Be careful what you wish for (re: coaching)
- Thread starter theboat
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busabus114
Well-Known Member
hahaha
This is the risk you run firing a coach like Fulmer. Does anyone even remember when Tennessee was relevant? Crazy, because they were so good for so long
This is the risk you run firing a coach like Fulmer. Does anyone even remember when Tennessee was relevant? Crazy, because they were so good for so long
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
yep, all programs have ups and downs, first thing the haters want to do is get rid of the coach...
I disregard the very small fringe element wanting Ferentz fired. At the same time I like to read and hear, and I do this myself, what fans think are hilites of the games and various coaching aspects/judgements that could change. Since the time I drove from Des Moines to Purdue to see the 2007 game where Kirk ran the clock down to 3 seconds before the half, down 14-6, called timeout, then punted from mid-field instead of throwing a hail mary, I have really wondered about some of his and the coaching staffs decisions. It only takes a few decisions a game for a staff to lose the game (witness beilema and stoops calling timeouts on defense very late in a tied game). We all know of other questionable decisions but lets hope they stay at a minimum.
But face it Kirk has done a overall very good job.
But face it Kirk has done a overall very good job.
And who should really care if he makes $3.7 million base salary if he is paid out of donations and football revenue, without any tax dollars. I posted earlier that he is paid for his past accomplishments a current worth. If the hawks avg 8-5, 7-6, 6-7 over the next fews years his salary should just stay as it is. If the war chest depletes there will be changes.
I would be interested to hear if the Nebraska fans feel similarly about Solich. Things have been kind of sparse since he left, but he never quite lived up to Osbourne's legend. Maybe sometimes you have to swing and miss a few times to hit a home-run?
One thing I have noticed: most of the coaches that have come in and had immediate success over the past decade or so have done so at traditional powers (Tressel as OSU, Meyer at Florida, Stoops at Oklahoma, Carroll at USC, Saban at Alabama, Miles picking up where Saban left off at LSU). To buck that trend you either have to have athletic departments with very deep pockets (Chip Kelly at Oregon) or stumble into a once in a decade talent (Gene Chizcik at Auburn).
One thing I have noticed: most of the coaches that have come in and had immediate success over the past decade or so have done so at traditional powers (Tressel as OSU, Meyer at Florida, Stoops at Oklahoma, Carroll at USC, Saban at Alabama, Miles picking up where Saban left off at LSU). To buck that trend you either have to have athletic departments with very deep pockets (Chip Kelly at Oregon) or stumble into a once in a decade talent (Gene Chizcik at Auburn).
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
Gene Chizcik wasn't so great at ISU, national champ at Auburn. Did he become a great coach overnight? OR...did he inherit a team with national championship talent? I would say the latter, which is why I still think KF is our guy. He has won with talent, and had poor seasons w/out a lot of talent (this year). Yes, last year was one year where I thought we had a lot of talent but didn't perform. Otherwise, KF wins when he has talent, IMO
theboat
Well-Known Member
Gotta love that "poor" seasons now mean 7, possible 8 or 9 win seasons.
The bar is set pretty hide at Iowa since 1981 Fry set it high and Ferentz has solidified it. Fry probably averaged 7 wins a season during 11 game seasons. Ferentz is doing it also. THe hawks have had a good 30 year run and fans expect to be relevant for the next 10 years. I would expect one big 10 title in the next decade at least.
HawkeyeMHA
Well-Known Member
i rushed that a little bit, issues here on the home front. If we beat little red and get to 8 wins, average season. if we win our bowl and get to 9 wins, decent season. If we have seven wins, not a great season, below avg.
theboat
Well-Known Member
Just a quick search.
Per year.
80's: 7.7 wins, 4 losses. (4 ties total)
90's: 6.2 wins, 5.3 losses (2 ties)
2000-present (excluding this year) 8 wins, 4.5 losses.
Crazy how perspective changes with the new forms of media.
DBAHawkFan
Well-Known Member
It's the baffling coaching decisions, it's the style of play. It's losing players each year for whatever reason.....
I am not calling for KF to be fired, what I am calling for is for the staff to either adapt to the times and stop with the stupid play/mistakes. One thing about the 2001-2004, and the 2008-2009 to a lesser extent was Iowa was always well prepared and played smart.
