HawkleberryFinn
Well-Known Member
Look for more players to leave early. This will be Fant's last year. Good chance Wirfs and Epenesa will leave early too after year 3.
After Desmond King's Draft Debacle...
- Thread starter HawkleberryFinn
- Start date
HawkeyeHypnosis
Well-Known Member
I wish people would stop implying King screwed up. If you ask him or his mom, they would tell you otherwise.
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
I think it's more about other teammates seeing him lose out on $$ than King or his mom's opinions on the matter.
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
In all honesty, I hope these guys and others in the future are legitimately good enough to leave early.
Stanzi
Well-Known Member
Did he really lose out on that much though? I guess I don't know the difference between a 3rd and 5th round pick.
I really don't blame them for taking the money now, but a lot of people are correlating King's senior season with his drop in the draft. Sure, his stats were lower, but it's not like he got picked on by teams, considering they almost completely ignored his side of the field.
Minkah Fitzpatrick had an even quieter year this season and will still likely go in the first round. The difference? Fitzpatrick has King beat when it comes to athleticism and measurables. King wasn't going to shave a tenth of a second off his 40 time, or add an inch or two in height, or extend his wingspan by leaving early. Those are the reasons King dropped to the 5th round, because despite his ballhawking ability, physical outside play, and just general fantastic football instincts, he didn't have the measureables to wow scouts.
NFL teams won't look at a player's stats and say, "wow, that dude had a quiet year, better not take him" (well, maybe the Browns do...). There is an insane amount of film breakdown, interview processes, and the like to determine whether or not the guy is a fit for their team. If it really were a matter of stats, Blaine Gabbert wouldn't even have sniffed the 4th round. But because he was a big, mobile dude with a good arm, he got a first round shot.
Josh Jackson, on the other hand, does have the athleticism the scouts drool over, especially in a league where pass rushers and man coverage corners come at a premium. Could he stay and improve his zone skills and run support? Sure, but he still wouldn't have dropped like King did, barring an injury or complete drop-off in play.
Seth53
Well-Known Member
I really see no argument here....if you're ready and the pro's think you're ready, there's absolutely no reason to follow a misguided sense of loyalty to the institution by staying.
The player gave the school a lot. The school gave the player a lot. Call it even, say thank you, and move on.
The player gave the school a lot. The school gave the player a lot. Call it even, say thank you, and move on.
I'm not disagreeing with your second post, because King had definitely earned that right. But my point is he was going to drop no matter what.
SomersHawk
Well-Known Member
Believe it or not money is not the number one priority in everyone's life. I think Desmond will have enough to a squeeze by on. He finished what he set out to do and I'd bet he and his mom are very proud of that accomplishment with no regrets.
Like Akrum said after getting Bowl MVP and experiences after playing last college game "You can't pay for something like this".
Money comes and goes but experiences and the memories last a lifetime. I don't begrudge those that choose to leave early but have a greater respect for those that don't. It shows really great character to not grab the cash. I probably would have at that age...
Like Akrum said after getting Bowl MVP and experiences after playing last college game "You can't pay for something like this".
Money comes and goes but experiences and the memories last a lifetime. I don't begrudge those that choose to leave early but have a greater respect for those that don't. It shows really great character to not grab the cash. I probably would have at that age...
trj
Well-Known Member
You don’t know that. He got “exposed” at the Senior bowl. He leaves early and he’s not even at the Senior Bowl. From what I remember his measurables were decent and the only knock against him was that he wasn’t fluid when he turned his hips to run with guys.
All this is moot anyway. He had a solid rookie campaign and barring serious injury he will have an opportunity to play for a second contract.
WinOneThisCentury
Well-Known Member
He got bad advice to play in the Senior Bowl. They had enough film on him to determine what he could do. All he needed to do is perform at the combine and pro day...which i think he did if I remember correctly. Going to the senior bowl for the Thorpe winner was a mistake. Not much to gain, and plenty to lose.
guffus
Well-Known Member
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/nfl-draft-contract-values-2017-4
This is a good summary of what it costs when a player drops in the draft
Last year's top pick, Jared Goff, signed a contract worth $27.9 million, while the 12th pick received less than half of that at 12.8 million. In addition, only players in the first round received contracts that were at least 70% guaranteed.
Things really drop in the second round, where the average contract was worth about $5.1 million over four years ($1.3 million per year), according to Spotrac.com, but with only half of that guaranteed. The value of third-round contracts drops to $3.3 million, but takes an even bigger hit in guaranteed value, with the average contract worth just $756,000 in guaranteed money.
