Austin Ash

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
It's fine, you don't have to buy it. Nebraska fans to this day can't understand why they can't get decent recruits or go to Orange Bowls every year. Your thought process is identical.

Homers can't see the forest for the trees; it isn't unique to Iowa basketball.


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Comparing us to delusional Nebraska football fans in apples and oranges. We are talking an average Big Ten guard, not a 5 star blue chipper. You mean to tell me Fran can't even land that? If that is the case, it really is nuclear winter in Iowa City and they won't go passed the 2nd round under him unless they are very, very lucky.

We are not asking for the moon here.

It is either we are really that bad, or someone has a big problem selling...or something else.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Comparing us to delusional Nebraska football fans in apples and oranges. We are talking an average Big Ten guard, not a 5 star blue chipper. You mean to tell me Fran can't even land that? If that is the case, it really is nuclear winter in Iowa City and they won't go passed the 2nd round under him unless they are very, very lucky.

We are not asking for the moon here.

It is either we are really that bad, or someone has a big problem selling...or something else.
Ok, Nuclear Winter is more Lickliter so that is bit harsh, but if this is an acceptable standard at guard play, well pack light in the post season.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
You mean to tell me Fran can't even land that? If that is the case, it really is nuclear winter in Iowa City and they won't go passed the 2nd round under him unless they are very, very lucky.
Just because you can't or won't believe something doesn't make it untrue. From my post earlier I asked you what reasons you thought were appealing at this stage in the season for a guy better than Ash to sign on. You still haven't given me any.

And regarding the comparison between you (not us) and nebraska fans, it's very much apples/apples. What you have at nebraska is a fan base which expects things that are out of touch with reality and the state of their program. They're so blinded by homerism that they literally can't see what's in front of their faces.

"We're nebraska! there's no reason why we shouldn't be above .500 and make a bowl game!"

"We're Iowa! This is a Big Ten team, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to land some decent transfers!"


Same/Same. You're following the identical logic of "I can't believe it, so therefore it's not true."

Mr. Tom ain't here anymore, and D-1 basketball ain't the same world Mr. Tom lived in.
 

HawkGold

Well-Known Member
View attachment 7828

Must be having some trouble finding shooters in the portal?

We are all homers here, and we’re hugely biased into thinking IC is an attractive place to play and people should want to come here.

But think about it from some college player’s perspective who has no ties or familiarity with the program....


-National POY—gone
-Starting center—gone to Xavier
-Starting shooting guard—gone to Kentucky
-Starting G/F—probably leaving for the draft
-Head coach missed Robbins
-Smallest B10 basketball market other than nebraska
-Snow and 20° all season long with hundreds of miles of corn fields in any direction
-No student section in our home arena
-Zero success in the conference tournament
-No NCAA tourney success beyond 2nd round blowouts and a play-in game ass whooping

I love the Hawks, but take off your rose colored homer goggles for a sec and tell me what’s attractive about this program on the transfer market to a P5 level player above Austin Ash’s skill level, especially this late in the game. These are guys looking to make a splash for (usually) their last year playing ball, not some HS school senior getting promised 4 years of loyalty and tuition.

Iowa is what Iowa is, folks. In today’s world of college basketball this isn’t going to go the other direction any time soon. Football is a different story because our team can be a contender at times and cranks out nfl players like they’re goin out of style, and even lots of pro bowlers. But hoops ain’t happenin’ my dudes. Especially not now that transferring on a whim is legal.

Weren't you just trying to help someone else with their negative attitude?

The main issue is Fran. 2ndary issues are also related to most Big programs...Corn fields, small markets and so on. Even a place like Mizzou can't get traction in KC and St. Louis. Fran did find Garza, but Garza improved because of Garza and Mr. Garza.

We know Fran's weaknesses. Defense, nepotism, attitude. We hear players have his back. Those players are likely as not having a last name with M and the JB who is allowed to be at times an embarrassment in attitude (though when he does well, we accept it). Could Iowa do worse than Fran...of course. Better? As much as most any other place in the Big. Fred has a top 15 class coming in. IL is looking pretty good on recruiting. Hawks had a point guard that looked like Fast Forward this year and struggled to get minutes. We can call it development issues and yet his own son can't shoot (terrible technique).