Some aspects of 2009 we started to see some poor mental mistakes by both players and coaches. That carried over to 2010, and this year has been the least intelligent team in a long time. You can't tell me that the Iowa/Purdue game was a thing of beauty....aside from the first two possesions, it was mistake filled, turnover filled, and just plain laughable at times.
The games we play all fall the same ******. We take an early lead, we look pretty good, offense goes into a funk (either self inflicted or maybe opposing def figures us out), go into half a close game. 2nd half we don't do much, other team gets close, we start to get things moving again....only to have the game come down to the final possesion. Either a drive on our offense or a stop by our defense.
Most of us are very tired of watching that same scenario play out week to week. A win is a win, but does it always have to feel like we lucked into it? A lot of us would love to blow out a team going into the half so our backups can get reps. When was the last time our backup QB got more than one series???
So no, we're not all asking for KF to be fired or leave. But we do want him held accountable for mistakes, especially mistakes that seem to happen way too much (clock management for example). Get those fixed, and I think all of us would be very happy with the program.
I am not calling for KF to be fired, what I am calling for is for the staff to either adapt to the times and stop with the stupid play/mistakes. One thing about the 2001-2004, and the 2008-2009 to a lesser extent was Iowa was always well prepared and played smart.
Some aspects of 2009 we started to see some poor mental mistakes by both players and coaches. That carried over to 2010, and this year has been the least intelligent team in a long time. You can't tell me that the Iowa/Purdue game was a thing of beauty....aside from the first two possesions, it was mistake filled, turnover filled, and just plain laughable at times.
The games we play all fall the same ******. We take an early lead, we look pretty good, offense goes into a funk (either self inflicted or maybe opposing def figures us out), go into half a close game. 2nd half we don't do much, other team gets close, we start to get things moving again....only to have the game come down to the final possesion. Either a drive on our offense or a stop by our defense.
Most of us are very tired of watching that same scenario play out week to week. A win is a win, but does it always have to feel like we lucked into it? A lot of us would love to blow out a team going into the half so our backups can get reps. When was the last time our backup QB got more than one series???
So no, we're not all asking for KF to be fired or leave. But we do want him held accountable for mistakes, especially mistakes that seem to happen way too much (clock management for example). Get those fixed, and I think all of us would be very happy with the program.
NewMexHawk
Well-Known Member
Average seven wins a year means Iowa only wins four games in the Big 10? Three of those wins are typically against cupcakes. Average six wins a year and Iowa is winning three games in the B1G. That three and four win B1G season, also means Iowa is losing to the likes of Minnesota and Indiana, the bottom of the B1G. But then with three and four wins in the B1G, Iowa is a middle of the B1G or lower team themselves.
Doesn't sound quite so impressive now does it? Sounds like a pretty average coach earning almost $4,000,000 a year.
Doesn't sound quite so impressive now does it? Sounds like a pretty average coach earning almost $4,000,000 a year.
JailBreak81
Well-Known Member
I think he was referring to Cam Newton. I almost said about the same thing, then it occurred to me that is probably the once a decade talent he was referring to. I could be wrong though.
This and all of that brings in a ton of money to the school, Athletic department, and hospital but so many people can't figure that out.
I love how posters like NewMex say the wins are vs. cupcakes. Would you rather be a cupcake like Minny, Indiana, etc? Or Illinois do you think Illinois fans would take what Iowa has done over the last few years?
Yes I hate losing to teams we should beat and yes I think the program can do better but always love when people run to the money issue when they have no clue how much KF brings in being the coach.
Ramblings From the Short Bus:
I just want some of this stuff to get cleaned up. It doesn't feel like we're making any progress at times. I've been as critical as anyone of kirk and especially ken o'keefe. I want what's best for the hawkeye program. I believe we're more than "lil ole iowa". Does that mean we shouldn't have down years? of course not.
