Beth needs to pull the trigger

[Hawkfnntn]

Fry, you have consistently said that it doesn't matter what we do with the HC if we do not increase NIL. I agree and disagree. It almost seems like you are conflating the issues because you don't want to state the obvious, which is Fran's time at Iowa probably needs to draw to an end. The talent is deficient and the fanbase has checked out. Everything has its season.

Either way, its not helpful to making a decision on the HC by saying "it doesn't matter, our NIL sucks." While true, Beth still needs to make a decision on the HC.

I also agree that hiring DeVries won't instantly fix all NIL issues, but it can only stand to help. The fans and donors are not going to rally behind Fran if he is brought back next season and give more and show up more. We know that to be true. We have seen the trendline. But, a new guy, from Iowa, with some decent success, who is younger, and that we stole from a decent program? There would be a honeymoon phase and increased interest from the fans and donors.

Separate and apart from the decision to move on from Fran, Beth has to come up with a plan to bring Iowa's MBB NIL to a competitive position. Maybe the court settlement alone allows/requires Iowa to bridge that gap? Maybe as part of the renovations to Carver more revenue sources can be created and funneled players? I 100% agree that Beth needs to prioritize this issue, and a new coach might help her do that.

Whatever the ultimate solution to the NIL issue is, it can only be enhanced by a winning product on the basketball court and appreciably more fan and donor engagement. Right now, its hard to see those things happening if we retain Fran for another season.

I totally agree with everything you said about all this. I just have questions about the court settlement part
Doesn't every school benefit from that for the same amounts? If so all schools are in same/similar boats and I just figured that'll all just be in addition to and on top of NIL that collectives and such can still give. Kids aren't gonna just be satisfied with what the schools can now give directly. They'll always want more and more.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

I haven't read that much on him yet, but I think I saw that McCollum describes his style as playing to what he has available on the roster and trying to maximize it from there.

The little I've read, I am intrigued. I think there are some elements with him that can be found in outstanding coaches - regardless of sport or level. The winning has been crazy good. I think he represents a bit of an outside the box hire that I'd like to see with the next coach. I'd rather roll the dice a little.

Without many facts to prove my point, I think Iowa will be fine in finding payroll money if it hires the right coach. Iowa won't ever compete at the highest levels in this regard, but it has a passionate fan base. If fans like what they hear (and more importantly, like what they see) from a new coach, Iowa won't stay at the bottom in roster $.

I'm excited to see what Goetz does.

 

[trj]

Totally agree on Fran's departure being amicable. I hope he stays a part of the program the way Davis did. I doubt Fran stays in Iowa City, but who knows. He has some roots here and enough cash to have several houses.

Given the current status of athletics, I think just about any change of head coach is a tear down and rebuild type of situation. Maybe the Iowa kids wait long enough to give the new coach a chance to be heard. But, I agree the roster will look different.

Devries agent is the first call Beth makes and she should have already made it. It would not surprise me if there is a relatively quick announcement after the last game. It would not seem Iowa has any post season tournaments unless something weird happens.

I know that we went back and forth on the Fran/TD legacy stuff in other threads. I do want to acknowledge that Fran seeked out TD’s advice on several occasions and they are good friends.

All that said, the last game is March 9th. Being a homer, I think they clip Michigan St. on Senior day and the season goes on a little bit longer. Regardless, IMO, decisions have already been made.

 

[eyekwah]

Two coaching names from the past and one from the present, Don Haskins, Jerry Tarkanian, and Rick Pitino. Why am I throwing out these names? Haskins was the coach at UTEP that raided the city of Chicago for players to attend a college basically in a desert on the Mexican border. Jerry Tarkanian raided Los Angeles to bring players to Las Vegas. Pitino, now at St John's, wining again. In all three of these cases are coaches that take player risks and played loose with the rules.

Where am I going with this? Iowa finds a coaching personality like one of these three and agrees to pay the coach $6M with the understanding that he will use $4M of it to pay his players $300K each. He donates the monies to organizations so they can pay the player for NIL activities. This is the new "doing it the right way" at Iowa. Shit can the idea that these are students. I don't like it, but in the new environment of employee / employer athletics it really isn't dishonest.