The main issue is Fran. OK, we await your overdone response.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Just because you can't or won't believe something doesn't make it untrue. From my post earlier I asked you what reasons you thought were appealing at this stage in the season for a guy better than Ash to sign on. You still haven't given me any.

And regarding the comparison between you (not us) and nebraska fans, it's very much apples/apples. What you have at nebraska is a fan base which expects things that are out of touch with reality and the state of their program. They're so blinded by homerism that they literally can't see what's in front of their faces.

"We're nebraska! there's no reason why we shouldn't be above .500 and make a bowl game!"

"We're Iowa! This is a Big Ten team, there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to land some decent transfers!"

Same/Same. You're following the identical logic of "I can't believe it, so it's not true."
Well, no it is not a "you" (referring to me) thing. Took a look around (and other sites) this move is being highly questioned.

Again, we are not asking for National Titles (because God knows we are not close there). But you mean to tell me things are so bad, we can't land an average guard with this scholarship?

I have given reasons before why someone would come to Iowa. And I refute some of the things you mentioned. Iowa is a Big Ten Program, has an active fan following, has had major success to point to for one point or another (we can produce a Player of the Year, our program has shown it can get to the Final Four.....unlike a Northwestern basketball program that has zero to point to.....it was a "2 seed this year"....it has been going to the NCAAs on a regular basis and has resurfaced from the Alford/Lick dark periods.

We should be able to land another Freeman, Joe T rather easily for that spot. You can't tell me a quality juco would not love the chance to play for Iowa.

I can't and won't defend this move by Fran. Good for Ash, but bad for Iowa. Ash's place is either running the scout team, or sticking to his transfer to a lower program to get more playing time.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Weren't you just trying to help someone else with their negative attitude?

The main issue is Fran. 2ndary issues are also related to most Big programs...Corn fields, small markets and so on. Even a place like Mizzou can't get traction in KC and St. Louis. Fran did find Garza, but Garza improved because of Garza and Mr. Garza.

We know Fran's weaknesses. Defense, nepotism, attitude. We hear players have his back. Those players are likely as not having a last name with M and the JB who is allowed to be at times an embarrassment in attitude (though when he does well, we accept it). Could Iowa do worse than Fran...of course. Better? As much as most any other place in the Big. Fred has a top 15 class coming in. IL is looking pretty good on recruiting. Hawks had a point guard that looked like Fast Forward this year and struggled to get minutes. We can call it development issues and yet his own son can't shoot (terrible technique).

The main issue is Fran. OK, we await your overdone response.
You're confusing negativity with reality.

And I'm not ragging on Fran. Quite the contrary. I've definitely never claimed nepotism and I like his attitude. He runs a clean program and most of his players love him.

My posts are regarding fans screaming at the top of their lungs about underperforming, when most of the factors influencing it are external.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Fran wants to roll with the players he already has. We already knew that. Guys I'm the portal are in there because they want to play. It's possible Fran was looking for a guy better than Joe T to lead the team (I hope he way) but couldn't find one. Not being able to find someone better than Joe T isn't a sign of nuclear winter. Other than that, all this means is he didn't convince a kid in the portal to come in and ride pine. Who cares about that?

Fran gave a scholarship to a walk on instead of finding a better Big 10 player to be 10th in the rotation at best. That's all that happened here. Loyal moves like this have a better chance of helping us down the road as a selling point to loyalty than it has for helping us with a random one year player who's around the same skill level as Ulis (not a knock on him. Just used him for where he's at in the rotation). If I was a parent I would think long and hard about committing to a coach who isn't trying to bring in one year players every year that are slightly better than my kid.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Iowa is a Big Ten Program, has an active fan following, has had major success to point to for one point or another (we can produce a Player of the Year, our program has shown it can get to the Final Four.....unlike a Northwestern basketball program that has zero to point to.....it was a "2 seed this year"....it has been going to the NCAAs on a regular basis and has resurfaced from the Alford/Lick dark periods.

