'08 vs. '11 Comparisons

[ChiHawk7]

The more I think about it, the more this 2011 team reminds me of Iowa's situation going into the 2008 season. Now, I'm going with the assumption that Hyde will stick at FS and I'm also considering Morris, Binns and Daniels returning starters, even though most pundits will say we only have 5 returning starters. Let's take a look:

Returning Starters: King, Kroul, Edds, Fletcher, Greenwood
6 New Defensive Starters in '08:
2 DE: Clayborn, Ballard
2 LB: Angerer, Hunter
SS: Sash
CB: Spievey

Returning Starters: Daniels, Binns, Morris, Nielsen, Prater, Hyde
5 New Defensive Starters in '11 (lot of options):
DE: Lebron Daniel
DT: Davis/Bigach/Nardo/Alvis
LB: Kirksey/Hitchens
SS: Miller/Bernstine/Sleeper
CB: Lowery/Castillo

Now, looking at the list of new starters in '08, it's pretty tough to compare, considering all 6 of those guys will most likely be on NFL rosters next year (Hunter will be iffy). However, a lot of those guys didn't solidify themselves as starters in the spring of '08. Angerer and Coleman were both competing for Mike, and Angerer didn't win the job until the beginning of the season. Hunter was neck and neck with Tarpinian, and won the Will spot when Tarp got injured in camp. Spievey was a pleasant surprise and beat out Bernstine at corner, who was expected to start.

The point is there were a ton of unknowns about the '08 defense going into the season, but all of the guys that stepped up formed one of the top defenses in the country. With so many starting spots up for grabs, let's hope the competition makes all of these guys better so that whoever emerges as starters can keep the D a strength and not a weakness. Not to mention, we will have a lot of solid depth. I know we have a lot of unknowns, but with Norm's system and a lot of potential at the opening spots, who knows?

Offensively, our O-line will be a strength, as it was in '08. The running back situation is also very similar. We have 1 proven commodity at RB who showed flashes as a true freshman (much like Shonn Greene), but now will be expected to carry the load. We are relying heavily on our incoming freshman to provide depth at the position (in '08 we had Hampton, Brinson and Guillory coming in and all were expected to compete for carries, until Guillory transferred out).

Despite the fact that '08 had one of the top rushing attacks in Iowa history, people will probably say that they are more comfortable about our running back situation heading into '11 than they were at this time in '08, considering DJK had the most returning rushing yards and Greene was still working at a furniture store.

Let's hope the '11 squad can put it together and fill the voids at the open spots like '08, and hopefully close out the close games that the '08 team couldn't until the PSU game.

 

[Mac50702]

08 we had Shonn Greene enough said

 

[tm3308]

08 we had Shonn Greene enough said

Yeah, but who was saying that in April back then? Not to mention that Coker appears to be a very similar back.

 

[JonDMiller]

08 we had Shonn Greene enough said

The OL was just as important IMO. I think Coker has more pure RB skill than Greene, but as far as him learning to be as patient in the zone blocking scheme, as durable as Greene, etc, that remains to be seen as he is just entering his second year and Greene was a fourth year player.

I think this year's OL has a shot at being better than 2008, which was the 2nd best line of the KF era.

The offense is likely going to be the bell cow this year...and the defense may take a few more chances because of it, or at least more nickel or dime looks, bringing heat off the edge, etc...still have to stop the run tho

 

[theboat]

Yeah, but who was saying that in April back then? Not to mention that Coker appears to be a very similar back.

Wasn't Greene sitting at 300 lbs in April?

I can say that I was on the golf course in May and was telling an ISU friend of mine that he was gonna be good from remembering the way he ran before. Didn't expect Doak Walker though obviously. But it is pretty clear to say that Coker in April 2011 >>>>>> Greene in April 2008. I guess we will see how things play out from here.

 

[ChiHawk7]

08 we had Shonn Greene enough said

I think you're missing the whole point of my post. I'm not comparing the '11 team to the end result of '08; I'm comparing what the two teams looked like going INTO the season and how they had a lot of the same question marks. We didn't know that we would end up having the best RB in the country in April of '08, and we also didn't know that 6 unknowns on defense (Clayborn, Ballard, Angerer, Hunter, Sash and Spievey) would all end up being NFL caliber players. Despite the fact we have a lot of unknowns going into this season, they draw a lot of similarities to those same unknows we had going into the season in '08.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

The OL was just as important IMO. I think Coker has more pure RB skill than Greene, but as far as him learning to be as patient in the zone blocking scheme, as durable as Greene, etc, that remains to be seen as he is just entering his second year and Greene was a fourth year player.

I think this year's OL has a shot at being better than 2008, which was the 2nd best line of the KF era.

