Basketball is going small, Fran is going Big

lightning1 said:
There's a very good reason why Fran doesn't put Dailey at the PG spot and move Bohannon to the 2G. What does he do with Connor? If Dailey has success there, how can he justify giving Connor his minutes? Or are you suggesting playing Dailey at the 3?
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I was suggesting Dailey play the 3. I just don't think moving JBo to the 2 changes that much and if it does its only on offense. I get that he would be running off screens more but so does Ellingson and he can't really get open. Jordan averages 17 shot attempts a game which leads the team. In my opinion Dailey would be a downgrade as opposed to Jordan at the point and if there is a benefit to moving JBo to the 2, I don't think it would make up for the downgrade at the PG spot so I think the team overall is better with JBo at the point.

Replacing Garza with Dailey would improve be a change to improve our Defense which I think most agree is the area of most concern and needs the most improvement.
 
Hawkfnntn said:
I don't think I'd be a fan of that really. Baer can't defend 3s all that well let alone bigger stronger guys. He's great as a help defender but not so much on the ball if you watch him. I wouldn't say playing Wagner/Nunge at the 3 is what lead the team to demise so much. Not that it helped at all because I agree for different reasons neither of them are a fit there either. But the team overall has lots of issues all over the place. I would say D is the #1 issue with Mosses up and mostly down play being the other. He plays too much to be so inconsistently bad. It's not even just the scoring with him it's his D and lack of ball handling. He isn't able to help JBo much at all in that regard.
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If Baer were at the 4 we’d play zone. JBo, Moss, Dailey, Baer and Cook. The concern would be rebounding out of the zone but Baer is a pretty decent rebounder and Dailey has shown the ability to get a few boards as well. Offensively you’d have four guys spreading the floor for Cook with ample room to work inside. I guess my point is Fran really hasn’t experimented with as many lineups as you would think for a team struggling as bad as we are. We haven’t changed are starting lineup in quite some time.

I agree the playing big isn’t the only reason we suck, it’s just one of the many reasons.
 
ibahawkeye said:
I was suggesting Dailey play the 3. I just don't think moving JBo to the 2 changes that much and if it does its only on offense. I get that he would be running off screens more but so does Ellingson and he can't really get open. Jordan averages 17 shot attempts a game which leads the team. In my opinion Dailey would be a downgrade as opposed to Jordan at the point and if there is a benefit to moving JBo to the 2, I don't think it would make up for the downgrade at the PG spot so I think the team overall is better with JBo at the point.

Replacing Garza with Dailey would improve be a change to improve our Defense which I think most agree is the area of most concern and needs the most improvement.
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Most of Bohannon's points against Nebraska came off the ball.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
If Baer were at the 4 we’d play zone. JBo, Moss, Dailey, Baer and Cook. The concern would be rebounding out of the zone but Baer is a pretty decent rebounder and Dailey has shown the ability to get a few boards as well. Offensively you’d have four guys spreading the floor for Cook with ample room to work inside. I guess my point is Fran really hasn’t experimented with as many lineups as you would think for a team struggling as bad as we are. We haven’t changed are starting lineup in quite some time.

I agree the playing big isn’t the only reason we suck, it’s just one of the many reasons.
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Yeah I'm not a big fan of zone D. I don't know what the numbers are if we are any better or worse at one or the other. Like you said we are terrible at rebounding when we zone up. That's so frustrating if we do actually force them into missing a tough shot and then give them a 2nd shot at it.
I kinda like Cook and Garza together. The only thing I don't like is Cook isn't a threat to spread the floor if your posting up Garza. But I like putting Garza out on the wing for Cook to have room down low. Plus that gives Garza room to run in crashing for the offensive boards. So I'm not dead set against those two out there together. I just think Baer and Moss need to play better overall
 
Hawkfnntn said:
Yeah I'm not a big fan of zone D. I don't know what the numbers are if we are any better or worse at one or the other. Like you said we are terrible at rebounding when we zone up. That's so frustrating if we do actually force them into missing a tough shot and then give them a 2nd shot at it.
I kinda like Cook and Garza together. The only thing I don't like is Cook isn't a threat to spread the floor if your posting up Garza. But I like putting Garza out on the wing for Cook to have room down low. Plus that gives Garza room to run in crashing for the offensive boards. So I'm not dead set against those two out there together. I just think Baer and Moss need to play better overall
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Well, when you have a team with good length but relatively slow of foot zone would in theory make the most sense. That’s not always the case.