 

[trj]

Two coaching names from the past and one from the present, Don Haskins, Jerry Tarkanian, and Rick Pitino. Why am I throwing out these names? Haskins was the coach at UTEP that raided the city of Chicago for players to attend a college basically in a desert on the Mexican border. Jerry Tarkanian raided Los Angeles to bring players to Las Vegas. Pitino, now at St John's, wining again. In all three of these cases are coaches that take player risks and played loose with the rules.

Where am I going with this? Iowa finds a coaching personality like one of these three and agrees to pay the coach $6M with the understanding that he will use $4M of it to pay his players $300K each. He donates the monies to organizations so they can pay the player for NIL activities. This is the new "doing it the right way" at Iowa. Shit can the idea that these are students. I don't like it, but in the new environment of employee / employer athletics it really isn't dishonest.

If you are going to hire the used car salesmen-Bruce Pearl type individual…then you need to get Bruce Pearl type results.

To put this in football terms…I have no interest in hiring PJ Fleck to get Kirk Ferentz like results.

 

[SwirlinLingerie]

Two coaching names from the past and one from the present, Don Haskins, Jerry Tarkanian, and Rick Pitino. Why am I throwing out these names? Haskins was the coach at UTEP that raided the city of Chicago for players to attend a college basically in a desert on the Mexican border. Jerry Tarkanian raided Los Angeles to bring players to Las Vegas. Pitino, now at St John's, wining again. In all three of these cases are coaches that take player risks and played loose with the rules.

Where am I going with this? Iowa finds a coaching personality like one of these three and agrees to pay the coach $6M with the understanding that he will use $4M of it to pay his players $300K each. He donates the monies to organizations so they can pay the player for NIL activities. This is the new "doing it the right way" at Iowa. Shit can the idea that these are students. I don't like it, but in the new environment of employee / employer athletics it really isn't dishonest.

So just gotta find a Hall of Fame coach who wants to come to Iowa for $2M a year (i.e. like a third of market value)?

 

[NorthKCHawk]

I totally agree with everything you said about all this. I just have questions about the court settlement part
Doesn't every school benefit from that for the same amounts? If so all schools are in same/similar boats and I just figured that'll all just be in addition to and on top of NIL that collectives and such can still give. Kids aren't gonna just be satisfied with what the schools can now give directly. They'll always want more and more.

I am not convinced that all of the big NIL schools aren't already directing school funds into NIL through channels. I don't believe that Iowa just doesn't have smart or deep pocket donors, but somehow Iowa State and Creighton can figure this all out? Money is fungible. So, maybe a school has a donor who has pledged 5 million per year for a project and the school tells him to redirect some of that to a player or collective? So, if and when this court settlement ever happens and schools are required to pay their players, I suspect that a decent amount of money goes from dark to light money. That is a lot of guessing on my part.

The way the system should work is that the schools pay the players directly and true NIL money gets paid out to the Caitlyn Clark's of the world, but I doubt that will ever truly be the case. Dark money has always lived in college sports.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

Two coaching names from the past and one from the present, Don Haskins, Jerry Tarkanian, and Rick Pitino. Why am I throwing out these names? Haskins was the coach at UTEP that raided the city of Chicago for players to attend a college basically in a desert on the Mexican border. Jerry Tarkanian raided Los Angeles to bring players to Las Vegas. Pitino, now at St John's, wining again. In all three of these cases are coaches that take player risks and played loose with the rules.

Where am I going with this? Iowa finds a coaching personality like one of these three and agrees to pay the coach $6M with the understanding that he will use $4M of it to pay his players $300K each. He donates the monies to organizations so they can pay the player for NIL activities. This is the new "doing it the right way" at Iowa. Shit can the idea that these are students. I don't like it, but in the new environment of employee / employer athletics it really isn't dishonest.

This isn't the crazy idea and some schools are already doing some version of this. I have always thought that if I was Fran, with as much money as I should have in the bank already, I might fund the collective myself just to get some better talent in the door my last couple seasons on the bench.

Would I rather have 4 million and coach average talent, or make 3 million and have some real horses to coach?

 

[Fryowa]

Since @longtimer started this thread, we will do an ISU comp. Otezlberger wasn’t/isn’t bringing in NBA calibur guys the way Hoiberg did. He just finds dudes that fit the way he wants to play basketball. It doesn’t matter if it is McCollum or Devries, you are going to need a similar blueprint.