We should be able to land another Freeman, Joe T rather easily for that spot. You can't tell me a quality juco would not love the chance to play for Iowa.
See this is exactly what I mean when I compare to nebraska.

Iowa made the Final Four in 1980. That's 40 years ago. "Our program" is in no way, shape or form related to what happened 40 years ago. A lot of parents of current NCAA players were in diapers when Iowa went to a final four.

Another Joe T??? A guy who can start in the B1G and we should be able to grab a guy like that?

A quality JUCO? That works once in a blue moon in football when you have a guy who struggles with academics, but basketball? Again, same thing...If there's a JUCO prospect out there getting D-1 looks, what is there about Iowa that he'd take it over other schools.

Look, I never said Iowa can't or won't pick someone else up out of the portal. But to say Fran is so stupid or incompetent that he is passing over guys who are willing to come play here is ludicrous. If he signs a guy Like Ash that pretty obviously means he doesn't have any better options. and like it or hate it, what are his other options at this point?

Cheat?

Get boosters to slip some money?

Talk to players behind their teams' backs to get them to leave a la Calipari/Fredrick??

Hint, hint...that's what will get recruits to come here. You can't have both unless there's something else appealing about the situation.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Weren't you just trying to help someone else with their negative attitude?

The main issue is Fran. 2ndary issues are also related to most Big programs...Corn fields, small markets and so on. Even a place like Mizzou can't get traction in KC and St. Louis. Fran did find Garza, but Garza improved because of Garza and Mr. Garza.

We know Fran's weaknesses. Defense, nepotism, attitude. We hear players have his back. Those players are likely as not having a last name with M and the JB who is allowed to be at times an embarrassment in attitude (though when he does well, we accept it). Could Iowa do worse than Fran...of course. Better? As much as most any other place in the Big. Fred has a top 15 class coming in. IL is looking pretty good on recruiting. Hawks had a point guard that looked like Fast Forward this year and struggled to get minutes. We can call it development issues and yet his own son can't shoot (terrible technique).

The main issue is Fran. OK, we await your overdone response.

View attachment 7832
Every player gets better on their own due to their work ethic. Work ethic is a trait that is looked at when recruiting. Fran brought in Luka knowing he had an Elite work ethic and players with elite work ethic improve dramatically. In my opinion, by the time you get to college, the only coaching up that can be done is x's and o's and how to be a better team player. Individual improvement is 99.9% up to the Individual.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Fran wants to roll with the players he already has. We already knew that. Guys I'm the portal are in there because they want to play. It's possible Fran was looking for a guy better than Joe T to lead the team (I hope he way) but couldn't find one. Not being able to find someone better than Joe T isn't a sign of nuclear winter. Other than that, all this means is he didn't convince a kid in the portal to come in and ride pine. Who cares about that?

Fran gave a scholarship to a walk on instead of finding a better Big 10 player to be 10th in the rotation at best. That's all that happened here. Loyal moves like this have a better chance of helping us down the road as a selling point to loyalty than it has for helping us with a random one year player who's around the same skill level as Ulis (not a knock on him. Just used him for where he's at in the rotation). If I was a parent I would think long and hard about committing to a coach who isn't trying to bring in one year players every year that are slightly better than my kid.
It is not nuclear winter, I was harsh there. Lickliter would be nuclear winter. But it is is nuclear winter for getting passed the 2nd round....if you can't recruit guards to come here.

Again, I welcome JBo back because he can at least play some quality offense (I get that, a lot don't even like that). But, instead of going to the well (the portal) to land some quality guard play, he went back to JBo.....and Ash....either because he couldn't land, or he did not want to.

That does not bother or concern you? No? The bar is being lowered.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
See this is exactly what I mean when I compare to nebraska.