As far as disappointments go, I’d say Moss, Pemsl, and Baer have been the biggest disappointments this year.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Well, when you have a team with good length but relatively slow of foot zone would in theory make the most sense. That’s not always the case.

As far as disappointments go, I’d say Moss, Pemsl, and Baer have been the biggest disappointments this year.
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Yeah Pemsl didn't really improve much with the lost weight he's not carrying around now. I thought you'd be able to pencil him in for 8 pts and 5 plus boards every game but he's been far from that it seems like too.
 
Its ok to go big, but you have to make the other team pay for going small. Against Nebraska, Iowa correctly pounded the ball inside to Cook over and over on offense. However, Iowa somehow lost the rebound battle 37-28 and Nebraska shot nearly 60% from 3 point land. Iowa's zone defense is terrible. They give up so many wide open threes and they have for years.

IMO Iowa needs to ditch the zone completely and go straight man. Sure the guards will dribble around you at-will, but get some help defense and try to use your length to get your hands in the passing lanes. It sure beats the current strategy...which is leave teams wide open for 3's and praying they don't go in.
 
If you sat all the coaches down that are going to face the Hawks this year their game plans would all be pretty much the same. They all attack us with dribble penetration or move the ball quickly on the perimeter looking for a wide open shooter. They understand the Hawks glaring lack of foot speed and that's why teams are scoring so easily on us. Wisconsin is on our level with lack of speed and they don't have the shooters this year that they have had in the past. That's why I think we matched up so well with them and where able to win. I think Fran could roll out any combination of players with the current roster and the results will pretty much be the same. You can't coach someone to be quicker. I think we have the slowest team in the Big Ten and our record shows it.
 
1980HAWKFAN said:
If you sat all the coaches down that are going to face the Hawks this year their game plans would all be pretty much the same. They all attack us with dribble penetration or move the ball quickly on the perimeter looking for a wide open shooter. They understand the Hawks glaring lack of foot speed and that's why teams are scoring so easily on us. Wisconsin is on our level with lack of speed and they don't have the shooters this year that they have had in the past. That's why I think we matched up so well with them and where able to win. I think Fran could roll out any combination of players with the current roster and the results will pretty much be the same. You can't coach someone to be quicker. I think we have the slowest team in the Big Ten and our record shows it.
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I agree on Wisconsin. Early in the game I thought to myself, this is great they have nobody out there that can really beat us off the dribble (although Iverson did a bit). If only we could play them every game we’d have a halfway decent record.

I also agree we are the slowest team in the league but I do think there are things we could do with our lineup to ensure that’s not the case. How about this?

JBo 35 / Dailey 5
Moss 30 / Dailey 10
Dailey 15 / Baer 25
Cook 10 / Wagner 25 / Baer 5
Garza 20 / Cook 20

That’s a 7 man rotation and the only real slow footed player included is Garza, but he’s too good to keep off the floor. I’m not saying that’s the solution, but it’s certainly an option to increase our speed to an average level.
 
mopkins said:
Its ok to go big, but you have to make the other team pay for going small. Against Nebraska, Iowa correctly pounded the ball inside to Cook over and over on offense. However, Iowa somehow lost the rebound battle 37-28 and Nebraska shot nearly 60% from 3 point land. Iowa's zone defense is terrible. They give up so many wide open threes and they have for years.

IMO Iowa needs to ditch the zone completely and go straight man. Sure the guards will dribble around you at-will, but get some help defense and try to use your length to get your hands in the passing lanes. It sure beats the current strategy...which is leave teams wide open for 3's and praying they don't go in.
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One of our issues in zone is that our slow footed bigs get blown by in the corner. That would be Pemsl, Cook, and Kriener. When a guy beats his man off the dribble from to corner in a zone, it’s nearly impossible to rotate.
 
mopkins said:
Its ok to go big, but you have to make the other team pay for going small. Against Nebraska, Iowa correctly pounded the ball inside to Cook over and over on offense. However, Iowa somehow lost the rebound battle 37-28 and Nebraska shot nearly 60% from 3 point land. Iowa's zone defense is terrible. They give up so many wide open threes and they have for years.

