Analysis: Do Stars Matter in Recruiting and Where Does Iowa Fit In?

I have a strong sense that Kirk's personality costs us a lot of 4 star recruits. He has demonstrated very low tolerance for "startdom". I'm guessing he tells kids straight to their faces that they're all equal on the team, they all compete for playing time, they will need to develop, they will follow the rules, twitter is a dirty word, etc. etc. I bet he is super easy to negative recruit against. Hell he probably practically negs himself if he's open with recruits.

He's entitled to run a tight ship, its his program. But there is a vast chasm between where Kirk is likely at and these coaches that want to be best buds with the players and promise them the world whether they can deliver or not. I bet Kirk is the very reason we lose out on a not-insignificant number of recruits.
 
westender said:
When do they get to add the extra coach? Any idea who that might be and what area of coverage?
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A punting coach. :)

I kid.

I think they can add on beginning today. We have a press conference with KF tomorrow. Could find out then.
 
CJHawkeye said:
I have a strong sense that Kirk's personality costs us a lot of 4 star recruits. He has demonstrated very low tolerance for "startdom". I'm guessing he tells kids straight to their faces that they're all equal on the team, they all compete for playing time, they will need to develop, they will follow the rules, twitter is a dirty word, etc. etc. I bet he is super easy to negative recruit against. Hell he probably practically negs himself if he's open with recruits.

He's entitled to run a tight ship, its his program. But there is a vast chasm between where Kirk is likely at and these coaches that want to be best buds with the players and promise them the world whether they can deliver or not. I bet Kirk is the very reason we lose out on a not-insignificant number of recruits.
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Well, I do think Kirk recruits for character more than many coaches do. That is something he has learned the hard way. In the mid 2000's there were a number of higher ranked players with questionable backgrounds that were signed. Kirk made the mistake of thinking that Iowa was a place these kids could put some distance on problems back home. Their problems followed them and became a black eye for the program. Once bitten twice shy.
 
CJHawkeye said:
I have a strong sense that Kirk's personality costs us a lot of 4 star recruits. He has demonstrated very low tolerance for "startdom". I'm guessing he tells kids straight to their faces that they're all equal on the team, they all compete for playing time, they will need to develop, they will follow the rules, twitter is a dirty word, etc. etc. I bet he is super easy to negative recruit against. Hell he probably practically negs himself if he's open with recruits.

He's entitled to run a tight ship, its his program. But there is a vast chasm between where Kirk is likely at and these coaches that want to be best buds with the players and promise them the world whether they can deliver or not. I bet Kirk is the very reason we lose out on a not-insignificant number of recruits.
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Part of the culture & fit we so often hear about. Might explain to some degree why he has in large part backed away from certain geographical areas that are widely recognized as rich with talent.
 
CJHawkeye said:
I have a strong sense that Kirk's personality costs us a lot of 4 star recruits. He has demonstrated very low tolerance for "startdom". I'm guessing he tells kids straight to their faces that they're all equal on the team, they all compete for playing time, they will need to develop, they will follow the rules, twitter is a dirty word, etc. etc. I bet he is super easy to negative recruit against. Hell he probably practically negs himself if he's open with recruits.

He's entitled to run a tight ship, its his program. But there is a vast chasm between where Kirk is likely at and these coaches that want to be best buds with the players and promise them the world whether they can deliver or not. I bet Kirk is the very reason we lose out on a not-insignificant number of recruits.
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And I bet you have not one shred of first-hand experience with how he handles ANY recruits.
 
RobHowe said:
A look at how much recruiting stars matter and where Iowa fits in:

LINK
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Another reason that stars matter is that teams are getting younger across the country...because players are leaving early....they go pro or they get discouraged and leave the program ... So you see Iowa has a talent drain going into '19...they could be really really good...but they'll be 7-5 again. what do you think about that?
 
Don't doubt the staff works hard with recruiting. I know a lot of sales people that worked hard also but that didn't mean they achieved above average results.......have to have the people skills. I believe Kirk recognized the need for more resources to give to recruiting a few years ago and made some good moves with a couple of the people he brought in. Those people seem to have brought with them some new ideas and better relationship building skills to the staff.

