WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
Absolutely.
Austin Ash
- Thread starter spliff45
- Start date
kicker22
Well-Known Member
He was very impressed with what he saw in their wins. Both of them.
RobHowe
Administrator
Official: Austin Ash Returns to Iowa Basketball
Senior guard comes out of transfer portal to rejoin Hawkeyes.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
So much for having to have a winning tradition, beaches, warm weather, etc. to be able to recruit.
They are not same/same. This is absolutely ridiculous.
Nebraska Football thinking they should win because "they are Nebraska Football" is not the same as Iowa thinking we should have D1 caliber players because they are a D1 program.
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
This 100%. We are not shooting for the moon here....it should not be to much to ask that the University of Iowa recruits D1 players....not D3.
Fryowa
Administrator
It’s absolutely the same thing, and you’re just proving my point. You are the exact fan I’m talking about. Thinking Iowa should be punching above it’s weight for no reason at all other than being a homer.
Instead of just saying I’m wrong give me a good reason why a really good recruit would come here. I gave points supporting my position, can you do the same. Remember recruits don’t give two shits about making the final four back before their parents were born and 8 track players were still being put in cars. When was the last time Iowa had any amount of success in the BTT or postseason play?
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Ian Pike Hammer
Guest
OK, OK, what's done is done. We got Ash.
Now how does that affect playing time?
I'd be especially interested in different takes on breakdowns of individual playing time if a few of you have no lives and are still sober.
Who gets how many minutes per game?
Now how does that affect playing time?
I'd be especially interested in different takes on breakdowns of individual playing time if a few of you have no lives and are still sober.
Who gets how many minutes per game?
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
In this situation, we are not asking for a National Title Fry (wrapped in Big Red 90s nostalgia style) we are asking for recruiting D1 point guard that starts at a Big Ten School. Not one that should be playing at Coe.
Not even asking for a really good guard, just an average Big Ten guard (at least when it comes to Ash).
But, yes, Iowa has a problem when it comes to making long runs (Big Ten Titles, Elite 8s, Final Fours, etc) if it can't get real good guard play. It can't accomplish these things with incomplete rosters....apparently....well heck factually even with the player of the year under Fran thus far.
How do you get them to come here besides what has already been said? Well, that is what Fran gets paid the big bucks for to figure out. The ice cream at Carver is pretty good. Then again with Barta, maybe not as keeping your head just above water is good enough for him until the retirement of said coach (sans maybe the Wrestling Team as National Titles and high national finishes are the norm....or you check the wrong boxes if you know what I mean there with the prior lawsuits).
Honestly, I think Fran has already accomplished what Barta wanted from him. Get Iowa back to the NCAA tournament and keep that goal within striking distance every year or couple of years or so. That is not fireable (as even I agree there) but the act will eventually get old with the fan base if there is no top end success to go along with it on the resume. At least Mr. Davis could point to some top end success and that is the piece that is missing right now for Fran.
I know Mr. Davis and Fran are in different time periods and came in with different situations. But, top end success...it is important to have some. He blew it this year. Maybe they were overrated, maybe the Big Ten was overrated. But, universally, this was thought to be Fran's best team this past year and they could get no more traction as a 2 seed as if they were a 7 seed in this tournament. Again, I do believe they got bad luck and a bad draw with Oregon and them not having to play a game before us. But, you got to find a way to overcome that if you want to start being more than what you are. At least, at most places you do, especially those programs who have taken the next step as programs into a fixture of elite status.
I don't like Wisconsin, but I have to hand it to them, they have been much better than us in having far more feel good moments with top end success.
One thing is for sure, I know Garza was not overrated. It is a shame he does not have a Sweet 16 or better on his college resume. But, he did not have the guard play to complement him and some sort of defensive miracle adjustments at half time or the 1st half.
An Ash scholly feels like the move of a guy who knows he got an extension, no worries, and knows next year is likely a wash expectations wise.
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RyDogg
Well-Known Member
This is about the only thing I will disagree with you on this post. I don't care for the ice cream.
Fryowa
Administrator
I never said anything about winning a national title. And the comparison to nebraska is totally valid. Their fans are past wanting a natty, they just can’t figure out why they can’t recruit and contend for a division title, no different than Iowa fans.
So what we’re (still) saying is, there aren’t any compelling reasons—Fran or no Fran—for Iowa to pull in really good recruits, right? And again, mentioning Mr. Tom is stupid. It happened in a completely different era under a completely different set of circumstances and conditions in the NCAA. You didn’t have one and dones. You didn’t have the rampant corruption with huge AAU and sponsor money. You didn’t have Euro and G-League ball to take players. You didn’t have free agency which we do now. And it was THIRTY FIVE FUCKING YEARS AGO. Wake up. Davis doesn’t mean shit to any recruit today no matter how much you guys reveled in those seasons.
