B1G Bowl Podcast re: Star Wars discussion (spoiler alert!!!)

SpiderRico

SpiderRico

Well-Known Member
Great back-half of the podcast talking Star Wars!

One thing I'd point out, though, was when Steve was talking about Kylo Ren....specifically as it relates to his fight with Rey....Steve kept saying he didn't like the fact that Rey held her own against "a Sith Lord". Nowhere in the movie (at least that I can remember) is he referred to as a Sith Lord. His name doesn't contain "Darth", which all other Sith Lords previous to him have had (Darth Maul, Darth Sidious, Darth Vader, Darth Tyranus, Darth Plagueis, etc.) and if I remember right, Snoke said something to Kylo about "continuing his training in the Dark Side". So ultimately, it was a Sith apprentice against a complete (albeit obviously powerful) novice....which is much different than a Sith Lord against a novice.

Overall, I thought the movie was great. I loved the fact they went back to "physical" special effects instead of the CGI ones that were so awful previously. It lent more realism I thought. I did agree with Steve, though, that they could have told a more "emotional" story involving Han and Kylo that could have lent more weight to his death. It was almost like the movie showed it.....then quickly went on to the rest of the movie....almost like an afterthought. Not a good send-off for the greatest "scoundrel" in the Galaxy!
 
I think also it can be added that Rey likely was trained in the past in some form (likely by Luke) so that could explain further why she was so good in the fight against Ren. Ren also was injured from the blaster and was bleeding from the chest. I also think Fin likely has force powers (could also have been trained by Luke in his childhood before being forced into the First Order) as well and can explain why he held his own against Ren for awhile. And like said above, Ren was not a fully trained Sith Lord as of yet.

I thought it was a good movie. It is not a perfect film and does take a number of concepts from the other movies and things happened that seemed a little convenient to move the plot along (or seemed far-fetched or did not have enough of a set-up to make some stronger emotional connections ), but I think the film has brought back the Star Wars Franchise. I give it a 3.25 out of 4 and that number can go up if the next 2 films tie things together rather well.
 
Kylo is not a Sith Lord, but he has extensive training as a Jedi both under Luke and Snoke. Finn and Rey lasting longer than 3 seconds vs him is complete and utter bullsh!t. Even getting shot by Chewbacca is total crap. Early in the movie he was blocking blaster shots with ease and even froze a shot in the air.
 
I also hated how much sheer happenstance was in this movie:

1) Droid just happens to be right by Rey's home
2) Finn shows up in town right when Rey is there and storm troopers show up.
3) The Falcon is sitting there and easy as sh!t to steal
4) Hans ship just so happens to be right where the Falcon was even tho he says he didn't know what planet it was on. In all of space and they just "happen" to be in the same spot.
5) Finn says he just made up the fact he knows how to drop the shields. Then just so happens to find someone who can do that (and do it very easily)
6) Finn and Solo just so happen to be the only people on the planet that could spot Rey.
 
deanvogs said:
Kylo is not a Sith Lord, but he has extensive training as a Jedi both under Luke and Snoke. Finn and Rey lasting longer than 3 seconds vs him is complete and utter bullsh!t. Even getting shot by Chewbacca is total crap. Early in the movie he was blocking blaster shots with ease and even froze a shot in the air.
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Maybe you missed the half-dozen times he threw a temper-tantrum like a petulant child? I don't care how long he'd been trained....he obviously still isn't able to keep his emotions in check and he's still being pulled back to the light...lot of conflict which leads to being unfocused. Is it somewhat far fetched? Sure. But at the same time, we don't know the backstories....it may end up making more sense as the next 2 are released....
 
deanvogs said:
I also hated how much sheer happenstance was in this movie:

1) Droid just happens to be right by Rey's home
2) Finn shows up in town right when Rey is there and storm troopers show up.
3) The Falcon is sitting there and easy as sh!t to steal
4) Hans ship just so happens to be right where the Falcon was even tho he says he didn't know what planet it was on. In all of space and they just "happen" to be in the same spot.
5) Finn says he just made up the fact he knows how to drop the shields. Then just so happens to find someone who can do that (and do it very easily)
6) Finn and Solo just so happen to be the only people on the planet that could spot Rey.
Click to expand...