It's my belief that Iowa can do better and should set the bar a little higher at times. Enjoyed the article.
 
I respect KF philosophy on "respecting" kids so much as to not offer to so many kids that you cant follow through, but at the same time, it appears that some would still end up in the MAC or 1-AA as we last minute steal those kids or sign a kid we couldnt offer a scholarship to in case another kid said no. Thats great, admirable, but.....i'd like to see it tweaked. Its not like 15-20 of these 4 and 5 star kids are just going to fall into our laps because we offer, but you need to offer to a lot more if you want to get 5-10. I wish we would quit trying to be so nice. Make ISU offer #'s and see who you get. Some OL, DB's, LB's, heck DT's now days, from the south with NFL aspirations might look into our NFL success and say, yea, ill sign with you. They wont if you dont offer. My only complaint, we should offer more like everyone else does and deal with that "problem" if it becomes one. If you get so many 4* and 5* recruits that you feel bad for other kids....then maybe its time to.....well....lets just say we should to more 4 and 5 * kids and let our reputation at their position reel at least a couple into the shore or a sniff at least.
 
Stars most certainly matter, especially at the skill positions. Look nor further than our skill position players and you will see why.
 
The way Iowa can develop players I’m ok with the recruiting rankings. I would prefer we get a few more skill players that can step in right away

But it all comes down to the offensive scheme. We don’t know what our WR can do cause they’re extra blockers for most of the game.

Change the scheme to be a little more wide open and i think you get some better players but more importantly Iowa would probably get more wins
 
proudhawkfan21 said:
I respect KF philosophy on "respecting" kids so much as to not offer to so many kids that you cant follow through, but at the same time, it appears that some would still end up in the MAC or 1-AA as we last minute steal those kids or sign a kid we couldnt offer a scholarship to in case another kid said no. Thats great, admirable, but.....i'd like to see it tweaked. Its not like 15-20 of these 4 and 5 star kids are just going to fall into our laps because we offer, but you need to offer to a lot more if you want to get 5-10. I wish we would quit trying to be so nice. Make ISU offer #'s and see who you get. Some OL, DB's, LB's, heck DT's now days, from the south with NFL aspirations might look into our NFL success and say, yea, ill sign with you. They wont if you dont offer. My only complaint, we should offer more like everyone else does and deal with that "problem" if it becomes one. If you get so many 4* and 5* recruits that you feel bad for other kids....then maybe its time to.....well....lets just say we should to more 4 and 5 * kids and let our reputation at their position reel at least a couple into the shore or a sniff at least.
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Some interesting thoughts. I guess the downside about greatly upping the # of offers to potential 4* and 5* players (aside from perhaps feeling disingenuous) is that extra attention takes away recruiting resources elsewhere. So perhaps you get a couple more big-timers, but perhaps the bulk of your recruiting class is a lower quality than it otherwise would be. So where is the priority: securing a couple top-end guys, or getting a bunch of solid guys who you know fit your system?

Relating to the early entries, it makes me less optimistic about next season (I was thinking 10+ wins), but it does create excitement in other ways. More Hawks to follow in the NFL, hopefully a boost in recruiting, and the opportunity to see some of the young guys next year. I would have loved to have the 4 early-entry players back next year, but congrats to them and best of luck.
 
SpiderRico said:
The comparison of our 2015 schedule to Wisky’s schedule this year needs to stop. While we missed Mich, OSU, and PSU in 2015, we played at Wisky, NW, Nebby, and ISU. Wisky and NW won 10 games, Nebby was a couple hail mary’s from winning 9 and ISU is always a tough game on the road. Was it murderer’s row? No. But it was head and shoulder’s tougher than Wisky’s this year...
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We also had Wisky, NW and Nebby on the road that 2015 season, as well as ISU. Still no "murderer's row", but it's not like our toughest games were at home, either.
 