Iowa made the Final Four in 1980. That's 40 years ago. "Our program" is in no way, shape or form related to what happened 40 years ago. A lot of parents of current NCAA players were in diapers when Iowa went to a final four.

Another Joe T??? A guy who can start in the B1G and we should be able to grab a guy like that?

A quality JUCO? That works once in a blue moon in football when you have a guy who struggles with academics, but basketball? Again, same thing...If there's a JUCO prospect out there getting D-1 looks, what is there about Iowa that he'd take it over other schools.

Look, I never said Iowa can't or won't pick someone else up out of the portal. But to say Fran is so stupid or incompetent that he is passing over guys who are willing to come play here is ludicrous. If he signs a guy Like Ash that pretty obviously means he doesn't have any better options. and like it or hate it, what are his other options at this point?

Cheat?

Get boosters to slip some money?

Talk to players behind their teams' backs to get them to leave a la Calipari/Fredrick??

Hint, hint...that's what will get recruits to come here. You can't have both unless there's something else appealing about the situation.
We all know it was 40 years ago. My example was we have something to point to unlike a Northwestern Basketball program. We also have an Elite 8 and several Sweet 16s in the past 40 years as well....as well as a good number of NCAA appearances. We do have things to sell to get an average player in the door at that position.

But you know what, Ash has the scholarship. I will cheer the kid on and hope for the best from him. That is all we can do at this point. It will be Fran who has to answer for his recruiting.....well probably not when Gary is your AD (gives out extensions like candy) as long as you check the right boxes.
 
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NorthKCHawk

Well-Known Member
Most of this board is WILDLY misreading this. Fran did not find the missing piece to the puzzle on his own scrapheap. Fran has the team he thinks is ready to compete next year and did not want to bring in another outside, disgruntled portal guy to mess with the team's chemistry. He absolutely had to add Flip as he did not have enough talent in the front court. One guy can be absorbed into the culture. But, if he brings in another guard, he may alienate his existing guys.

JBO was a no brainer. He is already part of the team and culture. Ash was rewarding a hard working walk on that is well liked and not a threat to the existing guys with a schollie for one season. He might get a hot minute here or there, but Fran has his team already, such that it is.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
See this is exactly what I mean when I compare to nebraska.

Iowa made the Final Four in 1980. That's 40 years ago. "Our program" is in no way, shape or form related to what happened 40 years ago. A lot of parents of current NCAA players were in diapers when Iowa went to a final four.

Another Joe T??? A guy who can start in the B1G and we should be able to grab a guy like that?

A quality JUCO? That works once in a blue moon in football when you have a guy who struggles with academics, but basketball? Again, same thing...If there's a JUCO prospect out there getting D-1 looks, what is there about Iowa that he'd take it over other schools.

Look, I never said Iowa can't or won't pick someone else up out of the portal. But to say Fran is so stupid or incompetent that he is passing over guys who are willing to come play here is ludicrous. If he signs a guy Like Ash that pretty obviously means he doesn't have any better options. and like it or hate it, what are his other options at this point?

Cheat?

Get boosters to slip some money?

Talk to players behind their teams' backs to get them to leave a la Calipari/Fredrick??

Hint, hint...that's what will get recruits to come here. You can't have both unless there's something else appealing about the situation.
Going off of what I said earlier. I think Fran could have found a warm body that was better than Ash. But he wasn't going to find one that was good enough to noticeably help the team. So at that point, why not bring back the walk on that everyone likes? I bet every single person in that locker room is happier now than they would have been if he brought in a player to compete for Ulis' spot. If you're going to cause friction on your team by bringing in a portal player, be better help your team quite a bit.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
Most of this board is WILDLY misreading this. Fran did not find the missing piece to the puzzle on his own scrapheap. Fran has the team he thinks is ready to compete next year and did not want to bring in another outside, disgruntled portal guy to mess with the team's chemistry. He absolutely had to add Flip as he did not have enough talent in the front court. One guy can be absorbed into the culture. But, if he brings in another guard, he may alienate his existing guys.

