Anyone hear Hawk Talk tonight?

[IAJay]

I don't think anyone will disagree with you when you say we don't have the horses right now. I do disagree with the thought that we wont be more athletic in the future. Fuller is going to continue to improve, May is atheltic and once he improves his dribble drive will have more opporunity to showcase it, I havent seen it but Archie is supposed to be athletic, Larson, Marble, and Burst all sound like they have potential.

Bottom line is I don't buy the "we are never going to improve athletically argument".

The thing is that in this "system" the most important thing is to have athletic guards. Sure having athletic forwards can help, but it is much easier to get by with a Cougill than it is a Payne or Gatens as the primary drivers. This class as of now does not bring the quick guards who can get this done. Brust seems to score most of his points on fast break threes, do you really see him doing this under Lick in the Big Ten? I sure as hell don't.

It is like this team is full of incomplete players who if you mixed them all together they could be extremely good, but that is also the reason why they weren't recruited by any other high major teams.

And when I say this, yes I understand that Payne and Gatens can create against an Indiana, but they have shown time and time again that they struggle to do this against a Purdue or even a Minnesota. It is like people lower the bar every season so that they can claim progress the next season even though it is fools gold.

 

[DuffMan]

I think you are spot on and agree with much of what you say. I guess I see as Burst and Marble both as having the potential to create off the drive. I also think that is one area that Eric May will really work on this year (as well as his shooting). Time will tell if the current players with a couple of new guys can get the job done.

 

[tm3308]

HA! Well done sir!

I was pretty sure LBJ was talking about Walter Lippmann, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[tm3308]

I think you are spot on and agree with much of what you say. I guess I see as Burst and Marble both as having the potential to create off the drive. I also think that is one area that Eric May will really work on this year (as well as his shooting). Time will tell if the current players with a couple of new guys can get the job done.

That's the way I see it, as well. It seems that a lot of people don't think the players we have are going to get any better in the future. Cully is a FRESHMAN, he's going to make mistakes, and in greater numbers against teams like Purdue and MSU. That's just a fact. But he's not going to make those mistakes for the rest of his career. Gatens may have peaked by now. May has a lot more potential than anyone besides maybe Fuller on the roster. When Evan Turner tells you that if you "keep working on your ball-handling, and you'll be a star in this league", that probably means you've got a lot of talent. The guys we have will get better, and the freshman coming in will give us more depth, as well as Archie.

And the whole argument about how we don't have NBA-in-waiting players the way Wisky always does: um....that's nothing new folks. Is Reggie Evans the only player under Alford to play extensively in the NBA? I thought Haluska was there for awhile (maybe with the Rockets?), but was sent down to the D-League. Horner is in the D-League. And that's pretty much it. So it's not like this is something that Lick brought on us.

 

[DuffMan]

Didn't you get the memo? Reggie Evans is to be referred to as "The Nut Grabber" on this board. No exceptions.

 

[tm3308]

Didn't you get the memo? Reggie Evans is to be referred to as "The Nut Grabber" on this board. No exceptions.

Sorry lol, I must have missed it. Haven't been here for too long, and nobody's talked about him since I joined. But I'll keep it in mind haha.

 

[JHHawk]

That's the way I see it, as well. It seems that a lot of people don't think the players we have are going to get any better in the future. Cully is a FRESHMAN, he's going to make mistakes, and in greater numbers against teams like Purdue and MSU. That's just a fact. But he's not going to make those mistakes for the rest of his career. Gatens may have peaked by now. May has a lot more potential than anyone besides maybe Fuller on the roster. When Evan Turner tells you that if you "keep working on your ball-handling, and you'll be a star in this league", that probably means you've got a lot of talent. The guys we have will get better, and the freshman coming in will give us more depth, as well as Archie.

And the whole argument about how we don't have NBA-in-waiting players the way Wisky always does: um....that's nothing new folks. Is Reggie Evans the only player under Alford to play extensively in the NBA? I thought Haluska was there for awhile (maybe with the Rockets?), but was sent down to the D-League. Horner is in the D-League. And that's pretty much it. So it's not like this is something that Lick brought on us.

Should we not be attempting to improve our recruiting? Is there some law that says Iowa shall not get pro quality recruits,euro or NBA?
This is not about simply besting SA's record at Iowa, it is about winning titles and going deep in the tourny,right? I liked to think that Barta's goal was to improve our program,as he did give that ultimatum to SA in 07 that he had to get better.

Will Cully make less mistakes? yes,I hope so. But sometimes mistakes are not mental, they are physical..that goes for everyone on our team. Phyiscal dominance is not easy to overcome with experience. Cully could be a senior this year and he would not be able to guard Turner....or breakdown OSU off the dribble and finish over lauderdale. He will make better decisions,but if it was all about the mental aspects, the Ivy league would dominate the NCAA tourny.

