Are the KF apologists the most hostile posters?

[Golfer]

It's fairly obvious that there are more than a few degrees of separation between the examples you alluded to. Besides, I admitted in previous posts that I'm responsible for much of the bad behavior I'm pointing out, so you are wasting your time in attempting to prove a point I've already conceded to before you even entered the conversation. The original intent of my post was referencing the persistant attempts to marginalize with sarcasm, personal attacks, other, any post that appears critical of the coaching staff of the team's direction. Rather than engage the content of the post itself, the replies are directed towards the individual. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm now laughing. Fans -v- true believers. Also, those that can not stay on topic (of which I am guilty of also).

 

[smoot27]

I never thought it was. Being called hostile for posting "and another one jumps off the bandwagon" in response to someone saying they were through with Iowa football, is.

We are all hostile to a degree in these debates on coaching, hence the most hostile posters phrase used. I'm also not sure how pointing something out is in itself openly hostile. That doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Golfer]

I'm now laughing even more. Come one. Next post. This is great. I'm forgetting about how I, as a donor, don't help pay for stadium improvements and the coaches salaries.

 

[smoot27]

I'm now laughing even more. Come one. Next post. This is great. I'm forgetting about how I, as a donor, don't help pay for stadium improvements and the coaches salaries.

Oh golfer, we are entertaining you too easily tonight my friend. I have to run and try to finish hanging lights outside if I can still see what I'm doing. Hopefully I don't burn the place down.

 

[Golfer]

That's all right smoot. Some don't want to hear from you and I anyway. Cuz we don't understand that "it's good enough.", and we're not real fans. And we're Johnny come latelies (sic?, plural I think) and everything else.

 

[FalseMirage]

The truth is that KF is the coach; he's ultra-conservative; his contract makes it extremely unlikely that he will leave until he's ready to; and all the gnashing of teeth will change nothing.

 

[smoot27]

The truth is that KF is the coach; he's ultra-conservative; his contract makes it extremely unlikely that he will leave until he's ready to; and all the gnashing of teeth will change nothing.

You could say the same about any President mid-term without expectations they will be gone until at least after the next election. That doesn't mean the criticism is irrelevant or should be muted.

Besides, little to nothing is gained by posting on a message board. We do so for discussion purposes between fans of the same team. If any place is right for stating such things, it's on here. This isn't any different than water cooler talk at the office.

 

[alexzelada]

Reading through the posts that criticize KF's coaching decisions, you immediately find several posts with sarcastic and spiteful replies such as:

"did not read"

"another one off the bandwagon"

"I wish you two were coaching the games."

"I guess I am an expert on girl's field hockey. I mean, if I watch it on TV, then obviously I am just as qualified to coach the team as anyone."

"Yadda yadda blah blah" (My favorite)

"maybe you should start picketing Kinnick Stadium demanding KF be fired."

"go be a clown fan"

Is it not ok to voice frustration with the coaching staff without being labeled a clown or worse if there is such thing? It seems that if we don't accept our marching orders, get in line and call ourselves sheeple, we are lambasted on the board.

I don't want KF fired and it is way too premature to think otherwise. That said, since 2004, we have regularly lost or played to the level of some very bad teams. I think the criticism of the coaching and playcalling is justified and has its place on this forum. If you disagree, feel free to debate otherwise. I'll be the first to admit that some of these posts criticizing the coaching are extreme and in bad taste (including some of my own) but we should start trying to have more substantive debates on these topics rather than only resorting to insults and sarcasm. What frustrates me more than anything, is this idea that if I criticize an element of the team, I am less of a fan for doing so. It's because I'm very much a fan of the team and want to see the best every game.

I don't mind fans sticking up for him. But as you pointed out in your post. They don't try and argue why their point of view is correct. They just have teenage insults and condescension - which in their mind is the same thing as debating.

 

[Golfer]

I'm laughing once again. Some do as they're told, and most are followers, not leaders.

 

[bcl20]

On the flip side of this, public accepted opinion is that Ferentz is a great coach so the burden of proof is on those that don't agree thus they are more likely to bring data and what not to the table when discussing things of this nature.

 

[Golfer]

On the flip side of this, public accepted opinion is that Ferentz is a great coach so the burden of proof is on those that don't agree thus they are more likely to bring data and what not to the table when discussing things of this nature.

Some very public things about him being the most overpaid coach in the country also.

Just saying. Google it. Not fringe message boards, but some serious sportswriters have said this.

 

[jacknicholson]

Some very public things about him being the most overpaid coach in the country also.

Just saying. Google it. Not fringe message boards, but some serious sportswriters have said this.

So how do you feel about having KF as our football coach.....

 

[Golfer]

So how do you feel about having KF as our football coach.....

.

Thanks for asking. I'm disappointed right now, and I think we need some change, but not ready to go to the extreme of change at the top quite yet.

I'd be happy with change in the AD, and the dysfunctional deference to those fans who contribute nothing. I'm not going to get into a long explanation about this.

Parker can't recruit due to health issues. I'm sorry to see him go before Kok, who probably needs to think about going. Kok can't recruit due to lack of imagination.

Assistants are a full time position, and we do not have some on staff that are full time right now.

The AD does nothing, and is mostly powerless right now.

Some at the U of I Foundation aren't happy, but they have little say.

Sally Mason is 100% on board for whatever Kirk wants.

I could get into more detail, but knowing how the sausage is really made, upsets me horribly, especially after yesterday.

 

[bcl20]

Some very public things about him being the most overpaid coach in the country also.

Just saying. Google it. Not fringe message boards, but some serious sportswriters have said this.