The offense is likely going to be the bell cow this year...and the defense may take a few more chances because of it, or at least more nickel or dime looks, bringing heat off the edge, etc...still have to stop the run tho

Hmmm..."more RB skill than Greene"...I'm assuming you mean that Coker can catch the ball out of the backfield. It's hard to compare Coker to Greene as a runner from my perspective as Shonn Greene was simply one of the best backs I've watched in college in a long time. He could run through you, juke you, and outrun you. And he was tough as nails. He made so many DB's hate 1st down...cause they knew he was getting the ball. I completely agree on Greene's patience, but he also exploded through the hole when it was there. I'm hoping Coker has that quickness...he showed glimpses of that in the Insight. Greene made so many significant gains out of completely nothing, reversing his field, etc...and his pad level at contact was just ridiculously low. I just haven't seen that from Coker. Maybe I missed what you meant by that. Care to elaborate?

 

[spudhawk]

Hmmm..."more RB skill than Greene"...I'm assuming you mean that Coker can catch the ball out of the backfield. It's hard to compare Coker to Greene as a runner from my perspective as Shonn Greene was simply one of the best backs I've watched in college in a long time. He could run through you, juke you, and outrun you. And he was tough as nails. He made so many DB's hate 1st down...cause they knew he was getting the ball. I completely agree on Greene's patience, but he also exploded through the hole when it was there. I'm hoping Coker has that quickness...he showed glimpses of that in the Insight. Greene made so many significant gains out of completely nothing, reversing his field, etc...and his pad level at contact was just ridiculously low. I just haven't seen that from Coker. Maybe I missed what you meant by that. Care to elaborate?

Coker will be fine if he is healthy because the O-line should be strong to either side, and center and left tackle are manned by elite (for Iowa's scheme) lineman. I also think Vandenberg as a first year starter will be more of an all around passing threat than Stanzi was in '08 relieving some of the burden on Coker. Iowa also has the potential for a devastating TE blocking duo in Herman and CJFed. This should be a much more balanced offense than the '08 unit.

 

[ICHawk24]

I'm expecting JVB to match Ricky's 2009 junior year in terms of overall value. He'll outdo Ricky's 17/15 TD/INT ratio, but may not be able to match the intangibles that Ricky had that year.

 

[tm3308]

Hmmm..."more RB skill than Greene"...I'm assuming you mean that Coker can catch the ball out of the backfield. It's hard to compare Coker to Greene as a runner from my perspective as Shonn Greene was simply one of the best backs I've watched in college in a long time. He could run through you, juke you, and outrun you. And he was tough as nails. He made so many DB's hate 1st down...cause they knew he was getting the ball. I completely agree on Greene's patience, but he also exploded through the hole when it was there. I'm hoping Coker has that quickness...he showed glimpses of that in the Insight. Greene made so many significant gains out of completely nothing, reversing his field, etc...and his pad level at contact was just ridiculously low. I just haven't seen that from Coker. Maybe I missed what you meant by that. Care to elaborate?

I think Coker is perhaps a bit more fluid of an athlete, particularly through the hips. Perhaps slightly quicker feet. He does run upright, but I don't think that's uncommon for a big back at this stage of their careers (Greene was an upright runner his first two years as well, and Adrian Peterson has been for years.). When he learns to get low, he's going to be something special.

 

[WinOneThisCentury]

I think Coker is perhaps a bit more fluid of an athlete, particularly through the hips. Perhaps slightly quicker feet. He does run upright, but I don't think that's uncommon for a big back at this stage of their careers (Greene was an upright runner his first two years as well, and Adrian Peterson has been for years.). When he learns to get low, he's going to be something special.

I'm not saying Coker can't develop into a Shonn Greene type runner, but to compare the two now, I'm not seeing that yet. Greene had such a feel for the running game that he always seemed to make the right cut at the right time...it was amazing to watch. Then he would absolutely punish people in the secondary. He looked to deliver the blow...not take it.

The real difference I see, and this may be developmental, is vision. I'm not sure Coker has enough carries yet to get that level of skill. Time will tell.

The reason I brought this up is Jon said he had more "pure RB skill than Greene"...and I wanted to understand what he meant by that. I don't get that comment.

 

[tm3308]

I'm not saying Coker can't develop into a Shonn Greene type runner, but to compare the two now, I'm not seeing that yet. Greene had such a feel for the running game that he always seemed to make the right cut at the right time...it was amazing to watch. Then he would absolutely punish people in the secondary. He looked to deliver the blow...not take it.

The real difference I see, and this may be developmental, is vision. I'm not sure Coker has enough carries yet to get that level of skill. Time will tell.

The reason I brought this up is Jon said he had more "pure RB skill than Greene"...and I wanted to understand what he meant by that. I don't get that comment.

I think basically Jon meant the sort of stuff that I outlined. Coker has more natural (physical) ability at the position. Vision usually comes with experience, as will getting a low center of gravity.

