2020 Class reminds me of 2015 Class

[1977Hawkeye]

His temper is an embarrassment at times and I mostly hate it when it involves the media.... but I am never going to not want a fiery coach with an attitude. That's who I want. The asshole. The guy who doesn't give AF what you think about him or how he does things that just wants to win. Iowa's had way too many nice guys. I'm not calling Fran great, but you can't name too many great coaches that don't have tempers and aren't assholes.

Agreed. I think most great coaches are alpha males, more or less.

 

[Hawkfnntn]

Lol yep. I had myself talked into believing Fleming would be of the Matt Gatens mold(similar body types and supposedly he could shoot it) and Hutton being the big time lock down defender we all wanted(young Oladipo comparisons before he gained an offensive game). Boy was that a big swing and a miss on both fronts.

IKR I had same comparison for Fleming in my head too from what little I saw/heard of him. Dude wasn't even D1 material and couldn't hold Gatens jock frankly. But the kid was a stud in TN HS which should have meant something.

The biggest miss to me from that class was not getting Wagner to switch to football and stay at Iowa. That's where the most potential seemed to lie anyway.

 

[Northside Hawk]

Yeah, for me, the next level was basically the 1987-88 tournaments. Basically just a year or two, so obviously not the norm. I'm too young to remember Lute and the Final Four run, sadly.

I don't expect to be there all the time - just here and there would be nice. We had a shot in 2006 until NWST and then a few years ago where we were a projected 1 seed in January before the meltdown. And maybe 1992-93 until we lost Chris Street.

Our 1989 and 1993 teams were final four contenders before we lost Ray Thompson and Chris Street respectively.

We were frequently overseeded in the Alford era based on his success in the conference tournament, which is on thing he seemed to have a knack for (and may be our current man's biggest weakness)

 

[1977Hawkeye]

Our 1989 and 1993 teams were final four contenders before we lost Ray Thompson and Chris Street respectively.

We were frequently overseeded in the Alford era based on his success in the conference tournament, which is on thing he seemed to have a knack for (and may be our current man's biggest weakness)

I forgot about the 1989 team and Ray Thompson. Yeah, that team goes to the Sweet 16 at least if they have him. I think they would've faced #1 seed Georgetown if they had gotten that far. Not sure how that game goes but would've been fun. I remember that Iowa team winning @North Carolina on national TV.. Awesome.

True on Alford's teams. That 2006 team I was thinking 4-5 seed on them, but winning the BTT vaulted them to a 3. The committee always has placed too much emphasis on that IMO. One big weekend doesn't outweigh a full season in my mind. I thought one year Syracuse was a bubble team and most were thinking they were OUT if I remember right, but they won the Big East Tournament, and were handed a 5 seed. And shocker, they lost in the first round. LOL.

 

[PCHawk]

In my opinion, even if we make a run to the sweet 16 or elite 8 even, we are still on the same level. Winning a couple games in a tournament doesn't change the level you're on. I would say even if we won a conference title, we're still on the same level because one good season doesn't change your level.

Fran's level is within a couple games of the bubble either direction most years with an occasional really good year or really bad year sprinkled in. I don't see him, or 99% of other coaches, getting iowa to the next level where we are always easily in the tourney at a 2-5 seed.

 

[N8theGr8]

In my opinion, even if we make a run to the sweet 16 or elite 8 even, we are still on the same level. Winning a couple games in a tournament doesn't change the level you're on. I would say even if we won a conference title, we're still on the same level because one good season doesn't change your level.

Fran's level is within a couple games of the bubble either direction most years with an occasional really good year or really bad year sprinkled in. I don't see him, or 99% of other coaches, getting iowa to the next level where we are always easily in the tourney at a 2-5 seed.

I think you're kidding yourself if you think winning the B1G and making the elite 8 wouldn't change things. Fran doesn't need much, just needs a little push to get over the hump recruiting wise. If you're flaunting a conference title and top 10 national finishes, that probably swings a Tyler Ulis to Iowa. And once you get one or two of those guys, other top recruits from their AAU teams like to join the party. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but it seems to happen every year that someone gets the right guys and takes the next step.

Tony Bennett, and Dana Altman at Virginia and Oregon come to mind. They don't have any crazy recruiting classes in there early. Multiple classes at both schools without any 4 star talent. But they had some good seasons and finally started getting more of those 4 star guys which helped them keep winning until they eventually had a breakthrough year. From there, they got even more top recruits and had even more success that elevated the status of their programs. It's a viscous cycle but it can be broken. And it starts with one breakthrough.

