Traveling/Cartwright "foul"

[EddyP]

How in the hell can a ref overrule a call when the ref making the call is standing a foot in front of the play. A guy comes clear from the baseline and says no it is a foul. I'm guessing it has something to do with some gay ref protocol where one ref can overrule another ref because he is designated as king ref or something. I'm not even saying it was correct or incorrect, only that the guy that made the call was standing right in front of the play. Stupid.

 

[tweeterhawk]

I think it was obvious the nearest ref was blocked from seeing Cartwright's hand across the back of the player's head; the baseline ref had a better view and (I hate to say it) helped to correct the call.

God, I hate losing to The Vulture.

 

[bcl20]

I still think Basabe barely touched if at all and even if he did. If that's a foul, the play where he was yanked down was absolutely a foul. He drains one free throw there we win. But I guess you can't call fouls at the end of regulation or something stupid like that.

 

[racerhawk]

Argh. I agree. Stupid.

Perhaps a couple of years go by, and Bo Ryan can't get homer ref action in a road game at Carver. Hey, I can dream...

 

[tweeterhawk]

I still think Basabe barely touched if at all and even if he did. If that's a foul, the play where he was yanked down was absolutely a foul. He drains one free throw there we win. But I guess you can't call fouls at the end of regulation or something stupid like that.

Agree. Terrible time for the stripes to swallow their whistle. Leuer got away with murder.

 

[EddyP]

I think it was obvious the nearest ref was blocked from seeing Cartwright's hand across the back of the player's head; the baseline ref had a better view and (I hate to say it) helped to correct the call.

God, I hate losing to The Vulture.

I guess I'm not getting how he was blocked as he was standing right in front of the play. If you are standing right in front of the play YOU have the best possible position to make the call not some guy standing on the baseline. This should not have been overruled. Not ultimately why they lost but just tired of seeing stupid sh!t like this from the officials.

 

[knighthawk13]

It would have been a bad no call had they went with the travel call, but it would be nice to have a bad call go our way for once.

 

[BALDIES7980]

Bryce barely touched Taylor on that foul but he did. Taylor couldn't have traveled because he never had the ball under control. He sold the foul on his flop and just about screwed up.

 

[EddyP]

Look, I'm not mad about the call what annoys the sh!t out of me is that a guy makes a call that is standing right in front of the play and some guy clear across the floor comes over and overrules him after the Wisky bench goes nuts. That is what I am mad about. Stick with the call, you made it. Own it. But no, we have to see leather face jump up and down and get his way. Whatever.

 

[MedHawk08]

The refs got that one wrong IMO as the contact seemed minimal and did not cause him to fall. But, keeping things in perspective, the travel call on Leuer seemed like a bad call too. Bottom line is the refs did not cost us the game.

 

[EddyP]

The refs got that one wrong IMO as the contact seemed minimal and did not cause him to fall. But, keeping things in perspective, the travel call on Leuer seemed like a bad call too. Bottom line is the refs did not cost us the game.

No doubt, but hey this is a message board. You can point to a number of different things in a game this tight, only reason I mentioned it was because of the overrule. Bottom line is don't let it get that tight where a call like that matters.

 

[DuffMan]

Soooo you're advocating for officials to not communicate or share information during the game? That's kind of an odd opinion, most people I know think it's a good sign when officials communicate well with each other in an effort to get a call correct?

Just so there is no confusion one official really doesn't "over rule" another (unless you are Eddie Hightower). If one official has information that he/she thinks is helpful to the official who makes the call they will share that information, and leave it up to the original official to either change the call or stick with what he originally called.

The wife was out of town and I was pretty far into a twelver of Sierra Nevada and my recollection might be tainted but if I remember correctly the lead official didn't come running in with a foul. He came in, they talked, and then came out of the conversation with a foul (which was the right call).

As another poster said it certainly wasn't a travel as the Wisky player didn't have possession of the ball when he went to the floor.

 

[tweeterhawk]

I guess I'm not getting how he was blocked as he was standing right in front of the play. If you are standing right in front of the play YOU have the best possible position to make the call not some guy standing on the baseline. This should not have been overruled. Not ultimately why they lost but just tired of seeing stupid sh!t like this from the officials.

The lead ref saw the player leap for the ball and come down. The contact that was called by the trailing ref was on the other side of the Wisconsin player's head (and shoulder area, apparently), away from the lead ref, and likely could not have been seen unless the lead ref had X-ray vision. We all know only Ed Hightower possesses that in the Big 10.

I hated the call, especially the point it came in the game, and replays seemed inconclusive whether there was contact or whether it was anything but trifling or outside the normal run of play. Did the Wisconsin player go down as a result of contact from Cartwright, or was he going down because of the high inbounds pass and an awkward leap and landing? Really hard to tell from replay from multiple angles. At this point it doesn't matter.

 

[HawkI101]

Duffman is right. Officials should talk, and no one was overruled. When multiple officials blow the whistle, then the one closest to the ball makes the call and if another ref blew his whistle and agrees with the call he doesn't say anything, if he has a different call then they discuss and try to make the correct call.

