Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
Wow.... the stupidity in this thread is awesome!!!! Why don't you throw Benny B and Larson in there while you're at it.
Archie and Brommer
- Thread starter hawkIhoops
- Start date
Wow.... the stupidity in this thread is awesome!!!! Why don't you throw Benny B and Larson in there while you're at it.
DuffMan
Well-Known Member
only a fool would hang that on fran.
hawkeye12345
Well-Known Member
That's just dumb. Fuller was gone before Fran arrived and its widely rumored that there would have been even more defections had Lick been retained.
Fran is following a very similar path to Tom Crean. The fans the coaches and the players don't like the short term results but give it 3 or 4 years (2 more technically) and Fran will have the players on the roster that fit his style and then and only then can we really base an opinion on whether he will make it or not.
A top 25 recruiting class coming in plus White, Oglesby, Basabe and Cartwright are all ballers - and Fran recruits. I would say he's got a pretty good start on where he would like to take the program.
Unfortunately he's got players on the team that don't fit his style and quite frankly aren't very good to begin with. He could have gone JUCO route, he tried it didn't work, he tried to land better players to help this year, they didn't come, but honestly what would you expect? We've been terrible - F'ing terrible - for the better part of a decade.
See, here's the funny thing about Hawk fans. They talk about all the attrition over the last few years and then make a claim that it has miraculously stopped.
But let's actually look at the facts.
Lick gets hired and Tyler Smith transfers. Then after his first year coaching Tony Freeman leaves.
Fran comes in and Aaron Fuller transfers, then after his first season Cully Payne leaves.
Beyond that, Fran has lost Hubbard, but that would be balanced out by Tucker by Christmas.
So, at this point Lick and Fran would be even, but don't let facts confuse you.
But let's actually look at the facts.
Lick gets hired and Tyler Smith transfers. Then after his first year coaching Tony Freeman leaves.
Fran comes in and Aaron Fuller transfers, then after his first season Cully Payne leaves.
Beyond that, Fran has lost Hubbard, but that would be balanced out by Tucker by Christmas.
So, at this point Lick and Fran would be even, but don't let facts confuse you.
hawkeye12345
Well-Known Member
Confuse facts?
Tyler Smith was gone. Every single person that had even limited information to the Iowa program knew the kid was leaving. He talked about it even before winter break but was talked out of transferring at that point.
Lick told Freeman that he didn't like the way he played and that he (freeman) needed to play the way Lick wanted or he could see himself out the door. Freeman left. That one is squarely on Lick.
Fuller was going to transfer if Lick was retained and he was gone before Fran arrived. Again - this one is on Lick and there was nothing that Fran could have done.
Cully Payne got hurt after being the starter. He saw what was ahead of him - Cartwright - and knew he wasn't going to be the starter so he moved closer to home.
Tyler Smith was gone. Every single person that had even limited information to the Iowa program knew the kid was leaving. He talked about it even before winter break but was talked out of transferring at that point.
Lick told Freeman that he didn't like the way he played and that he (freeman) needed to play the way Lick wanted or he could see himself out the door. Freeman left. That one is squarely on Lick.
Fuller was going to transfer if Lick was retained and he was gone before Fran arrived. Again - this one is on Lick and there was nothing that Fran could have done.
Cully Payne got hurt after being the starter. He saw what was ahead of him - Cartwright - and knew he wasn't going to be the starter so he moved closer to home.
Tmoney12
Well-Known Member
We would bring Payne to ever team we played, pry go undefeated.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
Do you honestly believe that those two are on Fran?
If you do it will give me a good idea of your intelligence and I have had a strong opinion of that from day one of joining this forum.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
Well, you answered my previous post with this one and have confirmed all my thoughts...
Here is the thing, Smith was gone, it didn't matter if SA was there or Lickliter...
Fuller all but made up his mind after his freshman season to transfer, but delayed it one year...his bad and all on Lickliter
Payne had competition and was not going to start...shocking that he left...can you pick up the sarcasm?
Don't even throw Hubbard out there as he never played a game...to me his leaving has no bearing on Iowa, maybe for today, but they still would not be that much better with him. The stop-gap that he would have provided would have no long term effect on Iowa. Maybe I am wrong, but did he even attend any classes?