You say, “...that’s what Fran gets paid to figure out...” That’s a huge cop out. You want to fire him because he can’t figure it out? Roll the dice on another Lick? See what the next guy can do ‘cause it can’t get any worse? If you don’t want to fire him, what’s your alternative solution?
Garza was a once in a century unicorn. Fran won the lottery and without him, and this Iowa team would’ve been fighting for 12th place in the B1G this year. Pretty simple math when you look at our record and margins of victory. So again I ask, give me some compelling reasons (or even one reason) why a difference-maker type recruit would come to Iowa over the top 3/4ths of the big ten when cheating isn’t part of the mix.
And you sure as hell can’t use, ”buhcuz wur a Big Ten school that plays on tv a lot ‘n we put uh lotta kids in the pros...” If either of those things were a factor they’d already be working with or without Fran. And the professional basketball angle? Lol. Iowa doesn’t exactly excel at that compared to the top half of the B1G.
Let’s face it, Pat and Connor came here because their dad coaches. Wieskamp came here because he’s always been a diehard Hawk. Bohannon was from literally right up the street and Garza was not a high profile recruit. Murray is here because his dad played here. What does that leaves this team with? I don’t think you realize how good Iowa actually has it, but you want more. This program has ZERO post season success in the last thirty years, and no BTT success whatsoever since Fran got here. Since 2014 the only team worse in the BTT is Northwestern. Smallest market team other than dumpster fire nebraska in the middle of arctic empty corn fields. I love Iowa but during winter this place might as well be the surface of Mars. How the hell can anyone recruit here?
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
I don't want him fired. Just to be clear again. He is meeting minimal expectations. But, also would not be sad if he said today I'm leaving to coach at XYZ school out East. I think Fran is replaceable...better than Lick certainly....Alford probably(certainly more professionally)....but still replaceable.
Could we get another Lickliter? Sure. Could we get another Olson? Sure. It is a crapshoot. But, fortunately we don't have to worry about that as Fran has kept us competitive enough to not have to go down that road at this time. Though, he has completed year 11 and I do think at some point the fan base is going to want more and have some type of top end success to point to. This kind of sounds like the same situation Mr. Davis found himself in, but I think the difference there is Mr. Davis had some top end success and was a fixture in the NCAA tournament.
I don't know if fans will be tired of the act in 3 years, 4 years? Mr. Davis had 13 years. I also don't think anything will happen as long as Barta is the AD. Again, I don't advocate firing a coach who has his team NCAA tournament bound every 3 or 4 years out of 5. Certainly not at Iowa and it's relative history. However, it is tempting to look at the girl with the curls over your shoulder if you are getting bored. It did not work out the last time as we got the jerk as you know.
But, it is his job to figure it out. That is what he is getting paid for.
Again, if all this gloom and doom is true as you state then a 2nd round is the best we can realistically hope for out of a Fran led team.
I think there is certainly a difference between thinking we are God's gift to Basketball (Nebraska mentality and National Titles) and recruiting D1 players over D3 players (in Ash's case).
And, again, reasons to come to Iowa.
1. A Big Ten School that gets a lot of coverage
2. A fan base that will get behind you if you give them reason to believe.
3. A program that is more than capable of being an NCAA tournament team and has shown it can have long runs. *This is about as close to the Nebraska argument as you will get here. But, Iowa has been in NCAA tournament program as of late.
4. You can sell Iowa has produced the top player in the country. That is a fact. Might be a unicorn, but you can get some millage out of it.
Those should be enough to convince an average D1 recruit to come here.
Look, here is the deal. In the next 3 to 6 years (because he will likely be here at least that long), let's see if Fran can finally put together a complete roster. Competent guards, forwards, and post players. Not giving scholly's to D3 players. The whole package and see if they can or can't make a deep run out of that. If he can do that, then he probably will be in the talks of the Mount Rushmore of Iowa. If not, he probably will either retire, move on to another school, or be pushed out by a new AD if Barta ever leaves.
Without a doubt, Fran deserves praise for rebuilding the program. Again, I think his best coaching job was his first few years here. He gets an A there. Whatever happens, that is commendable. But, does that give you a lifetime boner? I don't think so.
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Fryowa
Administrator
1 & 2 – those are used by literally every Big Ten school. Again, those two points aren’t Fran -dependent. If they were a factor, it would be working by now. It’s not.
3 — Good grief, man. When was the last time Iowa made a “long run?” A lot of recruits’ parents were in elementary school. This is not the same program and trying to sell a single tourney run that happened when 8 tracks were still being produced not only doesn’t mean shit to a recruit, it’s embarrassing. We get it. You like Tom Davis and think he was the second coming of Christ. But he’s irrelevant to Iowa basketball recruiting in 2021. I mean, would you really stand in front of a 16 year old kid and say, “Hey man, see this black and white picture of a guy in a plaid suit looking like a cast member of WKRP in Cincinnati? His name is Tom Davis and he made a Final Four the same year your dad was born.” Are you serious???
