NFL lineman) is a good example. ended up in ICU and had no health conditions.

 

[westender]

I am sure I can speak for everyone here and thank your son for his service at this time.

I disagree with the rest of your post as being "lighter things" and that there are "wins all around." If our so-called leaders overreact and not allow mass gatherings for the rest of the year, or hell, for really any prolonged period of time, it will mean absolute destruction for a huge sector of our economy and many, many more lives will be adversely affected than if they got the virus in the first place. Its not all fun and games, there are many businesses and workers that depend on these events to make a living. Think about it, all sporting events including football, baseball, auto racing, hockey, the rest of the NBA season, and countless others, as well as concerts, conferences, trade shows, farmers markets, and even weddings and many many more would be cancelled and everything that supports them would be cancelled too.

Also know that 2/3 of our workforce is employed in small businesses, and about 75% of all businesses are sole proprietors, and very very few if any of those businesses have been aided by the 2 trillion dollar stimulus plan and now the money has run out. The only hope, and I mean only hope, for these businesses to stay alive and these workers continue to feed their family will be that the country opens back up. And I mean like now. I own a small business, and if you gave me a choice right now that I could either A. ride this out in lock down and wait until we get a vaccine before I can open back up, or, B. Just inject me with the virus and I will sign a waive that I wont take up one of the precious ventilators or risk your sons life and I will stay home and see if I make it or not and the country will open up, I will choose B. And I highly doubt I am the only one. At this time I am much more fearful of losing everything I have worked for the past 25 years than I am of a virus that has a 1 or 2 percent chance of killing me. I think if you are elderly or have some health conditions, then stay home. Seriously, stay home. Lets create a program to help those people so they can get food, supplies and care, but let the rest of us get back to our lives. Its like throwing the pebble in the pond and watching ripples come from it, and every day we wait the ripples get bigger and bigger and there will be a tsunami that will doom us all. And in the end, I promise you that nobody wins. Nobody!!!!!!

Which of your friends or family's lives would you like to sacrifice? Okay with you if any of them have to die before a vaccine?

 

[dirtwrap]

Which of your friends or family's lives would you like to sacrifice? Okay with you if any of them have to die before a vaccine?

The reality of contracting some sort of virus and transmitting it to family members, friends and others is and always has been there. While the severity of covid may be more than the flu with respect to lethality rates, the reality is that flu does kill people, healthy people, and nobody knows why. So if you were one of the ones that contracted covid and died or contracted the flu and died, the numbers didnt matter to you because it was all the same. We can live in fear and worry about contracting a disease and not leave the house, but what kind of life is that?

Listen, I hear what you are saying and I dont think we should have just ignored the pandemic and let the chips fall where they may. But I also dont think we should shut down everything until we have an effective vaccine and it is administered either. My point in speaking up is to say that everyone has their own unique perspective, and all perspectives need to be considered.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Gents, there are no easy choices here, and certainly no one can claim that their opinions on this are absolutely correct. If there were a clear choice, there would be consensus and actions.

For me, I think the government did the right thing by shutting things down temporarily, greatly slowing the spread, and giving everyone a chance to come up with a plan -- both governmentally and personally.

The balance we are trying to reach is economic devistation versus human life. It can be easy to take the moral high ground by touting the latter, but let's face it, we all make decisions every day that put us and our loved ones at some increased risk. We let people smoke, drink, drive, PLAY FOOTBALL, etc. all of which carry some level of danger to humans. But, I recognize this plague is unlike anything ever seen in modern history.

I think we are nearing the point where a very slow re-opening is warranted. But, in the end, every person must decide for themselves what sort of risk they are willing to take for them and their family. Reopening the country in a slow and smart manner will not mandate people must do things, it will simply allow people to make the choice for themselves.

This is not easy for any of us. Remember, please be kind.

 

[dirtwrap]

Well said North!

With respect specifically to the virus, I live in a county in NC of 160,000 people. We have been in lockdown for I guess about a month now with only essential businesses open. However, the definition of essential is very broad and even includes wine, liquor and beer stores, so that goes to show how much is shut down. I have been to Wal-Mart, Lowes, and Home Depot several times in this past month (I wear a respirator) and it amazes me how many elderly, people in wheel chairs, people carrying oxygen bottles, kids and most not wearing masks or anything. I know for a fact that all of the stores I mentioned as well as Sam's Club have set new sales records to give you an idea of the traffic they have. That has gone on for the past month. I checked today and we have a total of 43 cases. Now, I know that this county probably isnt testing that much, so that could be indicative of that. But I can tell you that I drive by the hospital every day and multiple times a day at that because my shop is about a half mile away, and I have not seen any activity there. There are no more cars than usual, no lines, no tents set up outside, no mobile testing vehicles, not a thing. Business as usual.

So either we are the luckiest motherfuckers in the world or there is another explanation to why we have 43 cases and 1 death out of 160,000 people.

 

[Northside Hawk]

If were going to talk tinfoil let's talk it.

