Alternate take on Freeh report

Billso

Billso

Well-Known Member
This may generate some knee-jerk hatred, but perhaps some thoughtful responses too:

The case against Joe Paterno: Weak to non-existent on the current record | Power Line

I'd posted a similar concern about President Spanier and was criticized for it: the actual facts in the report simply don't back up the scathing "findings" in the summary, regarding Paterno and Spanier (by contrast, they very much confirm Schulz and Curley should burn in hell).

Consensus journalism is never a healthy thing, any more than "consensus science". Both fields require skepticism and critical thinking at their very core.
 
There may not be evidence to convict him in a court of law, but his actions after incidents leave little doubt in my mind. If the incident in 1998 was "cleared" then why was the heir apparent, Sandusky, forced to retire. IF the extent of the incident in the shower wasn't known, then why was Sandusky told not to bring children to the facilities again.
 
theboat said:
There may not be evidence to convict him in a court of law, but his actions after incidents leave little doubt in my mind. If the incident in 1998 was "cleared" then why was the heir apparent, Sandusky, forced to retire. IF the extent of the incident in the shower wasn't known, then why was Sandusky told not to bring children to the facilities again.
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Agreed. It doesn't take a genius to connect the dots. The "hard evidence" may not be there, which, imo, only shows that these guys did a decent job of talking in code and keeping somewhat quiet.
 
But billso, how dare you ask for evidence and actual legal processes to play out in this case. Didn't you know everything associated with Paterno and thus PSU football must burn?

More information has always been needed to actually place any sort of judgement on Paterno's actions/inactions...however many are unwilling to wait for that.

See above.
 
The Freeh report says that the decision to have Sandusky retire was made before the 1998 incident.
 
The fact that outside law enforcement and the district attorney's office investigated the 1998 incident and decided to drop it,but somehow JoePa was supposed to go beyond them and somehow prosecute Sandusky himself has always bothered me.

Then Emmert and the NCAA decided that JoePa was responsible from 1998 forward,as evidenced by overturning game outcomes from that point forward,just cements in the publics eye that somehow JoePa covered up the 1998 incident.....when in fact it was investigated by law enforcement.

I think Freeh's gravitas as the former FBI director allowed him immense slack in drawing these conclusions from a public and NCAA eager for a public hanging.
Of course,with Erickson willing to accept the conclusions without any scrutiny, it made it very easy for the public and NCAA to drop the hammer.

As difficult as it would have been, PSU should have had Freeh wait until the trials were concluded and Schultz and the AD had testified....more info will come out,and it could leave PSU,NCAA and Freeh looking dumb.
 
Billso said:
This may generate some knee-jerk hatred, but perhaps some thoughtful responses too:

The case against Joe Paterno: Weak to non-existent on the current record | Power Line

I'd posted a similar concern about President Spanier and was criticized for it: the actual facts in the report simply don't back up the scathing "findings" in the summary, regarding Paterno and Spanier (by contrast, they very much confirm Schulz and Curley should burn in hell).

Consensus journalism is never a healthy thing, any more than "consensus science". Both fields require skepticism and critical thinking at their very core.
Click to expand...

I think this board is about plum out of thoughtful responses. It's over and done with and the actual games can't get here soon enough. This thing has been debated and hashed over about as much as it's going to and the camps are set and no one is going to move from one side to the other....either you think the administration knew what was going on and did their best to sweep it under the rug in order to protect the program and institution or you think they didn't. No amount of additional discussion or reports or anything is going to change that at this point.
 
Reality check here: Penn State AGREED to the penalties. AGREED. They didn't challenge the finding of the report and the NCAA.

This matter is closed. Paterno is dead. He's dead. The only thing left to be concerned about are the victims. Write about them for a change
 
Jopa ran the program the was used as a tool to rape little boys.

McQuerry told him what happened in 2001. That along with the 1998 allegations that Jopa knew about pretty much seals Jopas status as one of the villians in the PSU rape factory.

Please drop this Jopa is innocent nonsense.
 
I am looking forward to the Feds investigation into Joe's financial dealings with 2nd Mile board members

Report: Paterno Worked With The Second Mile On $125M Business Deal « CBS Chicago

Could be nothing other than coincidence. But when one tries to find what possible motive someone could have for not wanting to turn Sandusky in, after the 2001 incident at a minimum, very little makes sense other than trying to protect the image of the program and/or business tie ins that could have been damaged.
 
JHHawk said:
The fact that outside law enforcement and the district attorney's office investigated the 1998 incident and decided to drop it,but somehow JoePa was supposed to go beyond them and somehow prosecute Sandusky himself has always bothered me.

Then Emmert and the NCAA decided that JoePa was responsible from 1998 forward,as evidenced by overturning game outcomes from that point forward,just cements in the publics eye that somehow JoePa covered up the 1998 incident.....when in fact it was investigated by law enforcement.

I think Freeh's gravitas as the former FBI director allowed him immense slack in drawing these conclusions from a public and NCAA eager for a public hanging.
Of course,with Erickson willing to accept the conclusions without any scrutiny, it made it very easy for the public and NCAA to drop the hammer.

As difficult as it would have been, PSU should have had Freeh wait until the trials were concluded and Schultz and the AD had testified....more info will come out,and it could leave PSU,NCAA and Freeh looking dumb.
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You're going to cry over whether they took wins away from 1998 vs 2001? You're talking 24 wins. It doesn't really matter, he was involved at some point so who cares. It's not like it'll make a significant impact on anyone's life that those 24 extra wins were taken away. Why don't you talk to the victims and ask them how they feel about it?
 