I would agree...these are some of the problems with things happening far to easy to move the plot along. However though, we should also remember in New Hope, R2 and C3PO just happen to land on the planet where Luke and Ben reside on and just happen to land in Luke's hands after being sold to him....and Ben does not live very far from where Luke and his Aunt and Uncle lived. Or in Empire Strikes Back, Luke happens to land on Degaba right near Yoda's home and practically runs right into him to begin his training shortly thereafter.

A number of things happen in these Star Wars films by happenstance to move the film along. But, the Force Awakens seems to have more than its fair share of these things happening.
 
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deanvogs said:
I also hated how much sheer happenstance was in this movie:

1) Droid just happens to be right by Rey's home
2) Finn shows up in town right when Rey is there and storm troopers show up.
3) The Falcon is sitting there and easy as sh!t to steal
4) Hans ship just so happens to be right where the Falcon was even tho he says he didn't know what planet it was on. In all of space and they just "happen" to be in the same spot.
5) Finn says he just made up the fact he knows how to drop the shields. Then just so happens to find someone who can do that (and do it very easily)
6) Finn and Solo just so happen to be the only people on the planet that could spot Rey.
Click to expand...

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SpiderRico said:
Maybe you missed the half-dozen times he threw a temper-tantrum like a petulant child? I don't care how long he'd been trained....he obviously still isn't able to keep his emotions in check and he's still being pulled back to the light...lot of conflict which leads to being unfocused. Is it somewhat far fetched? Sure. But at the same time, we don't know the backstories....it may end up making more sense as the next 2 are released....
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Does it really matter what he emotions are? He was trained by Luke, and he was trained by Snoke, he is trained, period.

That's fine if that doesn't bother people, as Deace said, and I said in another post, I know I am in the minority here. But also as Deace would say, don't pee on me and tell me it's raining.
 
JonDMiller said:
It's not happenstance. It's The Force
Click to expand...

Didn't know the force work that way, please explain further....Did Luke just send some randoms out, use the force and say...let Han find a Jedi....

Speaking of Jedi, it will be interesting to see what way they go with who Rey's parents are. I wonder if they even have it decided yet. They could go with Rey is Luke's daughter (a little obvious, but all signs currently points to this). Or they could go the whole Rey is Han's and Leia's daughter (will be tougher, but I could see a scenario for this).
 
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deanvogs said:
Didn't know the force work that way, please explain further....Did Luke just send some randoms out, use the force and say...let Han find a Jedi....

Speaking of Jedi, it will be interesting to see what way they go with who Rey's parents are. I wonder if they even have it decided yet. They could go with Rey is Luke's daughter (a little obvious, but all signs currently points to this). Or they could go the whole Rey is Han's and Leia's daughter (will be tougher, but I could see a scenario for this).
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I think Rey is Luke's daughter and that Luke dropped her off on Jaiku after Ren killed Luke's wife in order to protect her. I also think Supreme Leader Snoke is really Darth Plagueius, who was Palpatine's master until Palpatine thought he had killed him. However, because Plagueius had found out how to stop death, he has now come back as Snoke....which might explain why he looks like a freaking zombie! :)

Anyway, I think a lot of things seem happenstance right now because we don't have the benefit of hindsight like we do the other 6. I think once the final two chapters are written, we'll be able to fill in a lot of the gaps in this chapter.
 
deanvogs said:
I also hated how much sheer happenstance was in this movie:

1) Droid just happens to be right by Rey's home
2) Finn shows up in town right when Rey is there and storm troopers show up.
3) The Falcon is sitting there and easy as sh!t to steal
4) Hans ship just so happens to be right where the Falcon was even tho he says he didn't know what planet it was on. In all of space and they just "happen" to be in the same spot.
5) Finn says he just made up the fact he knows how to drop the shields. Then just so happens to find someone who can do that (and do it very easily)
6) Finn and Solo just so happen to be the only people on the planet that could spot Rey.
Click to expand...



Dude have you watched Star Wars before? The Foce acts in mysterious ways. As for Finn landing and the storm troopers happening to show up.... It's because they escaped Kylo Ren's ship, and we're being followed.
 
deanvogs said:
Does it really matter what he emotions are? He was trained by Luke, and he was trained by Snoke, he is trained, period.

That's fine if that doesn't bother people, as Deace said, and I said in another post, I know I am in the minority here. But also as Deace would say, don't pee on me and tell me it's raining.
Click to expand...