Last nights call was correct. The game was physical and I don't mind that. Don't get mad that wisky wasn't called for more fouls in the post because we were hammering away too.

Also, there is definitely a difference in contact in the post and contact on a person who is airborne. Any little contact (and yes Cartwright's was little) will throw you off balance if you are airborne.

 

[EddyP]

Duffman is right. Officials should talk, and no one was overruled. When multiple officials blow the whistle, then the one closest to the ball makes the call and if another ref blew his whistle and agrees with the call he doesn't say anything, if he has a different call then they discuss and try to make the correct call.

Last nights call was correct. The game was physical and I don't mind that. Don't get mad that wisky wasn't called for more fouls in the post because we were hammering away too.

Also, there is definitely a difference in contact in the post and contact on a person who is airborne. Any little contact (and yes Cartwright's was little) will throw you off balance if you are airborne.

Duffman is wrong. Yes, officials should talk but an official under the basket should not be calling a foul when there is an official right in front of the play. Let me help you guys out here. It is no different than a play underneath the basket where an official calls a travel(he is on the baseline) and a guy clear out at half court blows his whistle stating he saw a foul before the travel. The guy at half court has no business making a foul call where he is.

 

[Iowafarmgirl]

Streetball man. if you're bleeding you get a foul. If you break a bone, you get a free throw. Keep it real.

 

[HawkI101]

Duffman is wrong. Yes, officials should talk but an official under the basket should not be calling a foul when there is an official right in front of the play. Let me help you guys out here. It is no different than a play underneath the basket where an official calls a travel(he is on the baseline) and a guy clear out at half court blows his whistle stating he saw a foul before the travel. The guy at half court has no business making a foul call where he is.

That is ridiculous. Since when does an official have no right to make a call. It doesn't matter how far away he was. I can't believe that official called Leur for traveling in the middle of the lane. He was 40 feet away from him. The guy 10 feet away under the basket should have made that call. The distance an official is away doesn't matter. If you see it you call it.

 

[Not4cy]

That is ridiculous. Since when does an official have no right to make a call. It doesn't matter how far away he was. I can't believe that official called Leur for traveling in the middle of the lane. He was 40 feet away from him. The guy 10 feet away under the basket should have made that call. The distance an official is away doesn't matter. If you see it you call it.

WOW!!! Would you consider this working as a team?? I am an official in the CIML in Des Moines and you have certain areas that you are concentrating at (Some areas are considered gray areas, areas that will overlap with another official and you possibly can have a double whistle. Most fans only watch the ball. Officials can't watch the ball unless it is in your primary area. They have an area that they are concentrating on. I didn't have a problem with that call being a Travel or a foul but I don't understand how the Lead official (official on the baseline) could have had a better view at that play than the Trail official. No way under NO circumstances would I have allowed the Lead to over rule my call when I am 2 feet from the play in question. That is NOT working as a team and makes all 3 officials look like idiots.

 

[HawkI101]

WOW!!! Would you consider this working as a team?? I am an official in the CIML in Des Moines and you have certain areas that you are concentrating at (Some areas are considered gray areas, areas that will overlap with another official and you possibly can have a double whistle. Most fans only watch the ball. Officials can't watch the ball unless it is in your primary area. They have an area that they are concentrating on. I didn't have a problem with that call being a Travel or a foul but I don't understand how the Lead official (official on the baseline) could have had a better view at that play than the Trail official. No way under NO circumstances would I have allowed the Lead to over rule my call when I am 2 feet from the play in question. That is NOT working as a team and makes all 3 officials look like idiots.

I too officiate in the CIML and have done numerous state tournaments. I would not feel threatened at all that my partner saw the play different as I, as apparently you would. I thought they looked like professionals in making sure they had the right call. Too many officials are like you and don't want to think they made an incorrect call.

 

[Not4cy]

I too officiate in the CIML and have done numerous state tournaments. I would not feel threatened at all that my partner saw the play different as I, as apparently you would. I thought they looked like professionals in making sure they had the right call. Too many officials are like you and don't want to think they made an incorrect call.

This is simply not true. I believe in TEAM WORK! We live and die as a TEAM! There is absolutely no way, that an official 40 feet from the play can see the play better than an official that is 2 feet from the play unless of course you are EDDIE HIGHTOWER and are going to completely RULE THE COURT! If that is the case, then if I was the trail official, I would have taken off my whistle and told him,"No need for me to be officiating this court because you can see the entire court yourself."

I have no problem with calls being overruled in an area that we both possibly could be looking at. But when an official DIALS a call in from 1/2 a court away to overrule a call that an official already made 2 feet from the play, that is simply NOT TEAMWORK and you my friend are obvioulsy one of those officials that thinks he is the BIG TIME and will own the court!

We call those officials "AT&T LONG DISTANCE". That is actually a quote from Randy Heimmerman, a Big 10/Big 12 official that I learned how to officiate from.