Are the KF apologists the most hostile posters?

smoot27 said:
You want to see how they compare to KF yet you don't see how that would have failed the logic test when we hired KF in the first place. KF didn't have a great resume as a head coach. Certainly couldn't be compared to Fry, yet now you want me to play fantasy AD and pick someone out of the blue for you to compare.

Wanting a coach replaced is not playing fantasy AD. That is simply voicing disapproval as fans do when they aren't satisfied with results.
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Voice disapproval as much as you want.

I don't understand why it's too much to ask to have people rationally look at what's going on and say is it worth taking the gamble of losing guaranteed bowl games and considering we just went to a BCS game 2 years ago, shots at high level bowl games to pay two head coaches (one a lot of money) to have a small percentage shot at being a consistent BCS contender when there would be and equal or greater chance of falling even below consistent bowl contention.
 
clicheusername3 said:
Because youre demanding answers and have to give none with that argument.

It's not a bad opinion, it's a bad argument, because the KF knows best brigade can't prove that someone else couldn't come in here and do as good of a job for less money, or a better job for the same money. So I don't see how that is a "bad opinion"
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The burden of proof ain't on me. I'm not the one demanding change. You want to convince me you have to not only give change but proceed to give why change is better.
 
bcl20 said:
Voice disapproval as much as you want.

I don't understand why it's too much to ask to have people rationally look at what's going on and say is it worth taking the gamble of losing guaranteed bowl games and considering we just went to a BCS game 2 years ago, shots at high level bowl games to pay two head coaches (one a lot of money) to have a small percentage shot at being a consistent BCS contender when there would be and equal or greater chance of falling even below consistent bowl contention.
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So how did you figure out all of these chances? How do you know that this would happen. No one is saying anything is guaranteed but you, and none of what you said is guaranteed with KF or any other coach.
 
hawkfan33 said:
We'd be able to get any coordinator in the country, that's for sure. Mark Stoops, Kirby Smart, Bryan Harsin, Manny Diaz, anybody. Hell, ISU got Gene Chizek when he was the top assistant in the country. We're a much better program throwing top five cash at a head coach. People need to stop thinking we'd have a hard time filling this job, we'd have more than enough qualified candidates.
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We wouldn't be able to throw top 5 cash at anybody. We have another coach to pay. Plus why would those coaches be better than Ferentz? (I assume they would be better otherwise it'd be a worthless and even more expensive investment).
 
bcl20 said:
The burden of proof ain't on me. I'm not the one demanding change. You want to convince me you have to not only give change but proceed to give why change is better.
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Classic. The "burden of proof argument". There is no burden of proof, this is college football, and a message board.
 
clicheusername3 said:
So how did you figure out all of these chances? How do you know that this would happen. No one is saying anything is guaranteed but you, and none of what you said is guaranteed with KF or any other coach.
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Of course none of it is guaranteed but at this time, based upon the history of the program and Ferentz's history (he has at worse 6 win seasons and at best BCS games and been in contention for 2 national championships), I am safe with the known as opposed to the unknown mainly because the best would have to come in and be a consistent BCS, Big Ten Championship team. Something no school in the Big Ten has accomplished aside from Michigan and OSU, and something no Iowa team has ever come close to accomplishing.
 
bcl20 - we'll just have to agree to disagree. We all hope this team gets turned around with the current staff. I may be more doubtful than you, but we accomplish nothing by arguing further.
 
bcl20 said:
We wouldn't be able to throw top 5 cash at anybody. We have another coach to pay. Plus why would those coaches be better than Ferentz? (I assume they would be better otherwise it'd be a worthless and even more expensive investment).
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Of course we would, we're not going to fire Ferentz and hand the job to some nobody for $1M. If we're getting rid of Ferentz we're going to spend major cash on the next coach. We're one of the richest athletic depts in the country, we ain't talking about ISU here.

And all those coaches would be better than Ferentz because they have lots of major college experience. Ferentz had none and look at what he's been able to do. (See if you can make up stupid arguments about why they can't possible be better, I can make the reverse arguments too.)
 
clicheusername3 said:
Classic. The "burden of proof argument". There is no burden of proof, this is college football, and a message board.
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Of course not, so there isn't really need to have any discussion or argument so why carry on? Why care? Why respond to anything I say?

But, in most times in life, change doesn't usually happen unless there is a strong argument supporting such change.
 
hawkfan33 said:
Of course we would, we're not going to fire Ferentz and hand the job to some nobody for $1M. If we're getting rid of Ferentz we're going to spend major cash on the next coach. We're one of the richest athletic depts in the country, we ain't talking about ISU here.