Iowa is working through at least a decade of turmoil and Fran has stabilized the program. If there are any mass exodus off-seasons then you can talk, until then don't bring up players that Fran had nothing to do with as the damage was done, a player that didn't want to compete with a player in front of him. The Hubbard situation just blew up, but with all the homework that was done on him, it was surprising to see it end so abruptly. The damage really is minimal and actually opened up a scholarship to recruit a better player is the way I look at it. Had he played and had a monster season and then left, it would have been much worse.
You made my point.
Freeman left because Lick made it obvious he wanted to go in another direction. Cully left because Fran did the same thing.
Both guys were basically informed they wouldn't be running the show the next year.
Hubbard and Tucker are basically the same. Each was a wasted scholarship offer that meant a roster spot was not filled and that basically never contributed. Just Tucker lasted a little longer.
But keep trying to rationalize your position, it is entertaining.
Freeman left because Lick made it obvious he wanted to go in another direction. Cully left because Fran did the same thing.
Both guys were basically informed they wouldn't be running the show the next year.
Hubbard and Tucker are basically the same. Each was a wasted scholarship offer that meant a roster spot was not filled and that basically never contributed. Just Tucker lasted a little longer.
But keep trying to rationalize your position, it is entertaining.
sportstalent
Well-Known Member
How do you base your Payne assumption that he was asked to leave by Fran when Brommer, May and Archie are still on the roster...hey you might as well throw Cougill in there as well, Fran probably told him to not go to class too so he would not come back...
Hubbard and Tucker are not the same...not sure how you can compare the two when Hubbard never played for Iowa...ever.
Have a nice day.
wrong on Cully he was the starter when he got hurt, he got a Medical red shirt
Cartwright was brought in to be his backup,
when it became apparent that he was going to keep the starting PG
Cully left not only that but Cully was going to be a sophamore while Cartwright was a senior and would have his Jr and Sr year to start
Cullies leaving when he did left Fran short handed and scrambling at the last minute to find somebody
in my talking to people that are in the media that cover hawk sports the word is part of Fran being hired was to stop the players leaving, no running off players
he tried very hard to keep Fuller from leaving
but Fuller had made up his mind to leave
Culley's leaving blindsided everyone
as for Brust and Larson he very much wanted them to stay, but he ended up giving then a unconditional release from their LOI
you really think a 6'10 player and a sharpshooter couldn't have helped this team
but both got caught up in the success of the other school
neither had been highly recruited in the fall
Lick leaving allowed other programs get involved and was the perfect excuse to leave
Fran made a mistake in giving Brust him that kind of release
if Lick had stayed Gatens and May would have left as well as Fuller
this is what i was told by people who actually cover Iowa sports and is not me talking
Cartwright was brought in to be his backup,
when it became apparent that he was going to keep the starting PG
Cully left not only that but Cully was going to be a sophamore while Cartwright was a senior and would have his Jr and Sr year to start
Cullies leaving when he did left Fran short handed and scrambling at the last minute to find somebody
in my talking to people that are in the media that cover hawk sports the word is part of Fran being hired was to stop the players leaving, no running off players
he tried very hard to keep Fuller from leaving
but Fuller had made up his mind to leave
Culley's leaving blindsided everyone
as for Brust and Larson he very much wanted them to stay, but he ended up giving then a unconditional release from their LOI
you really think a 6'10 player and a sharpshooter couldn't have helped this team
but both got caught up in the success of the other school
neither had been highly recruited in the fall
Lick leaving allowed other programs get involved and was the perfect excuse to leave
Fran made a mistake in giving Brust him that kind of release
if Lick had stayed Gatens and May would have left as well as Fuller
this is what i was told by people who actually cover Iowa sports and is not me talking
MinnHawk01
Well-Known Member
H1-5 making sense. CaarHawk... Not so much.
I'm thinking that Brommer can still make some contribution the rest of the year in certain situations / match ups. I've totally written off Archie.
Obviously neither are a B1G recruit.
They both can make a contribution at this point by graduating and helping the APR.
I'm thinking that Brommer can still make some contribution the rest of the year in certain situations / match ups. I've totally written off Archie.
Obviously neither are a B1G recruit.
They both can make a contribution at this point by graduating and helping the APR.
greghammel
Well-Known Member
Jake Kelly
Igothawked
Well-Known Member
Jake Kelly, David Palmer, Jermaine (i think was his 1st name) Davis. To compare the departures under Fran and Lick is stupid and wrong. Not to mention it was widely known/believed that Gatens and May were gone if Lick stayed and possibly others.
I believe Petterson transferred the same year. The day Fran has 4 transfers in 1 year i will say they are the same