CJHawkeye said:
I have a strong sense that Kirk's personality costs us a lot of 4 star recruits. He has demonstrated very low tolerance for "startdom". I'm guessing he tells kids straight to their faces that they're all equal on the team, they all compete for playing time, they will need to develop, they will follow the rules, twitter is a dirty word, etc. etc. I bet he is super easy to negative recruit against. Hell he probably practically negs himself if he's open with recruits.

He's entitled to run a tight ship, its his program. But there is a vast chasm between where Kirk is likely at and these coaches that want to be best buds with the players and promise them the world whether they can deliver or not. I bet Kirk is the very reason we lose out on a not-insignificant number of recruits.
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While it may not seem in his best interest or the best interest of the program to tell recruits this, I think its safe to say that any coach that doesn't at least hold their players to that standard once part of the program, either has very little success or doesn't have a job long.

I honestly don't think its negative portrays himself or the program. Players are either going to respect that or not buy into it. It may not appeal to those that are, shall we say, full of themselves and entitled, but I think its better than lying to a kid to get them to sign and then letting them see your true colors once practice starts.
 
CP87 said:
Some interesting thoughts. I guess the downside about greatly upping the # of offers to potential 4* and 5* players (aside from perhaps feeling disingenuous) is that extra attention takes away recruiting resources elsewhere. So perhaps you get a couple more big-timers, but perhaps the bulk of your recruiting class is a lower quality than it otherwise would be. So where is the priority: securing a couple top-end guys, or getting a bunch of solid guys who you know fit your system?

Relating to the early entries, it makes me less optimistic about next season (I was thinking 10+ wins), but it does create excitement in other ways. More Hawks to follow in the NFL, hopefully a boost in recruiting, and the opportunity to see some of the young guys next year. I would have loved to have the 4 early-entry players back next year, but congrats to them and best of luck.
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Agree on the excitement of Hawks in the NFL. Its getting to the point where you even have to be selective in which games to watch there are so many. Definitely a fan!

As to the quality of recruits, its simply the offer. Its a kicking of the tires to see if any interest is shown back. Invest a little more manpower into the efforts to mail, email or call a recruit in hopes of a response. Obviously the large majority wont be interested. We will still put most of our resources in the kids that show interest back. Possibly a few more of the big star kids will show interest. We arent talking a ton more i wouldnt think, but a handful? You tell me. How big of a difference would 3 Epenesa's make instead of just 1? Ill take 3 please. And a coke. Yes, id like those players super sized as well.
 
Stars do matter. But they are not the definitive answer to a players potential in college sports. However, you can't discount that the winning programs have more 4-5 star players than the wannabes.
 
The teams and fans that say stars don't matter are the ones that can't recruit top talent. If the Ferentz clan could recruit well, then we would be making a big deal about how they can get 4 star players. Since they can't, well stars don't matter here at Iowa. Look no further than our MAC level wide receiver group and you can see stars matter.
 
RobHowe said:
A punting coach. :)

I kid.

I think they can add on beginning today. We have a press conference with KF tomorrow. Could find out then.
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Rob, you are closer to the program than any of us. What gives with the punting? It's just not normal.
 
HawkGold said:
Rob, you are closer to the program than any of us. What gives with the punting? It's just not normal.
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I can remember a handful of seasons where punting has been sub-par. Like, up until recently, maybe three or four. To be fair, I was at Iowa for three of Reggie Roby's four seasons, so I am probably a bit spoiled.

Never, though, did we have several sub-par punting seasons in a row like we have seen the last couple of seasons. It's mind-boggling.
 
hawkeyebob62 said:
I can remember a handful of seasons where punting has been sub-par. Like, up until recently, maybe three or four. To be fair, I was at Iowa for three of Reggie Roby's four seasons, so I am probably a bit spoiled.

Never, though, did we have several sub-par punting seasons in a row like we have seen the last couple of seasons. It's mind-boggling.
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I just don't remember it being this bad for any one year. On a big team, no way they don't have a couple of guys who can bring it.
 
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