JBO was a no brainer. He is already part of the team and culture. Ash was rewarding a hard working walk on that is well liked and not a threat to the existing guys with a schollie for one season. He might get a hot minute here or there, but Fran has his team already, such that it is.
Yep.
 

PCHawk

Well-Known Member
It is not nuclear winter, I was harsh there. Lickliter would be nuclear winter. But it is is nuclear winter for getting passed the 2nd round....if you can't recruit guards to come here.

Again, I welcome JBo back because he can at least play some quality offense (I get that, a lot don't even like that). But, instead of going to the well (the portal) to land some quality guard play, he went back to JBo.....and Ash....either because he couldn't land, or he did not want to.

That does not bother or concern you? No? The bar is being lowered.
Am I concerned that Fran couldn't find a guard in the portal better than Toussaint, Ulis, and Perkins? Not at all. Do I wish he was constantly finding guards better than them? Of course.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Am I concerned that Fran couldn't find a guard in the portal better than Toussaint, Ulis, and Perkins? Not at all. Do I wish he was constantly finding guards better than them? Of course.
Coming off a 2 seed, a National Player of the Year, and Austin Ash is your placeholder for that scholarship. Doesn't move the needle at all? Not even getting a player on their level? It not shooting for the moon.

I will say this, it probably won't make a difference if we landed their equal in terms of wins and losses for his upcoming year. But, it is still not a competitive move.....unless everyone told Fran no....which I can't buy that.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Going off of what I said earlier. I think Fran could have found a warm body that was better than Ash. But he wasn't going to find one that was good enough to noticeably help the team. So at that point, why not bring back the walk on that everyone likes? I bet every single person in that locker room is happier now than they would have been if he brought in a player to compete for Ulis' spot. If you're going to cause friction on your team by bringing in a portal player, be better help your team quite a bit.
I can buy that, it would not make a difference probably wins and losses wise, but I still don't think it is a competitive move. Who knows, maybe a feel good story is more important. I don't know....I think you work harder on the recruiting trail.

It is even more of a problem that your best is Freeman, Joe T, and probably baby Ulis.
 

HaydenHawk56

Well-Known Member
Most of this board is WILDLY misreading this. Fran did not find the missing piece to the puzzle on his own scrapheap. Fran has the team he thinks is ready to compete next year and did not want to bring in another outside, disgruntled portal guy to mess with the team's chemistry. He absolutely had to add Flip as he did not have enough talent in the front court. One guy can be absorbed into the culture. But, if he brings in another guard, he may alienate his existing guys.

JBO was a no brainer. He is already part of the team and culture. Ash was rewarding a hard working walk on that is well liked and not a threat to the existing guys with a schollie for one season. He might get a hot minute here or there, but Fran has his team already, such that it is.
I can buy this take....and it still think it is problematic in the macro. Iowa really needed to use the portal to upgrade the talent level. That is not happening relative to our main competition in conference. I would be willing to role the dice and take my chances losing one of those guys if it meant our guard play is better off. Bottom line, you want the best out on the floor you can get.

But, maybe Fry is right and this is the best we can get. Then I really do think a 2nd round is the ceiling.

We can't go on long runs if we don't have competent guard play. Unless we are extremely lucky....and I do mean extreme.
 

Fryowa

Administrator
Coming off a 2 seed, a National Player of the Year, and Austin Ash is your placeholder for that scholarship. Doesn't move the needle at all? Not even getting a player on their level?
You need more than one decent year to start building up interest in a program. Especially when most of the core of that team has left or will be leaving.

And a 2 seed doesn't mean much when you get embarrassed in the second round and fizzle out of your conference tourney. Ask any former or recent Duke, UNC, Michigan, Kentucky, Villanova, etc recruit if they know what seed any of those teams were when they made the FF or title games. I guarantee you a deep tourney run by a 7 or 8 seed is way better for recruiting than a high seed followed by a nationally televised beat down.

If the Hawks can get a 2 seed three or four times in a decade you have something, but good luck with that. At that point we're back to the same circular argument.
 
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