InGoodCo
Well-Known Member
what about 2 times in 5 years?... or 2 out of 3? or back to back? Or possibly 3 straight? Cause this team is gonna be pretty decent again next year, so you are gonna have to change you're gauge on what's acceptable.
3 Straight Years of .500 or Better in the B10
- Thread starter HawkeyeMike23
- Start date
what about 2 times in 5 years?... or 2 out of 3? or back to back? Or possibly 3 straight? Cause this team is gonna be pretty decent again next year, so you are gonna have to change you're gauge on what's acceptable.
And i think it's kinda over the top to say 1 out of 5 when he was left with team that had zero chance of making it. Not making it this year should be considered 1 out of 3 as far as I'm concerned.
WindsorHawk
Well-Known Member
I agree. We should be applauding the NIT berth in his 2nd season...not counting it against him. That's utter nonsense.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
2 out of 5
3 out of 6 or 7
4 out of 8
Bottom line is if you can't get that done, it isn't good enough. The first 2 years are a wash, nobody was going anywhere with what was left. After those first 2 years basically I think you need to be making the NCAA's 2 out of 3 years, more than doable, and should be the absolute bottom of what we should accept at Iowa. Tom Davis was 3 out of 4 years (even better than the bar I'm setting and it was universally agreed by Hawkeye fans we should expect more). So Mr. Davis was sh!t canned for not doing enough by making it 3 out of 4 years and winning a first round game every year.
Now 16 years later we are supposed to accept less than what we fired a guy for? This isn't anything about Fran, and I would think this no matter who the coach was, 2 out of every 3 years is the bottom of what we should accept as fans. This isn't 5 years ago, and Fran has the program on good footing, stop acting like it is year 2 or 3, we are in year 5 for *ucks sake. Bottom line is he SHOULD be making the NCAA's and it looks like he will be making the NCAA's.
SnapBack2
Well-Known Member
This exactly...
SnapBack2
Well-Known Member
Vogs, I used to have more respect for you. But what you're doing in this thread is ridiculous. Others above (InGoodCo, PCHawk, Windsor) have pointed out reality, but you don't seem to get it.
I'm going to find the thread and post that you made after the UNI game, where you were basically calling for Fran's head. Then you start with this 1 out of 5 crap.
SnapBack2
Well-Known Member
Some DeanVogs quotes for you guys...
I guess we should hire that stud coach in Lincoln, Tim Miles. The guy who coaches the sub .500 team who lost to Incarnate Word.
Vogs, look... In my initial post, I just mentioned your name as someone who needs to eat some crow and admit you may have been jumping to conclusions about Fran. Just be a man and admit you were wrong instead of trying to defend yourself.
I guess we should hire that stud coach in Lincoln, Tim Miles. The guy who coaches the sub .500 team who lost to Incarnate Word.
Vogs, look... In my initial post, I just mentioned your name as someone who needs to eat some crow and admit you may have been jumping to conclusions about Fran. Just be a man and admit you were wrong instead of trying to defend yourself.
trj
Well-Known Member
^^^^^^^This is pretty much where I am at. There are things that frustrate me, that I simply do not get. Still wondering if a little bit of a staff shake-up may be warranted. A stronger recruiter with pipelines somewhere would probably be my suggestion. All that being said, Iowa basketball has beaten me down to the point where I do not have the patience anymore to bring in a new coach. Unless it is Calipari, Hoiberg or someone with a quick fix, I do not want to deal with ANOTHER COACH trying to implement his system, trying to develop recruiting ties, building relationships. Enough already with that stuff.
FM has done enough, imo, to to see if he can actually build something here.
HawkeyeMike23
Banned
This is not just about Dean, but so many posters judge Fran solely based on what happened during a span of 25 days out of four years. I know the ending to last season sucked, no one enjoyed that, but it created such a hangover for this fanbase and such a negative atmosphere on here. If you stopped the season after the Michigan game last year, no one could have any reasonable complaints about what Fran was doing here. It was steady, consistent improvement, rebuilding the program while the B10 was also at it's highest level in over a decade. Sometimes you need to step back and look at the big picture rather than just the result of the latest game.
When you have such a small sample size to work with you need to use the eye test and a little common sense instead of blindly looking at wins and loses. Last year's team was a legit top 15 team that fell apart. These things happen. Sometimes the coach is at fault and sometimes he's not. As hard as it is to bring in a coach capable of making us a top 15 team, it's hard to believe so many people are ready to throw it away so fast. Is it because they are so certain that the end of last year way on Fran? Is it that they are so certain that the next coach will get us there? Or is it because they just blindly use stats like 1 out of 5 tournament appeaarances?
Davis had a huge sample size and the eye test showed he was moving in the wrong direction. Not only that, but we had a "can't miss" hire lined up. We were a pretty bigtime program back then and it still backfired bad. Seems like a horrible gamble to start over again when Fran looks like he's so close.
Davis had a huge sample size and the eye test showed he was moving in the wrong direction. Not only that, but we had a "can't miss" hire lined up. We were a pretty bigtime program back then and it still backfired bad. Seems like a horrible gamble to start over again when Fran looks like he's so close.