Welcome to the year 2070. Most of us here won't see it, but some of us might, and our grandkids sure will. Welcome to a world of the following

• Serum injections that allow bosses to read your thoughts and moods on the job when hooked up to monitors. You can and will be disciplined not just for what you say, but for what you might be thinking.
• Workplaces will be open 24 hours. You will still work your normal eight to ten hours but it won't all be at once. Technology will figure out your personal body clock and determine what times of the day you are most productive and that's when you will be assigned to work. You may work noon to four an again from midnight to four am
• Your spouse will be chosen for you by the government, not because she's necessarily the person you love. You will be matched based on compatibility of genetics so that your offspring will have corresponding genetics. Some will be programmed to be genetically gifted in one area and others in other areas.
• Few people will go outside anymore. For those who want the sensation of scenery virtual reality goggles will take you anywhere you wish to go.
• For those who do travel on our highways holographs will display advertising messages in the sky visible for a few hundred feet or several miles based on how much was paid for the ad.
• Headgear will be required in all moving vehicles.
• Children's beds will be equipped with roll bar cages to prevent falling accidents.
• All sports as we have known them will be abolished due to low participation at the middle and high school levels, and the lack of people willing to officiate them.

Try on that tinfoil hat for size. And don't take this too seriously. Most of us won't be around for this.

 

[westender]

The reality of contracting some sort of virus and transmitting it to family members, friends and others is and always has been there. While the severity of covid may be more than the flu with respect to lethality rates, the reality is that flu does kill people, healthy people, and nobody knows why. So if you were one of the ones that contracted covid and died or contracted the flu and died, the numbers didnt matter to you because it was all the same. We can live in fear and worry about contracting a disease and not leave the house, but what kind of life is that?

Listen, I hear what you are saying and I dont think we should have just ignored the pandemic and let the chips fall where they may. But I also dont think we should shut down everything until we have an effective vaccine and it is administered either. My point in speaking up is to say that everyone has their own unique perspective, and all perspectives need to be considered.

COVID is so much more contagious than regular "flu". So easy to pass along at rapid rates.

 

[Caddy]

Well said North!

With respect specifically to the virus, I live in a county in NC of 160,000 people. We have been in lockdown for I guess about a month now with only essential businesses open. However, the definition of essential is very broad and even includes wine, liquor and beer stores, so that goes to show how much is shut down. I have been to Wal-Mart, Lowes, and Home Depot several times in this past month (I wear a respirator) and it amazes me how many elderly, people in wheel chairs, people carrying oxygen bottles, kids and most not wearing masks or anything. I know for a fact that all of the stores I mentioned as well as Sam's Club have set new sales records to give you an idea of the traffic they have. That has gone on for the past month. I checked today and we have a total of 43 cases. Now, I know that this county probably isnt testing that much, so that could be indicative of that. But I can tell you that I drive by the hospital every day and multiple times a day at that because my shop is about a half mile away, and I have not seen any activity there. There are no more cars than usual, no lines, no tents set up outside, no mobile testing vehicles, not a thing. Business as usual.

So either we are the luckiest motherfuckers in the world or there is another explanation to why we have 43 cases and 1 death out of 160,000 people.

I work in a hospital and the reason the hospital is empty is because people are not going to the ER for anything because they are scared of this virus, as they should be. The ER, and hospital in general is empty where I work. A lot of people use the ER as a doctor's office, and they aren't doing that now, so that has contributed to it being empty, but there are a lot of people that are sick, and dying at home from things like heart attacks, etc because they are afraid to go to the hospital. Another reason the hospitals are empty is because there are no elective procedures taking place. No cardiac cath lab, which fills up cardiovascular units in the hospital daily, and is the biggest money maker for most hospitals, no open heart surgeries where I work, no endo, no general surgery, basically only things that are absolutely life and death procedures are being done. Consultations are being done by telehealth. Doctors that I work with and everyone that would have the knowledge about this virus are scared shitless of what it does to the body. There are many Covid-19 patients currently at the hospital I work. Many have recovered, or are sent him to recover, some are in the ICU, and some are on the floors in the hospital. I would say a very large part of why you only have 43 documented cases is because your area isn't testing like they need to be. Covid-19 is absolutely nothing like influenza A or B. Much more contagious, settles in the lower respiratory tract often causing severe pneumonia, the verdict is out on what damage it can cause in the short and long term to other organ systems in the body, and there is no cross immunization like there is from the yearly Influenza vaccine so there is absolutely zero immunity to it like there is with the regular flu.

 

[MoseSchrute]

Touche! Like a vaccine will save us all....if it's anything like the flu shot, it'll be more miss than hit. Herd immunity needs to progress, and hiding just prolongs the pain.

There are no guarantees for anything, and this virus seems to display some troubling behavior in some people, damaging all kinds of different organs that wouldn't be expected, even attacking the immune system itself. People, ask yourself...do we have a cure or vaccine for the common cold?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/will-there-be-a-coronavirus-vaccine-maybe-not.html

"The FDA has never approved a vaccine for humans that is effective against any member of the coronavirus family, which includes SARS, MERS, and several that cause the common cold."

 

[BlackNGold1982]

Within the next week, COVID19 will have killed twice as many Americans in just 2 months as last season’s influenza in 8 months time. We can all share perspectives and we should respect one another in doing so. Regardless of anyone’s perspective, this virus is burning through people at an alarming rate.