ISU quite obviously pays players more. Give just about any P6 coach that roster and they'll win a lot more ballgames than Iowa regardless of the system.

Until they either put a cap in place or start revenue sharing, and eliminate free transfers, this sort of thing going on at Iowa right now is going to continue. It's the wild west.

 

[Fryowa]

I am not convinced that all of the big NIL schools aren't already directing school funds into NIL through channels. I don't believe that Iowa just doesn't have smart or deep pocket donors, but somehow Iowa State and Creighton can figure this all out? Money is fungible. So, maybe a school has a donor who has pledged 5 million per year for a project and the school tells him to redirect some of that to a player or collective? So, if and when this court settlement ever happens and schools are required to pay their players, I suspect that a decent amount of money goes from dark to light money. That is a lot of guessing on my part.

The way the system should work is that the schools pay the players directly and true NIL money gets paid out to the Caitlyn Clark's of the world, but I doubt that will ever truly be the case. Dark money has always lived in college sports.

In a legal sense, my puny brain doesn't think that the NCAA/conferences/what have you can put a real cap or structure of NIL equality on players.

What (legally) is to stop a private donor(s) from giving a kid $5,000,000 privately on the side to play football or basketball? The NCAA has already washed its hands fo the matter and the courts have opined that paying players is legal and allowed. What would be the precedent for saying kids in one industry vs another can be limited as to how much they can make?

If a conference came and kicked a kid out for taking outside money, how would they win a lawsuit brought by that kid? The courts didn't say, "It's legal to pay players X amount of money?

Even if it was limited, the money would undoubtedly get to his or her hands, it's just the route it would take.

 

[NorthKCHawk]

In a legal sense, my puny brain doesn't think that the NCAA/conferences/what have you can put a real cap or structure of NIL equality on players.

What (legally) is to stop a private donor(s) from giving a kid $5,000,000 privately on the side to play football or basketball? The NCAA has already washed its hands fo the matter and the courts have opined that paying players is legal and allowed. What would be the precedent for saying kids in one industry vs another can be limited as to how much they can make?

If a conference came and kicked a kid out for taking outside money, how would they win a lawsuit brought by that kid? The courts didn't say, "It's legal to pay players X amount of money?

Even if it was limited, the money would undoubtedly get to his or her hands, it's just the route it would take.

You are mostly right here. There are a couple work arounds.

The players would have to unionize and collectively bargain this right away. Why would they do that?

Congress could pass a law regulating this. They have been trying for years now and haven't gotten close as far as I know. When has Congress ever solved an actual problem?

The best solution I have is contract. "Kid, you agree to come to Iowa to play football and I will pay you 100k a year to do so, and you agree not to take any money from other sources related to football other than from Iowa." It's probably a legal contract. I mean, I work full time for my law firm and we don't let our attorneys moonlight/side hustle for another law firm. They are generally referred to as exclusivity provisions. Of course, for these to work all the schools would need to use them and that's probably an antitrust violation. The whole thing is a bloody mess.

 

[Dadman]

This isn't the crazy idea and some schools are already doing some version of this. I have always thought that if I was Fran, with as much money as I should have in the bank already, I might fund the collective myself just to get some better talent in the door my last couple seasons on the bench.

Would I rather have 4 million and coach average talent, or make 3 million and have some real horses to coach?

Can I just have the 4 million or is this a loaded question?

 

[trj]

ISU quite obviously pays players more. Give just about any P6 coach that roster and they'll win a lot more ballgames than Iowa regardless of the system.

Until they either put a cap in place or start revenue sharing, and eliminate free transfers, this sort of thing going on at Iowa right now is going to continue. It's the wild west.

Yes, the ISU payroll is probably deeper than Iowa. What I do know is that it is no where near the Kansas payroll. Ain’t no one currently playing for ISU making even close to Hunter Dickinson money.

My point remains the same. No matter who the next Iowa coach is, there has to be a level of “buy in” on the guys he recruits to win games…otherwise it is not going to work. As eye rolling as it may be…Oltezenberger cracked the code on this, and deserves credit for it.

 

[Zstatman]

It is very hard to ignore McCol;lum's 4 Natty's at Div II NW Mo (hey, I went to a summer school session there) and a Div I outright conference championship your first year at that level.