 

[InGoodCo]

I think you're kidding yourself if you think winning the B1G and making the elite 8 wouldn't change things. Fran doesn't need much, just needs a little push to get over the hump recruiting wise. If you're flaunting a conference title and top 10 national finishes, that probably swings a Tyler Ulis to Iowa. And once you get one or two of those guys, other top recruits from their AAU teams like to join the party. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but it seems to happen every year that someone gets the right guys and takes the next step.

Tony Bennett, and Dana Altman at Virginia and Oregon come to mind. They don't have any crazy recruiting classes in there early. Multiple classes at both schools without any 4 star talent. But they had some good seasons and finally started getting more of those 4 star guys which helped them keep winning until they eventually had a breakthrough year. From there, they got even more top recruits and had even more success that elevated the status of their programs. It's a viscous cycle but it can be broken. And it starts with one breakthrough.

I think you are right ... I mean, like, let's say Iowa MADE the sweet 16 last year.... ya gotta imagine this class looks different right now? Maybe not? But ....there is some clout with that. I don't think it changes the directions that Cook and Moss took tho....so we'd have a similar team returning regardless THIS season. I think if Fran does knock down a door it will help in that regards. But I think what PC is saying, how far you go in the tournament is a crap shoot. Even the good programs bow out early....but they are consistently dancing and IMO, Iowa's gotta crawl before they can walk. Making the NCAA every season is target for me until that's a regular thing....which lately it has been, I'd like to see a string more of them but they need to play past the first weekend to really elevate what is considered a weakness (recruiting) and that might be all it will take.

 

[PCHawk]

I think you're kidding yourself if you think winning the B1G and making the elite 8 wouldn't change things. Fran doesn't need much, just needs a little push to get over the hump recruiting wise. If you're flaunting a conference title and top 10 national finishes, that probably swings a Tyler Ulis to Iowa. And once you get one or two of those guys, other top recruits from their AAU teams like to join the party. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but it seems to happen every year that someone gets the right guys and takes the next step.

Tony Bennett, and Dana Altman at Virginia and Oregon come to mind. They don't have any crazy recruiting classes in there early. Multiple classes at both schools without any 4 star talent. But they had some good seasons and finally started getting more of those 4 star guys which helped them keep winning until they eventually had a breakthrough year. From there, they got even more top recruits and had even more success that elevated the status of their programs. It's a viscous cycle but it can be broken. And it starts with one breakthrough.

It's very possible that one good season could be the springboard for the next level. That's not what I meant tho. I mean if we have one great season, then maintain status quo after that, I dont think we reached the next level as a program like a lit of people on here insinuate. I think it takes a few years of being better than what you were to "reach the next level.

Hell in football we finished in the top 8 three straight years and looked like we reached the next level, only to fall right back to the level we were before. Unless iowa has a hall of fame coach or a Lick like coach, we're going to be pretty much on the level we are now.

 

[hawks23]

I think the recruiting could take a jump to a next level with consistently getting to the tournament and then making a run to Elite 8 or better. I know money is exchanged at certain schools and that creates an unfair playing field for any team that isn't paying. See Arizona, Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, etc.

I do believe a recruit is looking at the current state of the program and making deep runs creates excitement/exposure that helps recruiting a huge deal. They want to be apart of that, IMO. Tried to create a small breakdown of last years Elite 8 teams and recruiting.

* Texas Tech got some stud transfers after making final four last year. Does that happen without the big run? They have 4 star recruit from California for 2020.
* Auburn has a 5 star recruit that had offer from Kentucky. The run last year didn't hurt. Bruce Pearl helps too.
* Purdue has two 4 star recruits for 2020. Elite 8 run last year. Remember all the Purdue fans that wanted Matt Painter fired? Was he a bad coach or did he just need the right players?

The other teams for Elite 8 were VIrginia, Duke, Kentucky, Mich St., Gonzaga. All fairly established basketball programs. Teams like Kansas and North Carolina didn't make it. Best players and still can't make it. Both with hall of fame coaches. My point is this isn't easy to get far in the tournament even for teams paying players. David vs Goliath in my mind. I don't believe we are ever going to get top recruits without having a magical type run in the tournament in today's environment. In state guys like Carlton and Xavier are the closest we get in most of these conversations. Need these types of players to breakthrough.

Out of those 8 teams. I feel like Texas Tech, Purdue, and Auburn were the outliers in the elite 8. Iowa needs to find a way to be one of those teams and then take advantage of it. If you can't recruit after an elite 8 run then I believe you have no sales ability as a coaching staff.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

It's very possible that one good season could be the springboard for the next level. That's not what I meant tho. I mean if we have one great season, then maintain status quo after that, I dont think we reached the next level as a program like a lit of people on here insinuate. I think it takes a few years of being better than what you were to "reach the next level.

Hell in football we finished in the top 8 three straight years and looked like we reached the next level, only to fall right back to the level we were before. Unless iowa has a hall of fame coach or a Lick like coach, we're going to be pretty much on the level we are now.