I fully admit after the Minnesota and NW games that I thought the whole thing was going down in flames and I overreacted. Fran needs to make the NCAA tournament this year. They have responded nicely. Many of us, realistically or not, want Iowa to be good again quickly. 5 years is a long time, and the team has improved from absolute garbage to being decent. Fran deserves credit for that, but if they would have had another meltdown this year like last year, then yes I would have fully doubted his coaching abilities. I have no problem admitting I was wrong. Happy to do it as a matter of fact. I hope we keep winning.
1977Hawkeye
Well-Known Member
Exactly where I'm at.
Personally, for a guy who grew up through the Tom Davis years, it's not just that waiting 5 years for results seems like a long time, but it's also that Fran was preceded by Alford and Lick. So it had been over a decade of mediocre product. It's been rough, to put it mildly, and is hard to stay patient. Most of that time, with a few exceptions, there's been little or no reason to speculate on Iowa's NCAA Tournament hopes, because there were none.
Of course, I want more than "first four", NIT runs, etc. and I'm sure we all do, but maybe that will come in time if Fran can keep building this thing. That said, he has had us in the NCAA discussion each of the past few years and it looks like it will be 2 invites in a row, barring disaster, so I can't complain.
I sure am not going to call for Fran's head as long as he's getting us to the dance regularly, at any seed.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I had a meltdown after UNI, and that second half I felt like no NCAA team could have played that poorly. I quickly walked myself back from the ledge. I have been very consistent (besides after one game) that Fran couldn't be judged, nor should he be judged until the end of this year. After 5 years, it is more than fair to a$$es how a coach is doing and the state of the program at that point. Everything (besides a few post after the UNI debacle) I have said has always been based on judging him after 5 years.
It isn't a "rash" move to judge him after 5 years. If others think he shouldn't be judge after 5 years, fine that is your opinion. I don't know why some get sooooo defensive about taking a look at the state of a program after year 5 and start making judgements about the coach and his program at that point. Everyone is going to have different criteria, don't get your panties in a bunch if I don't agree with your criteria.
I don't think it's rash at all to judge after 5 seasons. I think it's rash to decide if a coach should be fired over a bounce or two, which is essentially what you would be doing. If you still haven't seen enough from Fran to make a decision, how can you decide based on a few more games? You say 2 out of every 3 years we should make it. Well if we don't make it this year and make it next year, it will be 2 out of 3.
I would be more willing to agree if we were barely missing the tournament but we were winning a bunch of close games against bad teams that had off nights, and getting blown out in the games we lost. But the last 3 years we have almost always looked like we belonged.
We are blowing out most bad teams and even some average one's. We are losing close games to teams that are shooting lights out against us. We've even beat some good teams this year.
To me there is a pretty big difference between having a year go as good as it possibly could and still not being good enough to get in, and having a tough year where you have a lot of teams hit game winners against you and lose an abnormal amount of close games like 2 years ago. If you can't understand the difference and look at big picture, I'm glad you're not our AD. Not that you would be much worse.
We are blowing out most bad teams and even some average one's. We are losing close games to teams that are shooting lights out against us. We've even beat some good teams this year.
To me there is a pretty big difference between having a year go as good as it possibly could and still not being good enough to get in, and having a tough year where you have a lot of teams hit game winners against you and lose an abnormal amount of close games like 2 years ago. If you can't understand the difference and look at big picture, I'm glad you're not our AD. Not that you would be much worse.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
Because at a certain point, not getting a bounce or two in every single game comes back to coaching. I think we have all felt that team has been "mentally weak" in closes games for sure. What is the stat, Iowa is like 9-20 in close games. I don't think you can just say that a team doesn't "get a bounce or two" when looking at 5 years. That to me sounds like Ferentz logic. I mean he thinks we were a bounce or two away from winning the B1G west.....that dog just don't hunt for me.
deanvogs
Well-Known Member
I would be 100000 X better than Bary Garta. I would have moved on from KF as soon as Iowa lost to Nebraska, and I'd have brought in a home run hire. This in turn would have sent a message to Fran, and he would have never lost the UNI game, I would have never lost my sh!t. Plus he is gonna make the NCAA so no harm no foul by me.
Once again, let me reiterate my main point. I would be a great AD.
I would be 100000 X better than Bary Garta. I would have moved on from KF as soon as Iowa lost to Nebraska, and I'd have brought in a home run hire. This in turn would have sent a message to Fran, and he would have never lost the UNI game, I would have never lost my sh!t. Plus he is gonna make the NCAA so no harm no foul by me.
Once again, let me reiterate my main point. I would be a great AD.
I could maybe agree with the first line of your post, but your last line os over the top.
SnapBack2
Well-Known Member
This is a fair post. You are definitely not the worst of the posters who haven't had Fran's back at times. But I do read your posts because I think they add value or make interesting points. So take it as a compliment that I called you out. I have always been a big picture guy, and think Fran deserves some credit.
I agree. He's too good of a poster to have such a negative opinion on Fran. That's why I've tried so hard to get him to see the light. My attempts have been futile.
