Question about the IHSAA
- Thread starter Seth53
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Fryowa
Administrator
The IHSAA is a cartel. It 100% ain't what you think it is and does not in any way put student athletes first. It's goal is to make money with as little amount of work as possible., and that is no exaggeration. I've been involved with high school sports in Iowa as an athlete, official, or coach every year since 1993.
The number one thing a lot of people don't know is the IHSAA has zero connection to the public "State of Iowa." The IHSAA is a private corporation contracted by the state to administer high school sports. They say they are a non-profit, but we all know what NGO non-profits are...cash cows for their boards and top employees. They have a very tiny number of employees who can't even come close to covering the proper amount of workload to do a good job for our kids. If they did they wouldn't have the huge salaries they do.
It's also the ONLY high school athletic association in the country that isn't part of the state government.
The IHSAA makes revenue in two (and only two) ways: 1) "advertising" revenue, and 2) post season ticket sales. Period.
So...how do you keep up with COLA and give your employees raises periodically? You charge people an assload to stream contests they can't see any other way, raise ticket prices every year, and add more nonsensical postseason contests.
You wanna know why almost every team "makes the playoffs" in almost every sport? It ain't because it's good for the athletes. It's because IHSAA LLC gets a cut of the gate from postseason games/matches. Sibley-Ocheydan and HMS made the basketball playoffs in NW Iowa...look them up on Bound. In fairness so did every team, including ones much worse than them. It's because the IHSAA gets the gate from those games.
The recently expanded HS football playoffs? Money grab. It's why you have top ranked, elite teams playing teams with a losing record in the first round of the playoffs. The most hilarious thing is that you have subpar, losing record teams taking pictures with a fancy, official playoff qualifier banner and then immediately getting beat 65-0 by Van Meter or West Lyon with a running clock in the 1st quarter. Yeeeaaahhh....you sure were deserving of the playoffs. Nothing against the kids, they play their hearts out no matter what, but come on...There are lots of schools with .500 records or worse walking around with "Playoff Qualifier" t-shirts their booster club made up.
Making the postseason should be something really good teams earn, not some dumb ass participation medal that everyone gets.
The IHSAA needed more money so they added a round of playoffs and disguised it as a good thing for schools. The streaming you have to pay for instead of being able to watch on public TV? Money...The reason the broadcast itself and the announcing is so horrible? It's because you get what you pay for, and the IHSAA takes the lowest bidder so they keep as much for themselves as they can. And don't get me started on pitch count rules, or the crony relationship between IHSSN (another private entity masquerading itself and a public one) and the IHSAA.
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MelroseHawkins
Well-Known Member
So in a nutshell, they are the NCAA of Iowa's high school sports?
Fryowa
Administrator
Yes, only the IHSAA is the guy on the street corner with a trench coat full of cheap Rolexes, whereas the NCAA is a hedge fund manager on the 78th floor somewhere in Manhattan.
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
I realize it's the IGHSAU, but it's no different. Wanted to go watch our HS play in the state VB tournament. $102 on tickets for my family. As a teacher, the VB girls in my class couldn't believe I was going. I said that I'm going to 1 game and that's it.
As for the IHSAA, what Fry said is correct. I've worked with them (not for them) for many years. The money grab is worse now than it's ever been. As for trying to get it "right", it's better than it's ever been.
It used to be the suits making all of the decisions.
Then they started bringing in school administrators to help with the decisions. They're clueless too.
Then they brought in coaches in as members of advisory committees. The coaches gave our viewpoints and the state did what they wanted, but hey, we got to say what we wanted to say.
Then they started to have the advisory committee members formally go out to coaches to see what they really want. It's how we got extra days pitching (it used to be a group of 4 athletes per session), then it went to year round full group pitching.
The coaches recently said that we'd trade 2 months for a month of hitting. Got it. Then went for 3 months of pitching for 2 months of hitting. They're now wanting our input on season length, etc. through the Iowa HS Baseball Coaches Ass'n.
Recently, the state has gone to using the IHSBCA rankings, that have been put out for a long time, to seed teams in districts, substates, and state. The coaches that put together the rankings send out a Google Form to every coach that's a member of the ass'n for input, call around to talk with coaches, etc. These get submitted to the state each week. As the end of the season gets closer, the state gets more involved as they have done their research as well. The state and ass'n work out the feasibility of geography of the tournament to try to keep the best away from each other as long as possible. Fry, I know you're in NW Iowa, not sure where, but you may know that last year, LeMars Gehlen, Kingsley-Pierson, and Remsen St. Mary's were 3 of the top 1A teams in the state. If lines were drawn on a map, they would be in the same district. As much as I'd like to see 2 of those be in their own class, with the system we've got, I think they should be split.
The coaches liked the system so well that Basketball and Football went to a similar system. The coaches I know seem to like it.
One thing that has helped is the new guys that are replacing the dinosaurs have coached in a world that the old IHSAA governed.
The thing that really pisses me off is the money. It's still about that. It's not just about ticket prices. A huge thing that's been around forever that keeps getting worse is the ties the state has with different sporting goods companies and manufacturers.
