Battle Brewing Over Playoff Format

TecmoSuperHawk

TecmoSuperHawk

Well-Known Member
Many fans in the south have criticized the Big Ten for impeding progress on a better system for college football over the years. But if a 4 team playoff does not come to pass, it might be time to blame the SEC. Coming out of their meetings this week, Florida president Bernie Machen said the SEC will not compromise on the playoff format including the top 4 teams.

Delany and the Big Ten have said their preference (hybrid model of conference champs and a wild card) but Delany has reiterated he is open to other proposals. Yet here the SEC is drawing a line in the sand. Frankly I am quite irritated at the extreme arrogance of SEC officials and media members this week. The ESPN SEC blog has written a couple of articles with inaccurate statements about the Big Ten and it's position on the playoffs. Then the hard stance the SEC is taking on the top 4. Plus other parting shots like this from Machen:

"The group that has to get real is the Big Ten to realize the world is going in a different direction"

Not to mention Nick Saban's "self absorbed" comments which he made referring to the Big Ten. Yet he's so dumb he apparently doesn't realize those comments are referring to himself and the SEC as well.

I am fine if the top 4 end up getting the nod and I'm fine if some hybrid model of conference champs and a wild card go in. But if neither do and we end up with what we currently have or worse, then maybe it's time we all get to blame the SEC.
 
The SEC has all the leverage right now, since the current system favors them by letting two teams from the same conference in the title game. No way they are going to give up their current superiority willingly.
 
Screw the SEC, they want to have a double SEC championship game every year then they can just do their own thing.
 
I don't give a flying flip about the SEC or playoffs. Yeah, we know they're going in a different direction - one we can do without just fine as it relates to institutional integrity, financial oversight, recruiting ethics and academics. Give me my Big Ten schedule and I'll get along just fine without approval from the SEC or the TV talking heads. It's time to say screw the direction of it all and preserve the unique and historic culture of the Big Ten.
 
But it makes me laugh that Nick Saban can say people are not acting in the best interest of college football if they don't want a top 4 included. Yet what is really best for the sport as a whole (because the sport isn't just about the SEC) is that other conferences have access. This is what the Mountain West and other conferences have been fighting for so long. If you have some component of a conference champ then it increases the chances that a conference champ in the Mountain West or Conference USA or even the Big East will have that access to the playoffs. That is what is best for college football as whole, even if not as good for the SEC. But Nick Saban is to "self absorbed" to realize this.

I'll say again I am fine with the top 4 being included in the playoffs but if we are talking the good of all D1, then this will not be the best format.
 
vince56 said:
I don't give a flying flip about the SEC or playoffs. Yeah, we know they're going in a different direction - one we can do without just fine as it relates to institutional integrity, financial oversight, recruiting ethics and academics. Give me my Big Ten schedule and I'll get along just fine without approval from the SEC or the TV talking heads. It's time to say screw the direction of it all and preserve the unique and historic culture of the Big Ten.
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I agree with this....BIG champ plays pac ten champ in pasadena in the tournament of CHAMPIONS. Let the SEC and Big 12 name their "national champ" the BIG and Pac 12 will be just fine without the others
 
Screw the SEC. They would not be satisfied unless they get 3 or 4 of the slots in the 4 team playoff every year.
I would accept the hybrid approach suggested by Frank the Tank from Orangebloods.

Basically for a second team from the same league to make the ''playoff'' they would have to rank #1 or #2 in the overall rankings. So, last year, LSU and Bama would have made the playoff. The top 4 get in, unless their is a second team from a conference at #3 or #4...then they are out and #5 gets in. Last year it would have been LSU vs Oregon and Bama vs OK St. ...fine.

Bama and LSU have that same division thing working for them,where they can play in the season,then the loser does not play in the Conference title game so they end up back on top with only one loss,along with the team that beat them,the conference champ. That could happen again this year...and many years. It is going to suck to have that happen routinely. So, somehow they have to make it the total exception.
The whole impetus for this playoff movement was the LSU-Bama rematch,and now Saban and co. want the playoff to be set up so that happens again and again?

Screw them. Let them split off and have their own title game vs the Big 12 every year,and the Big Ten/Pac 12 will have our own,in the Rose Bowl,and let the polls pick a champion.....makes for more college football talk that way anyway.
 
As an older Hawkeye fan I could give a rat's a$$ about the BCS arrangement. It is little more than an argument over how the usual few football powers get crowned national champion. In one corner you have two conferences pimping for using rankings to determine four teams for a playoff and other conferences preferring selection from teams that are conference champions.