 

[tm3308]

Should we not be attempting to improve our recruiting? Is there some law that says Iowa shall not get pro quality recruits,euro or NBA?
This is not about simply besting SA's record at Iowa, it is about winning titles and going deep in the tourny,right? I liked to think that Barta's goal was to improve our program,as he did give that ultimatum to SA in 07 that he had to get better.

Will Cully make less mistakes? yes,I hope so. But sometimes mistakes are not mental, they are physical..that goes for everyone on our team. Phyiscal dominance is not easy to overcome with experience. Cully could be a senior this year and he would not be able to guard Turner....or breakdown OSU off the dribble and finish over lauderdale. He will make better decisions,but if it was all about the mental aspects, the Ivy league would dominate the NCAA tourny.

The difference between us is that I think Cully is good enough physically to be a good PG in the Big Ten. He's got some athleticism, he's as gutty a kid I've ever seen, and we do agree that he will make better decisions.

These guys are going to get better. Their games will improve, as I don't see any of them being lazy in the offseason. Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.

 

[IowaFanSince82]

I long for the day when we don't have people trying to compare our style with Wisconsin's. There's a difference between running a disciplined half-court offense with opportunistic breaks than deliberately passing the ball around the perimeter with useless high ball screens and then chucking up a 3 as the shot clock is expiring.

Wisconsin always have penetrating guards and constant motion within their offense. Their guards play on a string and they utilize their inside-out game effectively. And while they do have high ball screens, they do it to create mismatches rather than to simply get a ball handler space. They get out and run when they have the numbers. And they are effective at secondary breaks as well.

If you like Lick's style of ball, that's fine. But like it for what it is and not for what you are trying to pretend it's going to be.

agree 100%

Licks style of offense is passing it around and looking for a 3pointer. Wisconsin offense is built off penetration and also setting up screens away from the ball. Wisconsin runs a very loose version of the "FLEX" offense, where they are spread out and they do a lot of back door cuts and screens away from the ball in order to free a shooter up.

They also switch their offense up every possession, sometimes they will run the flex, sometimes they run an up-tempo style of offense, sometimes they run whatever they wan.

Licks is the same every possession. Ball screen, ball screen, ball screen, chuck up a 3pointer. Have we ever tried going back-door on a cut? Have we ever tried an alley-oop play? Hell have we ever even tried a FULL COURT PRESS? It is very boring and down right pathetic. I do not know how he became coach of the year, this offense of style is used more in the YMCA leagues, than in college basketball.

 

[JHHawk]

Why do you assume that the talent in the Big Ten does not work hard? You ever see that hill that Bo Ryan has his players run up till they puke? You think Izzo lets his guys slack off in the offseason? Or Matta, or tubby?...

Talent that works hard beats lesser talent that works hard....that is capitalism.

 

[tm3308]

Why do you assume that the talent in the Big Ten does not work hard? You ever see that hill that Bo Ryan has his players run up till they puke? You think Izzo lets his guys slack off in the offseason? Or Matta, or tubby?...

Talent that works hard beats lesser talent that works hard....that is capitalism.

I'm not saying they all get lazy. But I feel like we've got guys with more heart and determination in them than just about anyone else.

But if that's the case, and there's never going to be any hope, let's just stop caring completely. Stop talking about it, there's no point to it all. Let's just go home and watch hockey and wrestling all winter, because Iowa basketball will never be good again (I'd have to imagine people thought the same thing with Iowa football before Fry, and again after Ferentz's first two seasons.)

 

[HawkeyeMike23]

I'm not saying they all get lazy. But I feel like we've got guys with more heart and determination in them than just about anyone else.

But if that's the case, and there's never going to be any hope, let's just stop caring completely. Stop talking about it, there's no point to it all. Let's just go home and watch hockey and wrestling all winter, because Iowa basketball will never be good again (I'd have to imagine people thought the same thing with Iowa football before Fry, and again after Ferentz's first two seasons.)

So despite leading the Big 10 in "heart and determination" we're going to finish second to last in the league. Maybe Lickliter should start focusing more on talent and less on intangibles then when it comes to recruiting.

And by the end of year two of Ferentz' s the Hawks were 3-5 in the B10 and the improvement was pretty evident.

 

[ICHAWK]

I'm not saying they all get lazy. But I feel like we've got guys with more heart and determination in them than just about anyone else.

But if that's the case, and there's never going to be any hope, let's just stop caring completely. Stop talking about it, there's no point to it all. Let's just go home and watch hockey and wrestling all winter, because Iowa basketball will never be good again (I'd have to imagine people thought the same thing with Iowa football before Fry, and again after Ferentz's first two seasons.)

