Bench contribution

U

urohawk

Well-Known Member
The last two games combined

80 minutes
3 points
1-9 FG
11 rebounds
2 A
6 TO
1 Block
2 Steals

Those number are so bad it is scary. I am trying in my head to figure out is there any way Iowa will even be competitive next year. I look at our starters and keep saying that 4 of the five are reasonable productive by Big Ten standards. Even last night if you look at the 2-5 position we were competitive w/ Wisconsin. Cully while decent for a freshman is clearly one of the worst starting PGs in the Big Ten. So is it even possible w/ experience and a full roster we will be better?

We have clearly the worst PG play in the Big Ten (not bringing in a true PG next year)
We have the least ability to create off the bounce in the Big Ten (probably not improving that much, maybe May will improve next year and Marble may help?)
The worst perimeter defense in the Big Ten (probably not improving much)
Worst bench play in the entire country (Will improve but how much is very debatable)

Basically all three sophmores next year would have to improve as much as Fuller did this year and 4/5 newcomers would have to be able to play at least as well as May has this year w/o the advantage of big minutes. Man am I depressed.
 
urohawk said:
The last two games combined

80 minutes
3 points
1-9 FG
11 rebounds
2 A
6 TO
1 Block
2 Steals

Those number are so bad it is scary. I am trying in my head to figure out is there any way Iowa will even be competitive next year. I look at our starters and keep saying that 4 of the five are reasonable productive by Big Ten standards. Even last night if you look at the 2-5 position we were competitive w/ Wisconsin. Cully while decent for a freshman is clearly one of the worst starting PGs in the Big Ten. So is it even possible w/ experience and a full roster we will be better?

We have clearly the worst PG play in the Big Ten (not bringing in a true PG next year)
We have the least ability to create off the bounce in the Big Ten (probably not improving that much, maybe May will improve next year and Marble may help?)
The worst perimeter defense in the Big Ten (probably not improving much)
Worst bench play in the entire country (Will improve but how much is very debatable)

Basically all three sophmores next year would have to improve as much as Fuller did this year and 4/5 newcomers would have to be able to play at least as well as May has this year w/o the advantage of big minutes. Man am I depressed.
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This year has been rough! Even when I figured Iowa would win 4-5 Big 10 conference games, it was hard to imagine that games would be so hard to watch at times.

Payne, Gatens, Lickliter, May, Bawinkle, and Tucker play the guard position and none of them can really create off the bounce. I don't know why next year will be better really, unless May takes giant steps forward with his ball handling. May has the athleticism that if he can improve his ball handling skills he could be a player that can help make some sort of a difference. I guess my hope is that Brust and Marble are a lot better than they get credit for and are ready to beat Big 10 guards off the bounce with some consistency.

I was given a hard time saying I did not see Gatens getting much better off the dribble going from his freshmen to sophomore year. Guess what he has not gotten to the point where you can expect him to create.

In this system you have to have someone who can put the ball on the floor with some level of consistency. Getting into the lane and having a legit threat of finishing is key, make the defense collapse and hit the open shooters or dump the ball off to open big men.

Iowa needs a player who can do this.

Heck I would not be surprised to see Iowa win about 16-17 games next year. I don't know if that gets them in the NIT? I would not bank on 17 wins to do it.
 
How about Payne's & Gaten's numbers last night.

72 minutes
7 points
3-16 FG
0 rebounds
6 A
3 TO
0 Blocks
1 Steals
 
Payne and Gatens can not be starters together in the future for Iowa to be successful...

It's one or the other. As many others have stated... we need a guard, PG or SG who can create his own shot. Until we have a guard who can create their own looks, it will be the same result in Lick's system.
 
Since you brought it up. Iowa missed the boat more than once on recruiting a playmaker/passer. Gatens is not and never will be a player to carry a team. In high school ICH was nothing until the Derbys and Malcolm dumped their schools and transferred to ICH. Oh, and I forgot the addition of D1 Lil Lick. The only way Gatens would have seen the state tournament. Do not expect him to carry Iowa. May did a better job of that with his hs team. As far as a point guard, they are expected to handle the ball and control the flow. They are expected to create and when they draw help or a double then they are expected to find the open man, it's called an assist. They need at least a 2:1 assist/TO ratio. They are expected to play great defense and rebounds would be nice. The PG is a key position and Iowa doesn't have one by this definition. Some players go to lesser schools to help them build and then there are POOR recruiters that bring in lesser players to help a storied basketball program crumble. Gatens a solid role player, Cully a shooting guard (not feared) but definitely not a PG. There won't be a turnaround with this lineup the way it is. I don't care if you let them play for 8 years without injury.
 
ibahawkeye said:
Payne and Gatens can not be starters together in the future for Iowa to be successful...

It's one or the other. As many others have stated... we need a guard, PG or SG who can create his own shot. Until we have a guard who can create their own looks, it will be the same result in Lick's system.
Click to expand...

Sure they can. Payne at PG, Gatens at the 3. You can certainly find room for both and they should both be starters.
 
storminspank said:
Sure they can. Payne at PG, Gatens at the 3. You can certainly find room for both and they should both be starters.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think Gatens needs to play the 3. Bring May off the bench, and find a combo guard who can take people off the bounce, get his shot, be a good offensive player, and play a little point if needed.

This gives us our best ball-handling. Payne and Gatens can both take it off the bounce, a little. May doesn't even attempt to break his defender down (b/c he can't), which is why Gatens is always forced to look like a clown trying to do something he and everyone else knows he can't do.
 
storminspank said:
Sure they can. Payne at PG, Gatens at the 3. You can certainly find room for both and they should both be starters.
Click to expand...

This all depends on what players are brought in. I know you love Payne and have him penciled in as a 4 year starter but I think there are better players out there who could supplant him in the lineup
 
storminspank said:
Sure they can. Payne at PG, Gatens at the 3. You can certainly find room for both and they should both be starters.
Click to expand...

I agree somewhat, you could have both be starters but the other backcourt player better be a dynamic player who can create off the bounce, handle the ball and guard the other team's best perimeter player. Those players are pretty rare. If you don't have that player...well you see the results.

I disagree that Payne should be a starter at this point in his career. If you look position by position and rank every starting player in the Big Ten 1-11, our other four starters would not be in last place. Payne clearly would be. Even Cole who is playing out of position at center would be ahead of a couple other posts in this league (Indiana, PSU, NW).
 
You can like Payne all you want, I said Gatens is a good role player but don't look for him to carry a team. I did say that Cully is not a point guard. Yes he is a freshman and no he isn't a passer and can't create. Eustachy was right about these threadheads. Enjoy three more years of getting pounded and grabbing a chunk of hope from a ten point defeat or get together and do something about it. When you keep getting pounded in the head you do have the opportunity to duck.
 
If I were to wager a guess, I think you may see Gatens become the Sixth Man of the Year as I believe May has a real good chance of overtaking him in terms of what he can bring to the offensive end of the floor once he focuses on his ballhandling this off-season. Additionally, I think it is safe to say we need at least one "lock-down" type defender and between the trio being mentioned I think he also has the greatest potential there as well.
 
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