What really worries me is when Norm Parker retires. I know you all think he's lost it, over the hill and his defense couldn't stop a high school team but in my opinion, the top 10 defenses he's put on the field year in and year out has been the key to any success we've had under the Kirk regime. In my opinion, Norm Parker and Chris Doyle are 75% of our success. When it's the end of games in a 17-13 game and our defense finally breaks, you guys blame it on our defense disreguarding the fact that our talented offense can't put up 20 points on the 103th ranked opponent defense.
The future is what scares me. The past 10 years have been phenomenal so I'd give Kirk the benefit of the doubt. But he's made some pretty questionable personnel decisions. Like hiring your long time friend as offensive coordinator when you know you won't be able to fire him.
There are so many grey issues in all of this it's difficult. Of course we don't want to set the program back 20 years by making a bad hire. At the same time, the same problems we've always had will continue without change or even serious recognition. We'll continue to give away possessions at the end of halfs knowing full-well that our defense will be on the field first in the 2nd half. We'll continue to have backups without any real game experience. We'll continue use our best players as decoys. McNutt should get 15 targets/game not 7 or 8. On and On and On.
With all that said, I think we gotta stick with Kirk. Just wish he wasn't so damn defensive and wish he'd be willing to admit he could and should improve their weaknesses.
I just want some of this stuff to get cleaned up. It doesn't feel like we're making any progress at times. I've been as critical as anyone of kirk and especially ken o'keefe. I want what's best for the hawkeye program. I believe we're more than "lil ole iowa". Does that mean we shouldn't have down years? of course not.
What really worries me is when Norm Parker retires. I know you all think he's lost it, over the hill and his defense couldn't stop a high school team but in my opinion, the top 10 defenses he's put on the field year in and year out has been the key to any success we've had under the Kirk regime. In my opinion, Norm Parker and Chris Doyle are 75% of our success. When it's the end of games in a 17-13 game and our defense finally breaks, you guys blame it on our defense disreguarding the fact that our talented offense can't put up 20 points on the 103th ranked opponent defense.
The future is what scares me. The past 10 years have been phenomenal so I'd give Kirk the benefit of the doubt. But he's made some pretty questionable personnel decisions. Like hiring your long time friend as offensive coordinator when you know you won't be able to fire him.
There are so many grey issues in all of this it's difficult. Of course we don't want to set the program back 20 years by making a bad hire. At the same time, the same problems we've always had will continue without change or even serious recognition. We'll continue to give away possessions at the end of halfs knowing full-well that our defense will be on the field first in the 2nd half. We'll continue to have backups without any real game experience. We'll continue use our best players as decoys. McNutt should get 15 targets/game not 7 or 8. On and On and On.
With all that said, I think we gotta stick with Kirk. Just wish he wasn't so damn defensive and wish he'd be willing to admit he could and should improve their weaknesses.
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I definitely agree DroidHawk but the one thing that Norm's defensive scheme has never really done is get off the fr##gin field on 3rd and long. As good as the defense has been change things up to get off the field on 3rd and long. last 10 years that has been a defensive weakness and getting off the field can give the under achieving offense better field position.
Sometimes the offense needs the short field more in a game to score. I agree that the offense should be scoring an avg, avg 7 points more a game per year. no reason for it except weird play calling, like albert young rushing for 146 yards in the first half at ISU a few years back and then hardly getting any carries in the second half. Stuff like that happens all the time.
ICHawk24
Well-Known Member
First off, you have 3200+ posts, and I have yet to see you post something other than a negative post. It must be great to hate something that you should be following for fun.
Misrepresenting facts (8 win average becomes 7 in your description, 2 cupcake wins becomes 3, $3.8M becomes $4.0M) shows your lack of intellectual honesty.
Name a single season that they have three wins from a "cupcake". Iowa State is not a cupcake, not matter how much negative nellies like yourself want to call them that. They are a Big 12 team. We play them on the road every other year. Losing that game is not a "cupcake".
You state Iowa wins 3 to 4 games in the Big Ten each year. In the last decade, its been averaging closer to 5.
Iowa is an above average performing team IN CONFERENCE GAMES ONLY. In Kirk's Iowa career, he is 57–46 in conference. 57-38 if you exclude his first season. That is .600 ball. That is an average of 4.8 wins per season. Should I start rounding up to 5, and represent it as 5 Big Ten wins a season?