Ever have to use Spalding baseballs for the postseason? Ever agreed with the opposing coach and umpires to go ahead and use Diamonds instead? Think the state chose them because of the quality of the balls or is it the tens of thousands they got to use them?
Ever notice how every few years there are uniform changes? Rules regarding color, number sizes, amount of open space in basketball jerseys are some that are ridiculous.
Equipment keeps getting "changed" so we have to get new ever few years. We had to scrap all of our catching gear a few years ago because they had to have a stamp on them. Bats had minimal restrictions, then they had to go to -3, then they changed the maximum barrel size, then put BESR and BBCOR on them. The balls changed too. Helmets have changed. All happen with convenient timing. I wonder who profits from these changes. Hmm...
At least I coach at a school with an unlimited budget, as long as I don't want or need anything.
Fryowa
Administrator
We have a literal lifetime supply of Spaldings.
Our AD long before I started ordered 8 boxes one year because our coach at the time said he needed some for playoffs. We were good back then and had big numbers so we made it a few rounds and were good enough to host. Now we have less than 13 kids 9-12 and as long as this keeps up we ain't ever hosting a playoff game.
Anyway, two years ago I was in the equipment room and noticed flats of Spalding balls stacked to the frickin ceiling...turns out the AD who knows zilch about baseball just kept ordering the same 8 boxes every year and no one ever said anything. Now that we can use Diamonds post season, I have several hundred Spalding balls to use in practice till long after I quit. All I do now is order a few Diamonds for games and bullpen sessions since the Spaldings suck to pitch with.
I knew none of this, but am only somewhat surprised. From a distance it's always seemed to me the IHSAA is always slow to change or adopt new ideas. Even tho Iowa is supposedly the wrestling hotbed of the nation, many other states have had girls wrestling for many years. I always wondered why Iowa didn't. Then when boys wrestling coaches kept going to the authorities and trying to get the IHSAA to get something started, they kept getting turned down. So, eventually I believe the Iowa Officials Association or some group like that had to start organizing and holding their own tourneys because no state association would. Once the IHSAA realized how popular girls wrestling might become in Iowa, they finally jumped on board, but man, talk about lack of vision.
Seth53
Well-Known Member
Fry....does the IHSAA receive funds from the both the on-line streaming services connection fees, and, the (for example) Sukup and HyVee advertising?
I'll admit I pay to watch FB finals at the dome, wrestling and BB and some track.
I'm actually glad there's an outlet for these venues that I otherwise wouldn't have.
I'll admit I pay to watch FB finals at the dome, wrestling and BB and some track.
I'm actually glad there's an outlet for these venues that I otherwise wouldn't have.
Fryowa
Administrator
The money grab is the biggest problem, followed a VERY close second by pitch count rules. Pitch count rules were adopted in Iowa with absolutely no research...because it was a fad at the time and people thought it was innings killing kids' arms and not bad coaching/practicing.
Pitch count rules in Iowa are the final nail in the coffins of programs with small numbers. The IHSAA basically just copied the rules of New England & East Coast teams where they have 50 kids out for every grade level in every town of 25,000 playing spring, summer, and fall ball. They work for the Ankenys and West Lyons and St Marys of the world, but not for a school with 13 kids out total 9-12.
I have 1 kid who could pitch NAIA right now as a HS junior and another who can throw strikes. After that, nothing. If I could throw the two of them in rotation I’d win a few games here and there. But I can’t because I’m forced to ration those guys out to once a week each basically because the IHSAA decided they had to be en vogue ten years ago without doing any research.
When I was a senior in HS we threw the same two guys all year long in starting rotation with the other guys who relieved. Both pitched in college and I still see both of them frequently today. One is a doctor who STILL plays amateur ball at 43, and the other coaches and has no after effects or damage at all. It can be done. I’m not saying allow unlimited pitching, but there are a whole lot smarter rules out there that actually work.
99topdawg
Well-Known Member
Arms don't lie. If it hurts, take them out. If it doesn't hurt, keep them in. I've had kids that could throw complete games every other day, literally. I had a kid that could throw 2 innings max per day and couldn't throw for a few days. He went to a JUCO, was a closer, and signed with the White Sox. Had others that would be relievers at bigger schools. One that was a stud but could throw 80 pitches tops in a game and had to sit a week. Arms are built differently.
I think marathons and half-marathons should be outlawed and a mile count should be place on runners because people have heart attacks and die from running that far. Sounds stupid, but...
I'm lucky I have my 2 boys on the team I can send out there to get eaten by the wolves. If they violate the pitch count, we have to forfeit. We're already losing so... Also have those "I've always wanted to pitch" kids that go out there and have fun. If it wasn't for them, holy shit.
I went to HS with guys like you did that could throw forever. I was like that. If my arm hurt, keep throwing, it'll warm up and be fine...probably. Kids wonder how I can throw so much BP for so many years without my arm hurting. The difference between the guys we're talking about and the whipper-snappers from today is we played ball all the time and built up our arms when we were young. Them? They throw every May and June. No wonder they're arms are sore. And get off my lawn.