IowaFan81 said:
You're going to cry over whether they took wins away from 1998 vs 2001? You're talking 24 wins. It doesn't really matter, he was involved at some point so who cares. It's not like it'll make a significant impact on anyone's life that those 24 extra wins were taken away. Why don't you talk to the victims and ask them how they feel about it?
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I was addressing the Freeh report,and commenting on this former prosecutors analysis of that report.
It was not the wins that mattered,but the implied guilt assigned to JoePa for not doing something after the 1998 incident,after law enforcement and the district attorney had done an investigation and did not pursue it.
I am just asking what exactly JoePa should have done in 1998 after law enforcement dropped the case? Should he have taken the law into his own hands? I want to know why he is held more responsible for that incident than the law enforcement and district attorneys office whose actual responsiblity it is to pursue criminal justice?
 
JHHawk said:
I want to know why he is held more responsible for that incident than the law enforcement and district attorneys office whose actual responsiblity it is to pursue criminal justice?
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I've had the same questions about what Paterno knew/should have done back in 1998; but only in the most technical sense because it doesn't really matter; by 2001 it was all surfacing again, and he didn't do enough - even by his own concession.
 
JHHawk said:
The fact that outside law enforcement and the district attorney's office investigated the 1998 incident and decided to drop it,but somehow JoePa was supposed to go beyond them and somehow prosecute Sandusky himself has always bothered me.

Then Emmert and the NCAA decided that JoePa was responsible from 1998 forward,as evidenced by overturning game outcomes from that point forward,just cements in the publics eye that somehow JoePa covered up the 1998 incident.....when in fact it was investigated by law enforcement.

I think Freeh's gravitas as the former FBI director allowed him immense slack in drawing these conclusions from a public and NCAA eager for a public hanging.
Of course,with Erickson willing to accept the conclusions without any scrutiny, it made it very easy for the public and NCAA to drop the hammer.

As difficult as it would have been, PSU should have had Freeh wait until the trials were concluded and Schultz and the AD had testified....more info will come out,and it could leave PSU,NCAA and Freeh looking dumb.
Click to expand...

JHHawk said:
I was addressing the Freeh report,and commenting on this former prosecutors analysis of that report.
It was not the wins that mattered,but the implied guilt assigned to JoePa for not doing something after the 1998 incident,after law enforcement and the district attorney had done an investigation and did not pursue it.
I am just asking what exactly JoePa should have done in 1998 after law enforcement dropped the case? Should he have taken the law into his own hands? I want to know why he is held more responsible for that incident than the law enforcement and district attorneys office whose actual responsiblity it is to pursue criminal justice?
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Go to this link and read page 39. http://www.thefreehreportonpsu.com/REPORT_FINAL_071212.pdf

Then come back and say that JoePa wasn't partially responsible from 1998. They should of at least denied him access to PSU facilities. Not let him use facilities until November 2011. He's not the only one guilty of not doing enough, but he is the most well-known and had the most power of any of the 4 whether people want to admit it or not.
 
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HawkeyesWin said:
Jopa ran the program the was used as a tool to rape little boys.

McQuerry told him what happened in 2001. That along with the 1998 allegations that Jopa knew about pretty much seals Jopas status as one of the villians in the PSU rape factory.

Please drop this Jopa is innocent nonsense.
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Mother F'ing THIS!!!!!!!


Seriously why is it that hard for people to understand?
 
hoffahawk said:
Mother F'ing THIS!!!!!!!


Seriously why is it that hard for people to understand?
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No $hit. I'm getting really tired of people parsing stuff and looking for little loopholes wherever they can. The bottom line is that Paterno was told in 2001 by a member of his own staff that he saw Sandusky anally raping a young boy in the showers. Their response was to continue letting him use the PSU facilities until November of 2011.

So please everyone, just stop with the 1998 bull$hit, or the "woe is me" stuff related to Paterno. Why anyone would try to or want to defend someone who was told that and still did nothing is beyond me.

So can we please just stop talking about it. It's over, nothing will ever change. And fall camp starts tomorrow!
 
SpiderRico said:
No $hit. I'm getting really tired of people parsing stuff and looking for little loopholes wherever they can. The bottom line is that Paterno was told in 2001 by a member of his own staff that he saw Sandusky anally raping a young boy in the showers. Their response was to continue letting him use the PSU facilities until November of 2011.

So please everyone, just stop with the 1998 bull$hit, or the "woe is me" stuff related to Paterno. Why anyone would try to or want to defend someone who was told that and still did nothing is beyond me.

So can we please just stop talking about it. It's over, nothing will ever change. And fall camp starts tomorrow!
Click to expand...

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. This is a coach, who supposedly had honor and integrity, who "Won the right way". At an absolute minimum, you kick off the campus a person who is seen raping children, and you never, ever let your yourself or your school be associated with them again. They banned an agent from the campus because he had like $400 of goodies for the players with him, and Penn St. can't have that on campus.....yet they don't mind letting a child rapist roam the campus??

This was about protecting the Penn St./Paterno image. Plain, and simple.
 
Parsing be damned.

This was a leadership failure at PSU. President, AD, JoePa. I think grad students will study this in terms of leadership, ethics, cost/benefit, and PR in the future.

I'm not sure I would necessarily agree with everything in the Freeh report, but there is enough there for me to do facepalms a thousand times over.



Total failure.
 
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