I think with football, did we not have some good assistants from 2002-04 that left for other jobs? Bielema, etc? I admit I don't follow the assistants as close, particularly in football. That recruited some of the talent we had on the 2002 team, etc. I do seem to recall also that the 2005 class was actually pretty highly rated so the previous years seemd to help for sure. Seemed there were some recruits in that class that didn't pan out, were head cases or whatever.. But there were also some guys like Tony Moeaki that hung around and made a pretty good impact in 2008 (or 09?).

But I generally agree that unless you're cheating, it takes more time for a program like Iowa to build a rep and start reeling in better recruits as a rule. People probably get sick of the Wisconsin comparisons, but they were really, really solid for years under Bo Ryan, but towards the end of his tenure, they were becoming more elite. That team with Frank Kaminsky, etc. - I thought those guys were gonna win it all. Lost to Duke in the title game but had a lead mid-way second half. They also beat that undefeated UK team. I'm not sure if their recruiting had picked up leading up to that, but it seemed obvious that program was gaining momentum. Didn't happen overnight, though. They had to be a Sweet 16 type program for a while first.

It makes me lament the meltdowns in certain years under Fran. Some real missed opportunities to make a splash if the team had finished decent and had a higher seed those years.

 

[PCHawk]

I think with football, did we not have some good assistants from 2002-04 that left for other jobs? Bielema, etc? I admit I don't follow the assistants as close, particularly in football. That recruited some of the talent we had on the 2002 team, etc. I do seem to recall also that the 2005 class was actually pretty highly rated so the previous years seemd to help for sure. Seemed there were some recruits in that class that didn't pan out, were head cases or whatever.. But there were also some guys like Tony Moeaki that hung around and made a pretty good impact in 2008 (or 09?).

But I generally agree that unless you're cheating, it takes more time for a program like Iowa to build a rep and start reeling in better recruits as a rule. People probably get sick of the Wisconsin comparisons, but they were really, really solid for years under Bo Ryan, but towards the end of his tenure, they were becoming more elite. That team with Frank Kaminsky, etc. - I thought those guys were gonna win it all. Lost to Duke in the title game but had a lead mid-way second half. They also beat that undefeated UK team. I'm not sure if their recruiting had picked up leading up to that, but it seemed obvious that program was gaining momentum. Didn't happen overnight, though. They had to be a Sweet 16 type program for a while first.

It makes me lament the meltdowns in certain years under Fran. Some real missed opportunities to make a splash if the team had finished decent and had a higher seed those years.

The 13 and 15 basketball years were a lot like the 05 and 10 teams in football. A chance to really improve the status of the program but it didnt work out.

 

[BryceC]

Let me throw out a few "what if's":

• What if Aaron White doesn't go from a 2-3* recruit to the program's #2 all time scorer? Most don't.
• What if Peter Jok doesn't get hurt and fall off everyone's radar, and goes to a blue blood instead of Iowa?
• What if Devyn Marble decided he didn't want to play for Lickliter just because his dad played at Iowa? He also really outperformed his "ranking" as well.
• What if Jarrod Uthoff didn't decide to leave Wisconsin?

No shots but I don't like this stuff. Every program can say stuff like this, either way. Look at it from an ISU perspective?

• What if Pollard didn't drive to MN in one night and hire a former player with no coaching experience and have it work out very well?
• What if an old friend didn't call Fred to tell him about Niang and how he should recruit him when he wasn't getting anything but mid major interest?
• What if Walton didn't commit to Michigan 5 minutes before Monte Morris, who then chose ISU?
• What if Lefty Moore didn't make impermissible phone calls to Peter Jok, causing ISU to stop recruiting him?
• What if ISU didn't make good connections to both MSU and Marquette, causing four very big contributors to transfer to ISU from there?
• What if Royce White didn't have his problem with flying and chose Kentucky instead?

You can go on and on with every program. They happened.

 

[1977Hawkeye]

No shots but I don't like this stuff. Every program can say stuff like this, either way. Look at it from an ISU perspective?

• What if Pollard didn't drive to MN in one night and hire a former player with no coaching experience and have it work out very well?
• What if an old friend didn't call Fred to tell him about Niang and how he should recruit him when he wasn't getting anything but mid major interest?
• What if Walton didn't commit to Michigan 5 minutes before Monte Morris, who then chose ISU?
• What if Lefty Moore didn't make impermissible phone calls to Peter Jok, causing ISU to stop recruiting him?
• What if ISU didn't make good connections to both MSU and Marquette, causing four very big contributors to transfer to ISU from there?
• What if Royce White didn't have his problem with flying and chose Kentucky instead?

You can go on and on with every program. They happened.

Yeah, and I conceded as much in my post. It definitely still counts.