IMO Iowa needs to ditch the zone completely and go straight man. Sure the guards will dribble around you at-will, but get some help defense and try to use your length to get your hands in the passing lanes. It sure beats the current strategy...which is leave teams wide open for 3's and praying they don't go in.
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I thought I saw in the box score we had the same number of offensive rebounds as Nebraska. They got a lot more attempts at defensive rebounds than we did becasue they rarely missed. On the flip side, how did they have so many offensive rebounds when they hardly missed?
 
PCHawk said:
I thought I saw in the box score we had the same number of offensive rebounds as Nebraska. They got a lot more attempts at defensive rebounds than we did becasue they rarely missed. On the flip side, how did they have so many offensive rebounds when they hardly missed?
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Garza was in foul trouble? That's my guess anyway. Doesn't seem like anyone but Garza tries very hard on the glass.
 
Bump.

Did anyone notice last night that Penn State was primarily playing Lamar Stevens at the 4? This meant when we were playing man Cook or Pemsl was guarding him. Fran also played Nunge a lot at the 3 and he had to guard Reeves. Those are horrible matchups for Iowa and the results were apparent. We tried to zone a lot as well but without the footspeed to cover the corners that got shredded as well.

Realistically Wagner should have been playing a lot of minutes at the 4 last night with way less Pemsl. Also we needed way more of the three guard lineups to match Penn State.

Fran continues to try and hammer a square peg into a round hole.
 
1980HAWKFAN said:
If you sat all the coaches down that are going to face the Hawks this year their game plans would all be pretty much the same. They all attack us with dribble penetration or move the ball quickly on the perimeter looking for a wide open shooter. They understand the Hawks glaring lack of foot speed and that's why teams are scoring so easily on us. Wisconsin is on our level with lack of speed and they don't have the shooters this year that they have had in the past. That's why I think we matched up so well with them and where able to win. I think Fran could roll out any combination of players with the current roster and the results will pretty much be the same. You can't coach someone to be quicker. I think we have the slowest team in the Big Ten and our record shows it.
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If King and Trice were healthy, we wouldn't match up with Wisconsin either.
 
ibahawkeye said:
I might even throw Uhl in the mix at the 3. I thought he looked pretty good on D. He got called for 2 fouls that I thought looked pretty weak where I thought there may have been contact but Dom was pretty straight up.
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Dude you’re nuts if you seriously think Dom Uhl should get any time I need a B10 game. DIII player
 
NikeHawk21 said:
I agree on Wisconsin. Early in the game I thought to myself, this is great they have nobody out there that can really beat us off the dribble (although Iverson did a bit). If only we could play them every game we’d have a halfway decent record.

I also agree we are the slowest team in the league but I do think there are things we could do with our lineup to ensure that’s not the case. How about this?

JBo 35 / Dailey 5
Moss 30 / Dailey 10
Dailey 15 / Baer 25
Cook 10 / Wagner 25 / Baer 5
Garza 20 / Cook 20

That’s a 7 man rotation and the only real slow footed player included is Garza, but he’s too good to keep off the floor. I’m not saying that’s the solution, but it’s certainly an option to increase our speed to an average level.
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Daily 30 min and Wagnerian 25, ouch! Like short bench idea though. I like Nunge over Wagner since he can shoot.
 
Bump.

Loyola Chicago starts 4 guards and one big.

Michigan starts 4 guards and one big.

Texas Tech starts 4 guards and one big.

Kansas starts 4 guards and one big.

The game of basketball is a guards game, especially in March. Fran made the fatal mistake of recruiting and trying to play a plethora of bigs, and the results were very apparent this year.
 
NikeHawk21 said:
Bump.

Loyola Chicago starts 4 guards and one big.

Michigan starts 4 guards and one big.

Texas Tech starts 4 guards and one big.

Kansas starts 4 guards and one big.

The game of basketball is a guards game, especially in March. Fran made the fatal mistake of recruiting and trying to play a plethora of bigs, and the results were very apparent this year.
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If you are loaded with bigs they have to be able to operate in space on both ends of the floor. You can live with one or two guys who can only operate inside the paint.......You got more than two and you are going to have problems.
 
Isn’t it funny to think a school like Kansas plays two scholarship big men and only goes 7 deep.

Meanwhile Fran plays 5+ big men and tried to go 10/11 deep.

Conventional wisdom tells me Bill Self knows what he is doing.... Fran on the other hand
 
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