It comes down to cultural differences between conferences. The SEC and B12-2 are primarily southern schools. The history of members of the old Southwest conference, partially the predecessor of the B12-2, and SEC is checkered with scandals. Past and present behavior indicates that if bending the rules is necessary rules will be bent. Would Alabama fire Nick Sabin, Mr Oversigning, over the reasons Jim Tressel was let go? I seriously doubt it.

Sometimes it is better not to do something. This is one of them.
 
Travis and Tim (TnT in the mornings) from 6-8 on KxNO have been arguing about this off and on since it started being discussed...if they're only going to have 4 teams it should include conference champions (according to Travis)...but Tim's argument is it should be the 4 best teams regardless of conference championship...so here's where I come down on this argument...

I agree with Travis...as of now, in its current pledged 4 team playoff, it should be conference champions, with some type of safety net so that an 8-4 team doesn't slide in. As for those who argue it should be the 4 best teams even if they don't win their conference, my argument would be this (feel free to use this against Tim, Travis, since I haven't heard it get brought up yet)...how can you claim that you want a system that will determine a champion "on the field" and then argue so hard to include teams that didn't earn a spot "on the field" by winning their conference?

What I'd really like to see (eventually) is an 8 team playoff with a combination of conference champions and a couple of at large bids.
 
HawkeyeShane said:
Travis and Tim (TnT in the mornings) from 6-8 on KxNO have been arguing about this off and on since it started being discussed...if they're only going to have 4 teams it should include conference champions (according to Travis)...but Tim's argument is it should be the 4 best teams regardless of conference championship...so here's where I come down on this argument...

I agree with Travis...as of now, in its current pledged 4 team playoff, it should be conference champions, with some type of safety net so that an 8-4 team doesn't slide in. As for those who argue it should be the 4 best teams even if they don't win their conference, my argument would be this (feel free to use this against Tim, Travis, since I haven't heard it get brought up yet)...how can you claim that you want a system that will determine a champion "on the field" and then argue so hard to include teams that didn't earn a spot "on the field" by winning their conference?

What I'd really like to see (eventually) is an 8 team playoff with a combination of conference champions and a couple of at large bids.
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Exactly!!!
 
TecmoSuperHawk said:
Yet what is really best for the sport as a whole (because the sport isn't just about the SEC) is that other conferences have access. This is what the Mountain West and other conferences have been fighting for so long. If you have some component of a conference champ then it increases the chances that a conference champ in the Mountain West or Conference USA or even the Big East will have that access to the playoffs.
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Screw that. The best four teams should be in a playoff if we're forced to have one. If a Big East or Mountain West team is in the top-four then they can be in it, but throwing out a top-four team that finished second in its conference in favor of one of those sub-par conferences is stupid.
 
I keep coming back to the idea of two rounds of in-conference playoffs. Take the top four teams from every conference and let them play each other. Then Bama gets their rematch and things move forward. Then send the conference champs to a bowl game against another conference champ and then let the chips fall where they may with respect to the plus one.

But, don't include polls. Have a clear RPI type rating process.

Polls are just not any kind of accurate measure, particularly because they overemphasize wins over schedule.
 
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DwayneTwill said:
Yeah, yeah. We know. That's a stupid, non-starter idea.
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Well, your plan is stupid as well. The reason Boise was ranked so high each year is because the polls overemphasize winning against cupcakes and the polls are based on predictions of how a team should do based on their schedule.

So, pollsters look at Boise's schedule and they realize they should run the table so they rank them high at the beginning of the season. Then Boise wins and thy pat themselves on the back. It is about the ego of the pundit, not who is the better team.

They would just have to radically restructure how they determine the top four teams.
 
You have to win your conference in order to qualify for any BCS consideration. Last year Alabama had their chance at the NC but lost, now you allow them to have a 2nd chance? Last year LSU was the best team in the SEC, they won their conference championship and had beaten Alabama on the road. They got screwed by being forced to play them again. I find it crazy that a national champion can be crowned that did not even win their conference. LSU is crowned SEC champion but Alabama wins the National Championship!

I would be much more comfortable with 2 teams from the same conference playing each other for the NC if they would just scrap the playoff idea and just go to a BCS plus one system. Play all the BCS bowls on NYD and have the top 2 ranked in the BCS poll play each other 2 weeks after. If after playing these BCS bowls the #1 and #2 teams are from the same conference then let them play. Then you keep all the integrity of the bowl system in place. It is such a simple formula that would work at least be a happy medium by just about everyone and all the talking heads can do is make it complicated.