LoyalSon
Well-Known Member
Don't be a Sheryl. Opine all you want about pitch counts or how many teams should make the post-season, but lets clarify a few facts. The IHSAA is a non-profit organization, with membership consisting of Iowa public and private schools. Board members are elected by the membership and receive no compensation for their service.
FAQs | IHSAA
www.iahsaa.org
Also, very few state associations are part of state government.
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99topdawg
Well-Known Member
The members of the different committees, etc. are elected, but the directors make bank.Don't be a Sheryl. Opine all you want about pitch counts or how many teams should make the post-season, but lets clarify a few facts. The IHSAA is a non-profit organization, with membership consisting of Iowa public and private schools. Board members are elected by the membership and receive no compensation for their service.
FAQs | IHSAA
Also, very few state associations are part of state government.
Compensation
| Key Employees and Officers | Compensation | Related | Other |
|---|---|---|---|
| Thomas Keating (Executive Director) | $212,798 | $0 | $57,355 |
| Todd Tharp (Assistant Director) | $131,554 | $0 | $48,624 |
| Chad Elsberry (Assistant Director) | $119,642 | $0 | $41,324 |
| Jared Chizek (Assistant Director) | $107,787 | $0 | $39,526 |
| Andrew Umthun (Assistant Director) | $55,213 | $0 | $16,540 |
Fryowa
Administrator
Complete horseshit. I could call a shit sandwich a ham bun and it would still be a shit sandwich. Other than the 5 employees listed above, go ask the rest of their staff what they make and see what they tell you. LOLDon't be a Sheryl. Opine all you want about pitch counts or how many teams should make the post-season, but lets clarify a few facts. The IHSAA is a non-profit organization, with membership consisting of Iowa public and private schools. Board members are elected by the membership and receive no compensation for their service.
FAQs | IHSAA
Also, very few state associations are part of state government.
I'm guessing you're either an employee or have a friend/kid working there.
If you think a company calling itself a non-profit means it's not out to make money then you're either stupid or you haven't followed state, local, or federal politics at any point in your life. Like most things, I'm guessing it's a mixture of the two.
The IHSAA is a private corporation which is in business to make money. Period. The need it "fills" is filled in 49 other states by a state entity which has oversight from and accountability to elected officials and state budget overseers. The IHSAA has none of that and that's how they want it. Their "partnership" with Al DeBolt and his minions at IHSSN is legally questionable at best, and reminiscent of east coast mob rackets at worst.
Your "facts" aren't facts. They're what's called euphemisms. Look that word up.
Fryowa
Administrator
Holy shit...I've never thought of doing that before.
There's times when that could've helped with certain things.
Fryowa
Administrator
My senior team went to state with those 2 guys pitching 90%+ of our innings. And you're right...I grew up with them and other buddies on that team and from the time we were in elementary school we were throwing baseballs all over hell from spring till winter.
My arm never gave me an ounce of trouble all through HS or college (I wasn't a pitcher though, to be fair). The only time it ever started hurting is after years of marathon BP sessions. My shoulder's hosed now from hundreds of thousands of 30-40 mph pitches from 35'. At one point I coached HS JV (so I got all the BP duty) and my son's rec league for 4 years at the same time so I was gassed every night. I envy that you don't have issues...enjoy that!!!
Wouldn't change it for the world and I ain't having surgery because if my son ever blesses me with grandkids I'm not taking the chance that surgery might leave me not able to throw. Those kids are (hopefully) gonna to play catch with their grandpa someday. After that maybe I'll think about it.
LoyalSon
Well-Known Member
Wow, and this is the "Moderated Forum". I don't have a dog in this fight, so I'm not going to spend my day arguing. You are simply wrong about "49 other states."
You are also wrong to imply that the IHSAA gets a cut of sales by IHSSN. In fact, the IHSAA has sued to prevent the IHSSN from charging to view its championship events.
I'm not here to defend the IHSAA (or especially the IHSSN), just the importance of using facts to make your case. Over and out, and GO HAWKS!
Fryowa
Administrator
Iowa is the only state with separate girls and boys unions, and the only state without publicly-administered athletics governance. There are states with privately operated associations, but they either govern private and parochial schools, or by optional membership. Iowa has no public athletics association, period. No oversight and a token "association" with the state of Iowa. The IHSAA is a private monopoly. Dollars are what drive their decisions because that's what determines the size of their paychecks. Public administration, for all its pitfalls, doesn't have that. When youth are involved with no other choices in the matter, it shouldn't be up to a private company to make decisions and rulings.
You are confusing NFHS membership (again, a private company) with the public/private debate. You know why the NFHS is against secondary athletic associations? Ask yourself how the NFHS and its management make their six figures every year. It ain't through taxes or donations, amigo. And it ain't because they're looking out for American high school kids.
And again, you obviously aren't close to the situation with IHSSN or dealt with DeBolt. That beef wasn't about charging money no matter what Tharpe or any of those guys say in the paper, it was about wanting a piece of the pie.