And all those coaches would be better than Ferentz because they have lots of major college experience. Ferentz had none and look at what he's been able to do. (See if you can make up stupid arguments about why they can't possible be better, I can make the reverse arguments too.)
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I never said they couldn't possibly be better. I said it's not a risk worth taking at this time.
 
bcl20 said:
1-2 more seasons like this year. That would show me that Ferentz probably can't get us to BCS level again.
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There's not a great history of coaches pushing 60 suddenly turning around a program once it starts to slip. We've already fallen out of the top tier in the B10 and are barely hanging onto the middle tier, hopefully we haven't been passed by the Minnesota's and Illinois's by the time we make a change.
 
hawkfan33 said:
There's not a great history of coaches pushing 60 suddenly turning around a program once it starts to slip. We've already fallen out of the top tier in the B10 and are barely hanging onto the middle tier, hopefully we haven't been passed by the Minnesota's and Illinois's by the time we make a change.
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How great of history is there of coaches being good enough to make it to their 60's? We just won the Orange Bowl 2 years ago and Kirk has had good success with a fairly high floor. I don't think it's too hard to see my point of view, I see a coach with good success with a high floor and I think there is reason to hang on to that especially considering the large buyout.
 
bcl20 said:
How great of history is there of coaches being good enough to make it to their 60's? We just won the Orange Bowl 2 years ago and Kirk has had good success with a fairly high floor. I don't think it's too hard to see my point of view, I see a coach with good success with a high floor and I think there is reason to hang on to that especially considering the large buyout.
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Is six wins a year really a high floor? And it's great that he's made it here as long as he has, he was once a really good, hungry, aggressive coach. And he got rewarded for it. But at some point he's not going to be able to live off of his early 2000's teams anymore. Watching a rerun of a game from the '02-04 seasons and I don't even recognize that coach anymore. He's just become complacent and I don't see it turning around. Coaching is a rough business, it takes a huge toll on you and is ruthlessly competitive, your not going to be able to maintain that hunger and desire to win all the time. And once you start to lose it, well you might never get it back.
 
To the OP ... I think you are spot on in everything you wrote. And, agree it is easier for some to simply to make a sarcastic response and keep the blinders on ...
 
OUTofTOWNHAWK said:
Last year was not a rebuilding year.....
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Yeah, you are probably correct, all we had to do was replace a couple of linebackers, Angerer and Edds. How did it work out without them this year.....I am too polite to mention last year.....

Remember Amari Spivey in the defensive backfield, probably could have used him last year also.....

Remember Bryan Bulaga, his loss was certainly felt.....

Ever hear of Tony Moeaki, haven't replaced him yet.....

Eubanks, Doering, Dace Richardson.....

It certainly was a rebuilding year, remember the problems at the linebacker positions last year, we were somewhat flaccid at that position and every team took advantage of that fact.....

The only people who thought we were a top ten team were somewhat unrealistic. That goes without saying.....

How does the Kool Aid taste now.....

:D
 
ChosenChildren said:
Golfer, you are coming on pretty strong. Just one hypothetical question: Assume you get your obvious desire, and Ferentz is fired.

Who do you think would take the Iowa job after a coach who has won almost 70% of his games the last 10 years has been fired? Who would take the job?

I know you are a tremendous football expert, so I am really looking forward to your intellligent, insightful analysis.
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This is a false paradigm. You can affect change without firing the head coach. At PSU the head coach ran the administration. We don't need that at Iowa; we saw how that turned out.
 
hawkfan33 said:
Is six wins a year really a high floor? And it's great that he's made it here as long as he has, he was once a really good, hungry, aggressive coach. And he got rewarded for it. But at some point he's not going to be able to live off of his early 2000's teams anymore. Watching a rerun of a game from the '02-04 seasons and I don't even recognize that coach anymore. He's just become complacent and I don't see it turning around. Coaching is a rough business, it takes a huge toll on you and is ruthlessly competitive, your not going to be able to maintain that hunger and desire to win all the time. And once you start to lose it, well you might never get it back.
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I think 6 wins as a floor (as in worse you will see) is fine though doing that consistently is not acceptable.

I think people are seeing me as an unconditional Ferentz supporter. I'm not at all and in fact I was on the fire Ferentz bandwagon at the beginning of 08 when he played JC over Stanzi against Pitt. He won me back by fishing the year the way he did and the next year, for the most part. I also felt he put making a point over winning. I also though his management of the end of the OSU game in 09 were terrible but I digress.

The reason I say keep him for now and am not up in arms like many is because I objectively see a coach who has proven to be successful here and has done so in a recent season and I compare him with someone else who has proven nothing and I say, I like the guy with a track record. For now.

Does that mean if someone like Bielema or Urban Meyer or someone like that came knocking I'd say no? Absolutely not. If someone I hadn't heard of or did not know much about came up to Barta with a great plan that I agreed with and I felt would win us a lot of games, I would listen to that too.
 
I think it has been pretty well established that when a person has no valid points to make he will revert to personal attacks. That's life always has been that way and always will be that way.
 
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