Coker isn't a better player than Greene right now, but because of his skill set, he can be when he puts it together.

 

[JHHawk]

I love Coker,but Shonn had the best,quickest feet on a 230lb rb ever at Iowa...hard to match him in that particular category.

Coming into 2008,we were settled at QB with returning starter JakeC.
We all know how that worked out...it cost us a game or two(Pitt,MSU) to figure it out.
This year, we have again have a clear leader at QB,an inexperienced Vandy.
Impossible to predict how this stuff shakes out,but the OP has some good parallels.

 

[homerHAWKeye777]

The more I think about it, the more this 2011 team reminds me of Iowa's situation going into the 2008 season. Now, I'm going with the assumption that Hyde will stick at FS and I'm also considering Morris, Binns and Daniels returning starters, even though most pundits will say we only have 5 returning starters. Let's take a look:

Returning Starters: King, Kroul, Edds, Fletcher, Greenwood
6 New Defensive Starters in '08:
2 DE: Clayborn, Ballard
2 LB: Angerer, Hunter
SS: Sash
CB: Spievey

Returning Starters: Daniels, Binns, Morris, Nielsen, Prater, Hyde
5 New Defensive Starters in '11 (lot of options):
DE: Lebron Daniel
DT: Davis/Bigach/Nardo/Alvis
LB: Kirksey/Hitchens
SS: Miller/Bernstine/Sleeper
CB: Lowery/Castillo

Now, looking at the list of new starters in '08, it's pretty tough to compare, considering all 6 of those guys will most likely be on NFL rosters next year (Hunter will be iffy). However, a lot of those guys didn't solidify themselves as starters in the spring of '08. Angerer and Coleman were both competing for Mike, and Angerer didn't win the job until the beginning of the season. Hunter was neck and neck with Tarpinian, and won the Will spot when Tarp got injured in camp. Spievey was a pleasant surprise and beat out Bernstine at corner, who was expected to start.

The point is there were a ton of unknowns about the '08 defense going into the season, but all of the guys that stepped up formed one of the top defenses in the country. With so many starting spots up for grabs, let's hope the competition makes all of these guys better so that whoever emerges as starters can keep the D a strength and not a weakness. Not to mention, we will have a lot of solid depth. I know we have a lot of unknowns, but with Norm's system and a lot of potential at the opening spots, who knows?

Offensively, our O-line will be a strength, as it was in '08. The running back situation is also very similar. We have 1 proven commodity at RB who showed flashes as a true freshman (much like Shonn Greene), but now will be expected to carry the load. We are relying heavily on our incoming freshman to provide depth at the position (in '08 we had Hampton, Brinson and Guillory coming in and all were expected to compete for carries, until Guillory transferred out).

Despite the fact that '08 had one of the top rushing attacks in Iowa history, people will probably say that they are more comfortable about our running back situation heading into '11 than they were at this time in '08, considering DJK had the most returning rushing yards and Greene was still working at a furniture store.

Let's hope the '11 squad can put it together and fill the voids at the open spots like '08, and hopefully close out the close games that the '08 team couldn't until the PSU game.

I'm one of those folks who believes that there are A LOT of parallels between the '08 and '11 squads too. However, a few corrections to your analysis must be made first ....

- Fletcher had prior starts ... however, he was not a regular starter prior to the '08 season.
- Dalton was a returner starter for the Hawks at SS ... however, he simply wasn't very good.
- Sash was something like the #3 SS during spring camp prior to the '08 season. At the time, Dalton and Tillison were ahead of him. Heck, if memory serves, Morrow was probably neck-and-neck with him too at the time ... although Morrow was slated more at FS. It wasn't really until 2-a-days that Sash really broke on the scene and pushed his way up to be a #2 at SS ... and then his quality play at the start of the season, combined with Dalton's lack of improvement, earned him the #1 spot.

Now to add on to your analysis ....

- In '08, Iowa had ZERO proven depth at DT. Norm had "talked up" Klug ... however, due to injuries, we hadn't yet seen what Klug was capable of. Similarly, Daniels had earned some nice buzz due to his early success in the weight room ... however, that was still no guarantee that that success would translate over to the field. All the same, when the season came, Klug played great and Daniels was pretty solid when helping to occasionally spell King.

- In '11, Iowa doesn't have much proven depth at DT ... however, at least Bigach and Nardo have seen more quality game reps than either of their '08 counterparts.

- From spring practice it was kinda hard to gauge how the LBs are truly faring. Obviously we know that Morris and Nielsen are high-ceiling guys ... however, it's hard to form much of an opinion at this point because Bruce Davis was just more recently back from injury and BOTH DiBona and Poggi were "rhabo" guys. My bet is that getting those guys back healthy, along with the infusion of the new guys from the '11 recruiting class ... the competition will only continue to heat up.