I'm discussing Ferentz's coaching ability which has nothing to do with his salary.

 

[smoot27]

On the flip side of this, public accepted opinion is that Ferentz is a great coach so the burden of proof is on those that don't agree thus they are more likely to bring data and what not to the table when discussing things of this nature.

I don't think anyone is arguing that KF had a great run and was considered a great coach nearly unanimously at one point. Bobby Bowden was a championship level coach at one time. I'm not sure you're still in the overwhelming majority that believe he is still producing those same results that led him to be considered in that upper echelon. I still remember the dismay many Iowa fans exhibited when an ESPN article of top ten coaches a few years back excluded KF, who was once a regular on these. KF has only produced top 25 teams twice in the last seven years. I think the burden of proof is being met with articles like Rob Howe's recent analysis and this statistical review courtesy of BHGP: Kirk Ferentz and the Myth of the Percentages - Black Heart Gold Pants

The reality is, outside of Iowa, KF isn't regarded as elite anymore. From 2002-2005 he was contacted routinely by NFL teams regarding openings. I specifically remember the panic from many on here as he met with a few of these. Other than a few muffled calls for him at an endangered PSU program and a rumor that he could join his friend Pioli in KC, you don't hear much on this front anymore.

 

[bcl20]

My belief is that Ferentz is a good however not elite coach as a great coach would not have had a team that lost to the Minnesota team we lost to this year.

 

[Golfer]

I'm discussing Ferentz's coaching ability which has nothing to do with his salary.

.

I'm not taking sides, but I believe that his salary, and ability (I prefer success) aren't mutually exclusive, and should be closely tied together.

I'll go further. I'm judged based on results, not intentions. I judge others on performance Substitute ability for intentions. Substitute performance for results.

The sportswriters to whom I referred, are basing their salary argument on performance.

It is maybe good when one is young to hear comments like "he's got potential." Not so much when one grows older. Potential isn't tangible.

Ability is tangible, and is usually proven with results.

 

[ChosenChildren]

Boy, it really takes a lot of courage to post on an anonymous, free basis. Yeah, speak your mind. Rip away. Trash the coaches. Demand a new coach. I really respect the negative posts. Terrific job.

I'm betting 99% of these negative posts don't even go to the games.

Bottom line:

1. Ferentz is a good coach and a better human being. He does charitable work. He gives of his time to the community. He gives back to the U.
2. His kids graduate and many go to the NFL.
3. This will be the 11th consecutive season that we are bowl-eligible.
4. He has won 3 consecutive bowl games and has a chance for a 4th. No other Iowa coach has ever done that.
5. He defeated Michigan for the third consecutive time this year. No other Iowa coach has ever done that.
6. Iowa has not had a losing regular season record for 11 consecutive seasons. No other Iowa coach has ever achieved that feat.
7. Phil Steele in his publication noted that Iowa had the fewest returning starters in the Big Ten this season, and one of the fewest number of returning starters in the country. Yet, we have a winning season and go to a bowl game...again.
8.Iowa was 6-1 at home, including a win over a BCS team (Michigan) and the greatest rally in Iowa football history (over Pitt). This was done with a first year QB.
9. 4 of Iowa's 5 losses were to teams currently ranked in the Sagarin Top 29.
10. Ferentz's overall winning percentage is equal to Hayden Fry's. Ferentz eventually will be the winningest coach in Iowa football history (if he stays)

This was a good season. Good, not great.

In reading this board, you would have thought this team had gone 2-10.

I really don't get it. Sorry to be so hostile and unreasonable.

 

[jacknicholson]

.

Thanks for asking. I'm disappointed right now, and I think we need some change, but not ready to go to the extreme of change at the top quite yet.

I'd be happy with change in the AD, and the dysfunctional deference to those fans who contribute nothing. I'm not going to get into a long explanation about this.

Parker can't recruit due to health issues. I'm sorry to see him go before Kok, who probably needs to think about going. Kok can't recruit due to lack of imagination.

Assistants are a full time position, and we do not have some on staff that are full time right now.

The AD does nothing, and is mostly powerless right now.

Some at the U of I Foundation aren't happy, but they have little say.

Sally Mason is 100% on board for whatever Kirk wants.

I could get into more detail, but knowing how the sausage is really made, upsets me horribly, especially after yesterday.

Thanks.....

I also like KF and see no need to replace him at this point. Even if I did, it wouldn't matter, but it might be time for Norm to retire while he still has his health.....

Doesn't look like KOK is going away voluntarily right now. Wouldn't mind him opening things up a bit if the personnel is there.....

 

[bcl20]

.

I'm not taking sides, but I believe that his salary, and ability (I prefer success) aren't mutually exclusive, and should be closely tied together.

I'll go further. I'm judged based on results, not intentions. I judge others on performance Substitute ability for intentions. Substitute performance for results.

The sportswriters to whom I referred, are basing their salary argument on performance.

It is maybe good when one is young to hear comments like "he's got potential." Not so much when one grows older. Potential isn't tangible.

Ability is tangible, and is usually proven with results.

Too me salary is more reflective of a mistake by administration (in college sports) or front office (pro sports). If people are offered more money they won't turn it down.

There are great coaches who get paid nothing and bad coaches who make a lot of money in all sports thus I see no reason you should look at a coaches salary when deciding his ability.

Taking it even further, payroll isn't as big of a factor in college sports as it is in pro sports so I see even less reason to get too worked up over the money factor. I think what happens is they see a guy who isn't winning, who makes a lot more money then them anyways and they get mad. Understandable but it makes it harder to objectively analyze the ability of said person.

P.S, I hope all of this makes sense as I am enjoying some holiday booze.