Once a player falls past the third round, most draft picks will sign a 4-year deal in the $2.4-2.9 million range. The only major difference late in the draft is the signing bonus, ranging from $400,000-600,000 in the fourth round to slightly more than $60,000 in the seventh round.
This is a good summary of what it costs when a player drops in the draft
Last year's top pick, Jared Goff, signed a contract worth $27.9 million, while the 12th pick received less than half of that at 12.8 million. In addition, only players in the first round received contracts that were at least 70% guaranteed.
Things really drop in the second round, where the average contract was worth about $5.1 million over four years ($1.3 million per year), according to Spotrac.com, but with only half of that guaranteed. The value of third-round contracts drops to $3.3 million, but takes an even bigger hit in guaranteed value, with the average contract worth just $756,000 in guaranteed money.
Once a player falls past the third round, most draft picks will sign a 4-year deal in the $2.4-2.9 million range. The only major difference late in the draft is the signing bonus, ranging from $400,000-600,000 in the fourth round to slightly more than $60,000 in the seventh round.
True. The other angle on it is time. You can't get that time back on the back end of his career most likely. The risk factor that injuries in football are is so huge and real that every year heck week to week check that they get is huge. The rookie contract that they get isn't what they used to be and the lower round gets don't get all that much. (compared to the Sam Bradford years)
Here's his salary breakdown as a 5th rd pick what he's locked into getting. If he's hurt or cut 280k is all he's guaranteed
https://overthecap.com/player/desmond-king/5737/
So for hypothetical comparisons sake here is William Jackson IIIs salary breakdown. He was taken at pick 24 in the first round in 2016. (maybe or maybe not where King could have been taken if he'd have left early)
https://overthecap.com/player/william-jackson-iii/4737
Now he's chosen to prorate a lot of his salary which is smart because if he's cut or hurt he'll still get that money. But look at the fully guaranteed $. Almost 9 mill compared to not even 300k.... And no matter how you cut it King could have made twice as much money in the same period of time and started making it a year earlier... It's hard to put a college degree above the dollars and cents to that extent but that's just me I guess.
guffus
Well-Known Member
So lets say hypothetically King would have been drafted in the 2nd round if he left early.
Then he would have got a 4 year contract worth around $5.1M with 50% guarunteed.
Being drafted in 5th round, you get a 4 year contract worth $2.6M but only $400k guarunteed.
If he ends up playing 4 years total, it probably cost him $2.5M, but at least he still makes $2.5M
But if he would have been cut after his rookie year, a 2nd round pick still has another $2M of his salary that was guarunteed. So that also would have cost him $2.5M, but he only would have made $800K total.
If he plays more than 4 years, no big deal. He will have plenty of money either way.
Then he would have got a 4 year contract worth around $5.1M with 50% guarunteed.
Being drafted in 5th round, you get a 4 year contract worth $2.6M but only $400k guarunteed.
If he ends up playing 4 years total, it probably cost him $2.5M, but at least he still makes $2.5M
But if he would have been cut after his rookie year, a 2nd round pick still has another $2M of his salary that was guarunteed. So that also would have cost him $2.5M, but he only would have made $800K total.
If he plays more than 4 years, no big deal. He will have plenty of money either way.
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homes
Well-Known Member
What is the evidence that King would have gone significantly higher in the draft if he'd have declared after his junior year? It seems like his measurables weren't up to NFL standards, which cost him in the eyes of some NFL brass. Would he have skipped the combine his junior year? Don't think that would have happened. His skills certainly didn't diminish in his senior year, as his rookie year has borne that out, he's every bit of the player now as he was 1-2 years ago. What is more amazing to me is how NFL teams make the same mistake year after year - they forget or ignore that someone is just a really good football player. I think that's how Philip Rivers described Desmond - something us Hawkeye fans collectively said, "And the sun also rises in the east".
My guess is that there are more "debacles" of guys coming out after their junior year and not making it in the NFL, than guys sticking around another year in college and suffering for that decision.
My guess is that there are more "debacles" of guys coming out after their junior year and not making it in the NFL, than guys sticking around another year in college and suffering for that decision.
Thawki
Well-Known Member
To whom is king accountable? Himself and his family, or the opinion of his friends and teammates? It really doesn’t matter what his friends think. It matters what he thinks. If it was important for him to get his degree in four years, or if you wanted to enjoy being on campus for another year, then he made the right move.
It is somewhat laughable to refer to the “King draft debacle”. Staying in school an extra year and graduating in four years and getting drafted anyway when year later is hardly a debacle, even if you didn’t get drafted quite the same spot you might’ve a year earlier. He did what he wanted to for his own reasons. Why does someone else have to judge that as a debacle?
tksirius
HN's Love Doctor
You care too much.