I never like to try to assume Iowa has players with more heart. We are just more familiar with and attached to Iowa players.

I don't know I could ever say Iowa players play harder than other players, as it's pretty much impossible to test that theory.

I think Iowa needs a perimiter player who is a play maker. They don't have anyone who is a play maker right now. Lots of times people think the PG needs to be the play maker but in Licks system the PG really just needs to be the best ball handeler in that he needs to be able to break a press. The issue Iowa has is Gatens, Payne, and May are not really play makers. They can not consistently go to their left or right and create stuff nearly enough, hence you get the stagenet offense when the ball keeps getting passed around the perimeter.

There is hope. Iowa has pieces but they need a complete play maker added to the roster asap.

 

[tmurph2643]

HA! Well done sir!

Did Tommy lobby for Marvin McNutt to join the basketball team? or has he given up on that?

 

[burky247]

Saying that Iowa plays with more heart is like saying you have the most beautiful wife on the planet.

 

[berniend]

Did Tommy lobby for Marvin McNutt to join the basketball team? or has he given up on that?

Tommy is my idea of a " fair weather fan " . He always has all the answers. He'll be trying to jump back on the bandwagon next year !

 

[hawkeye12345]

I'm not saying they all get lazy. But I feel like we've got guys with more heart and determination in them than just about anyone else.

But if that's the case, and there's never going to be any hope, let's just stop caring completely. Stop talking about it, there's no point to it all. Let's just go home and watch hockey and wrestling all winter, because Iowa basketball will never be good again (I'd have to imagine people thought the same thing with Iowa football before Fry, and again after Ferentz's first two seasons.)

Nobody is giving up hope on IOWA BASKETBALL. Most have given up hope on TODD LICKLITER as the head coach at Iowa. There is a distinct difference between those two entities and I've never understood why some people just don't get that concept. When I think of Iowa basketball, I think of the players. I think of the Troy Skinners, Jess Settles, Roy Marbles, Michael Paynes, Ed Hortons, Greg Brunners, et al that have played for Iowa first and foremost. I then think about the coaches that recruited and coached these kids at Iowa. I have never once in my life referred to a head coach at Iowa as being the end all be all of the program. The coaches are caretakers of our program, not the substance of the program. Iowa basketball is a group of players that I will forever cheer for. I never and I mean NEVER want them to lose a single game. I never pull for the other team even if I have money on them.

I am one of the loudest voices against Todd LIckliter at this point. Not because I dislike the man, but because we have just gone through the worst three year stretch in Iowa basketball history and no one is above the program. Not Lick, Not Barta. My leash is short because of our previous coach and for that I feel bad for Lick but in the end it is Lick's responsibility to rebuild a program that clearly was on shaky ground when he took over. He signed up for it and yet he made almost the exact same mistakes that our previous mid-major coach made. He hired very poor assistants with little to no contacts in the recruiting circuit and unless this changes in two weeks there isn't any sign that we are going to turn the corner anytime soon.

This sucks. I just finished playing noon ball and I always wear my Iowa shorts - I live in Nashville. I take **** from almost every player on the court for my shorts but no matter how bad we get, I will still wear them.

 

[JHHawk]

I'm not saying they all get lazy. But I feel like we've got guys with more heart and determination in them than just about anyone else.

But if that's the case, and there's never going to be any hope, let's just stop caring completely. Stop talking about it, there's no point to it all. Let's just go home and watch hockey and wrestling all winter, because Iowa basketball will never be good again (I'd have to imagine people thought the same thing with Iowa football before Fry, and again after Ferentz's first two seasons.)

Maybe I was too harsh ...not saying that Iowa is devoid of talent,or that they will not get better, only that we need to mix in a couple of quick athletes with our current crew, to allow us to match up a little better,especially on the defensive end on the perimeter. Diversity is the spice of life...Iowa bb needs a bit more spice.

 

[IAJay]

Saying that Iowa plays with more heart is like saying you have the most beautiful wife on the planet.

Exactly. I swear some people think Iowa works harder than other teams simply because they are less talented than everyone. That thought process combined with Payne being a white point guard pretty much means he is always going to be a "scrappy bulldog" who always tries harder than the opposing point guard.

 

[tm3308]

Maybe I was too harsh ...not saying that Iowa is devoid of talent,or that they will not get better, only that we need to mix in a couple of quick athletes with our current crew, to allow us to match up a little better,especially on the defensive end on the perimeter. Diversity is the spice of life...Iowa bb needs a bit more spice.

That's what I've been saying for several months now. They really aren't that far away. Just one or two players could make all the difference in the world right now.