As far as being in the tournament, elite recruits want to play for teams that have post season success. Listen to interviews. They are in it for their own branding and a bunch of early exits doesn’t help that.
4 — Love Luka Garza; best Hawk to ever wear the jersey. But he’s gone and there’s no one in the same hemisphere of Iowa basketball to replace him. Put 3 or 4 first team all Americans together in a short span and you might have something, but that’s a chicken/egg problem that’s been beat to death here ad nauseum.
Look—to get quality recruiting you have to one of two things (or both). You have a whole bunch of tourney success or you make a habit of breaking NCAA rules. Iowa has neither of those.
HuckFinn
Well-Known Member
Blasphemy!
HaydenHawk56
Well-Known Member
I get Mr. Davis was x amont of years ago...or Olson or whoever. My point is that it can be done here...we have something to point to unlike a Northwestern basketball program. You have to sell what you can. I wouldn't hide those things. Maybe it will attract kids and maybe it won't. But today's kids still know who Jordan is and I dont think it would hurt to mention BJ played right along with him an Iowa product. I agree with you that kids are going to look at what is going on now, but you still have to sell. I still maintain many kids...even of average D1 quality would be stoked to play for a Big Ten team. You see how stoked Ash is for getting that scholly. Imagine if Fran worked a bit harder for a more quality guard. This would have been the golden year to have a long run to help with attracting recruits ...didn't happen. Cheating I dont know do you dabble in it? Never seems to really hurt the blue bloods.
SmokeTownHawk
Well-Known Member
Only other way beyond out and out cheating would be to hit it right with the transfer portal or luck out with a one and done or three.
A reason why a really good recruit would come to Iowa? Ok, let's take a crack:
Because they want to:
- Play in a premier conference (and compete against strong competition)
- Have a chance to play in the NCAA tournament
- Set themselves up with the opportunity to play professional basketball
Now I know you're going to turn on your dopey-voice caption and respond with, "play in a good conference?! Every single Big10 team can say that!!!!" And yes dude. That is indeed the point. Every Big10 team should seek a Big10 caliber point guard through recruiting and/or the transfer portal. Austin Ash is not up to par. And just to finish it out, if Nebraska Football desperately needed to improve QB play (over the course of ~2 seasons), and they resorted to giving their open scholly to a severely undertalented local walk-on, the fans would scream and shout about it.
As I reflect upon this past basketball season, there was a point in time when I honestly and foolishly thought to myself: ..this is the year, we could win the National Championship. That moment in time quickly came crashing down. But it does (subjectively) speak to where we are, and where we want to be, as a program. Knowing that the team will look much different next year, as we've lost Garza, Nunge, etc., my crazed fanboy mindset has shifted. For months, I've been asking myself and discussing with friends, "what if 'this' Iowa team had an upgrade at point guard" What is we had a long athletic point guard who could get to the rim?" Or... what if this Iowa team had DJ Carton?
We don't, first and foremost. We've had a collection of hardworking and undersized guys that all have a glaring weakness in their game. And I do realize that this plays into your cynical comments, it sounds like I'm asking for the world. But really I'm not. I'm just asking for a guy who can defend against Big10 caliber guards and not get left in the dust every time. We gave up 80, 90, or nearly 100 points way too often this year. And it starts with guards that can't stay in front of anyone defensively. Austin Ash is not going to change that. We both know it and it's a tough pill to swallow.
HawkGold
Well-Known Member
It's not just the athleticism. Iowa defensive posture is bad. Hawks don't force opponents to the weak side. They are oft squared up rather than forcing the weak side or trying to beat the ball handler to the spot. Likely the Hawks don't even know the opponent's weak side. Arm extension is oft wrong. Link below to a good D posture video. We notice CM's bad shooting form, but pretty much the whole team doesn't go into correct D stance. Maybe JW does it. You don't have to be quick to be a solid Defender.
proper bb defensive posture - Google Search
www.google.com
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Ian Pike Hammer
Guest
Back in the day, I used to teach kids defensively to "move and force." Anybody still know what that is and do we teach it at Iowa?
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Ian Pike Hammer
Guest
A couple of points here:
1. Iowa is in a "Catch 22" situation, that is: "I can't get a job because I have no experience. I can't get any experience because I can't get a job!" Figure that out and you got your answer to Iowa's future.
2. Let's look at the bright side of Ash's return to the roster. Can anybody give the kid any kudos? What does he bring to the table that will help us?
1. Iowa is in a "Catch 22" situation, that is: "I can't get a job because I have no experience. I can't get any experience because I can't get a job!" Figure that out and you got your answer to Iowa's future.
2. Let's look at the bright side of Ash's return to the roster. Can anybody give the kid any kudos? What does he bring to the table that will help us?