If all else fails scrap the entire damn BCS system and go back to that unique system of allowing the polls determine your champion.
 
One of the biggest things the B1G has working against it, that not many people address, is the propaganda machine (Espin) that is propagating pro SEC & anti B1G gibberish. It has changed perception across this country. No one outside of a B1G state thinks the B1G is worth a crap, just ask them. So when the SEC says they want the top 4, its because they KNOW that Espin has shaped the perception to benefit them in this scenario.

IMO, the B1G powers that be have done a terrible job of countering this. Just awful.
While Jim Delany has done many very good things, he & his colleagues have failed to address this spotlight issue. The gap between the SEC & B1G is as large as its ever been & its widening. Public perception, shaped by Espin, has been as big a factor as anything in this gap.

So the best players will continue to go to SEC schools. Hell, the #1 prospect in the country signed with freakin' Missouri.
 
First of all, the whole playoff scenario for college football sucks. What makes college football so special an unique are two things:

1. The regular season is more exciting than in any sport. The regular season is practically a de facto playoff in and of itself.

2. Bowl games. 30+ bowls over a 3 week period make for some fun viewing.

A playoff would ruin both of those. Maybe not right away, but does anyone think we'll stop at 4 teams? Heck no. Within 10 years, the regular season will be so devalued that it won't mean squat.

BUT, if a playoff is inevitable, I don't think you use 4 teams, I think you use 6. You pick 4 conference champions from the 4 major conferences (Big 10, Big 12, SEC and Pac 12) and then two "wild card" teams. The top 2 teams get a bye and the other 4 teams play each other in the first round (#3 plays #6 and #4 plays #5). The higher seeded team plays at home. The second round would also be played at the #1 and #2 seeded home stadiums. The Championship Game would be played at a neutral site.

Just my $.02.
 
People constantly confound the issue. The issue isn't that there isn't a playoff. I think the past decade plus of arguing over a fix is proof that no one has a surefire playoff solution.

The problem is much bigger and I've argued this for years. You can't have a reasonable solution to a division with 119 teams, period. They need to create separation because there isn't parity there.

The BCS needs to limit the total number of teams to a manageable number within conferences. Then your can allow your conference play to funnel into something reasonable for a playoff system.

This ridiculous assertion from people that a 4 team or plus one solution is the answer isn't going to solve anything. Even an 8 team playoff introduces problems that you don't want to deal with. We've had the cart in front of the horse for too long and until you address the underlying landscape you're not addressing the main issues.
 
treychase said:
One of the biggest things the B1G has working against it, that not many people address, is the propaganda machine (Espin) that is propagating pro SEC & anti B1G gibberish. It has changed perception across this country. No one outside of a B1G state thinks the B1G is worth a crap, just ask them. So when the SEC says they want the top 4, its because they KNOW that Espin has shaped the perception to benefit them in this scenario.

IMO, the B1G powers that be have done a terrible job of countering this. Just awful.
While Jim Delany has done many very good things, he & his colleagues have failed to address this spotlight issue. The gap between the SEC & B1G is as large as its ever been & its widening. Public perception, shaped by Espin, has been as big a factor as anything in this gap.

So the best players will continue to go to SEC schools. Hell, the #1 prospect in the country signed with freakin' Missouri.
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No offense, but it's not just perception, it's reality.

When one conference has won the last 6 national championships, it should tell you who the best conference is.

We haven't won a national championship in 10 years and even that one was "tainted".

The times we've made the NC game, we've gotten blown out.

Most times we've made BCS games, we've gotten blown out.

We had a chance in 2006 to make some noise with #1 Mich and #2 OSU and blew it big time.

Until we start making more noise on the national stage (NC/BCS games), the perception will match the reality.
 
HawkForce said:
I agree with this....BIG champ plays pac ten champ in pasadena in the tournament of CHAMPIONS. Let the SEC and Big 12 name their "national champ" the BIG and Pac 12 will be just fine without the others
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The only problem with this is that if the Pac 12 is given a choice to stick with the B10 in the Rose Bowl traditional relationship or go with the SEC/B12/ACC in a BCS playoff, they're probably going to chose the playoff and leave the B10 completely by itself.

Any conference that doesn't have a relationship with the upcoming playoff will die a painful death. College football is all about money. Once the playoff starts it will be worth millions. All other postseason game will be on life support as sponsers flock to the playoff games.

If the B10 doesn't jump on this train, say goodbye to OSU, Michigan, and PSU. They would jump ship on the B10 and join SEC or B12 within the decade.
 
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