Yes it matters! Have you ever seen the original movies when Yoda trains Luke? The reason Luke lost to Vader in Empire is because he could not control his emotions enough when facing the Sith and later could not deal with the burden of knowing Vader is his father. It is said that by finishing his training with Yoda he will learn to control his emotions.
 
franstheman said:
Yes it matters! Have you ever seen the original movies when Yoda trains Luke? The reason Luke lost to Vader in Empire is because he could not control his emotions enough when facing the Sith and later could not deal with the burden of knowing Vader is his father. It is said that by finishing his training with Yoda he will learn to control his emotions.
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Listen, I get I'm in the minority, that most everyone is gonna love this movie. That's cool, I enjoyed it somewhat, but thought it was very, very weak in many spots.

As far as an Jedi fighting with emotion, Luke did it all the time. He lost to Vader in the Empire Strike Back because he wasn't done training and was emotional. With more training he defeated Vader in Revenge of the Jedi, even though he was emotional and went ape sh!t when Vader basically found out about his sister. That tells me that training is important.

I just think it is silly to have an untrained stormtrooper and untrained "Jedi" (are you even a Jedi before you are trained)? best a Jedi who is trained by Luke Skywalker, and by a Sith Lord.
 
deanvogs said:
I also hated how much sheer happenstance was in this movie:

1) Droid just happens to be right by Rey's home
2) Finn shows up in town right when Rey is there and storm troopers show up.
3) The Falcon is sitting there and easy as sh!t to steal
4) Hans ship just so happens to be right where the Falcon was even tho he says he didn't know what planet it was on. In all of space and they just "happen" to be in the same spot.
5) Finn says he just made up the fact he knows how to drop the shields. Then just so happens to find someone who can do that (and do it very easily)
6) Finn and Solo just so happen to be the only people on the planet that could spot Rey.
Click to expand...

Dude, I couldn't agree more. Walking out of the theater all I could think of was how they were able to fight, even a poorly trained, person that had experience using the force. I felt that it might potentially kill much of my excitement for the next ones in the series. I mean, even being shot he should have had little trouble. The beauty of Empire is that Vader didn't want to kill Luke and Luke had been trained. He barely made it out alive, and Rey is running around like a Jedi half-way through the movie. What gives?

That being said, it's nice to see another Star Wars movie. It's been like 30 years since they had one, you know. ;)
 
Mademyaccount4u said:
Dude, I couldn't agree more. Walking out of the theater all I could think of was how they were able to fight, even a poorly trained, person that had experience using the force. I felt that it might potentially kill much of my excitement for the next ones in the series. I mean, even being shot he should have had little trouble. The beauty of Empire is that Vader didn't want to kill Luke and Luke had been trained. He barely made it out alive, and Rey is running around like a Jedi half-way through the movie. What gives?

That being said, it's nice to see another Star Wars movie. It's been like 30 years since they had one, you know. ;)
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I think they set it up to show that Kylo Ren was in a learning process of his own, prone to petulant outbursts and not yet there...I think this next movie will have both KR and Rey training up for the third movie
 
JonDMiller said:
I think they set it up to show that Kylo Ren was in a learning process of his own, prone to petulant outbursts and not yet there...I think this next movie will have both KR and Rey training up for the third movie
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I agree. Kylo being partially trained was countered by him being injured and Rey being more of a natural with the force. She definitely has a higher ceiling.
 
Once the SuperWeapon drained that Sun for power, conditions on that planet would very quickly become incompatible with life. Nobody would be in shape to have a lightsaber fight anyway.
 
deanvogs said:
I also hated how much sheer happenstance was in this movie:

1) Droid just happens to be right by Rey's home
2) Finn shows up in town right when Rey is there and storm troopers show up.
3) The Falcon is sitting there and easy as sh!t to steal
4) Hans ship just so happens to be right where the Falcon was even tho he says he didn't know what planet it was on. In all of space and they just "happen" to be in the same spot.
5) Finn says he just made up the fact he knows how to drop the shields. Then just so happens to find someone who can do that (and do it very easily)
6) Finn and Solo just so happen to be the only people on the planet that could spot Rey.
Click to expand...

So general note: Almost EVERY movie made has elements of luck and happenstance to drive the plot forward. Books are the same way.

Now, to 4 and 5.
4) Han Solo clearly states that he was searching for the Falcon and was tracking it's signature. As soon as the ship was started up by Rey and Finn, Han Solo knew were to find it. Not happenstance, and it was explained.
5) You mean he knew that Captain Fasma, the ONLY shiny silver storm trooper captain in the movie, would know key strategic information like shields? Yeah, I'd say that's believable.
 
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